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Now on the other side of this coin, We have
Companies that keep cut off criteria for hiring, and teachers who use this fact to force/brainwash the students to study the shit that doesn't matter ie welding etc etc, companies who look for graduates of engineering stream where the syllabus is shit as mentioned above so students have no choice but to take the degree
Now top it off with financial troubles, impending student loan lack of self confidence and bad English and this is what u get.
So the point I am trying to make is it is not the fault of the students ...well not completely it's the system that is broken.
If the companies were to change their policies on recruitment and say "we don't care about degree, we don't care about marks we will hire you if u r good at coding"
I don't know weather your company follows such rules or not but just wanted to put it out there
Besides students are kids and when we are unable to rectify our flaws it is redundant to expect the same out of them. -
I'm self-taught. Been studying for 3 years and unfortunately most (some big companies say degree or experience) companies require a bachelors degree here in the US. I've just focused on getting my hands dirty with projects while also doing theory work. I try not to focus on just language mechanics and instead focus on universal tools and mythologies like version control, TDD, design patterns, algorithms/ data structured, ect. I don't want to be only helpful with the language but with all the other aspects that come with it. Also tutor in programming (good reinforcement and I get to solve different things).
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A lot of people think that self taught prorammers are cool, but they definitely lack strong CS foundational knowledge. You can be a "Pythonista" over a weekend, but to become a better developer, it takes a lot more than that. I know people hate college education, and that's justifiable to some extent, but you learn a lot too.
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@Algorithm I agree, however the CS curriculum can be taught with self study (although it's no walk in the park). I think the point of this post is that there lacks a balance... too much theory and no grounding on industry practices and mythologies. Theses can be picked up of course bit it takes time, energy and discipline just like the CS curriculum. And it seems like most grads think that once there release date is up it'll be a walk in the park after... but then they meet a different animal. Mathematics is valuable (I put time in that as well) but it's a tool just like a language and can be learned to tackle CS theory. I am not saying a degree is pointless, just stating the void grads have when they leave...but self taught programmers can have the void all the same missing the other piece that grads students have... so moral is whether you come from an institution or from a garage strive for both pieces.
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@dalastTomCruise I totally agree with you, mate. But some people just hates CS curriculum, because the truth is they don't have what it takes to truly understand CS theory, and then buy a $10 course on Udemy and think they've become some sort of "Programmer Gods" while they puke while solving fizz buzz problem.
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@Algorithm Definitely, the true test is if you enjoy the grit that comes with solving problems; while be forced to learn on the fly during the process. If you love that than the rest develops and you naturally build a need to understand more.
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@repstosd if they drop out companies will not hire them they won't even give the interview
To become an engineer (CS/IT) in India, you have to study:
1. 3 papers in Physics (2 mechanics, 1 optics)
2. 1 paper in Chemistry
3. 2 papers in English (1 grammar, 1 professional communication). Sometimes 3 papers will be there.
4. 6 papers in Mathematics (sequences, series, linear algebra, complex numbers and related stuff, vectors and 3D geometry, differential calculus, integral calculus, maxima/minima, differential equations, descrete mathematics)
5. 1 paper in Economics
6. 1 paper in Business Management
7. 1 paper in Engineering Drawing (drawing random nuts and bolts, locus of point etc)
8. 1 paper in Electronics
9. 1 paper in Mechanical Workshop (sheet metal, wooden work, moulding, metal casting, fitting, lathe machine, milling machine, various drills)
And when you jump in real life scenario, you encounter source/revision/version control, profilers, build server, automated build toolchains, scripts, refactoring, debugging, optimizations etc. As a matter of fact none of these are touched in the course.
Sure, they teach you a large set of algorithms, but they don't tell you when to prefer insertion sort over quick sort, quick sort over merge sort etc. They teach you Las Vegas and Monte Carlo algorithms, but they don't tell you that the randomizer in question should pass Die Hard test (and then you wonder why algorithm is not working as expected). They teach compiler theory, but you cannot write a simple parser after passing the course. They taught you multicore architecture and multicore programming, but you don't know how to detect and fix a race condition. You passed entire engineering course with flying colors, and yet you don't know ABC of debugging (I wish you encounter some notorious heisenbug really soon). They taught 2-3 programming languages, and yet you cannot explain simple variable declaration.
And then, they say that you should have knowledge of multiple fields. Oh well! you don't have any damn idea about your major, and now you are talking about knowledge in multiple fields?
What is the point of such education?
PS: I am tired of interviewing shitty candidates with flying colours in their marksheets. Go kids, learn some real stuff first, and then talk some random bullshit.
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