if human ingenuity is what gives humans value

and you get sick with dementia and can't think anymore

do you, as a human, have any value anymore?

people: Lets give up belief systems that assign intrinsic value to human life. Yay!

3 hours later...

people: Why don't people value human life?

I believe everyone is a child of God. The good part is everyone has value. That bad part is EVERYONE has value. Even the douche bags. It is a struggle. I hate praying for assholes. But they the ones that need it most. They have to live with themselves.

@Demolishun what systems were abandoned? If anything, I’d say it’s one of the reigning ways of thought is all about human value. With the consequence of every other living being becoming important based on their usefulness to humans.

Value for whom?

Society? No
that individual? Yes.

Qn is: who do you live for. Others or yourself

Human value is both objective and a luxury good.

The objective human value emerges in emergency situations. Only five more spots on the arc? A doctor is more useful than a nurse. The doctor can figure out the nurse's job.

Yet, in a society that is not threatened by imminent destruction, value will be extended to everyone. It is a luxury good a society develops when it is going well.

Maybe your value is your perception of yourself and others of you?
Define value first

@Demolishun "I believe everyone is a child of God."

i believe everyone is a child of the flying spaghetti monster, which created the universe 20 minutes ago

Human ingenuity isn't what gives human value.
Holy shit that would be such a horrible take

@SoldierOfCode finally someone is questioning where this bs assumption is coming from.

@SoldierOfCode your opinion on what gives humans value?

@tosensei couple this with your "dick earth" theory and I think you have something!

Well, since you can't prove a value system by definition, I'd say that the best approach to building one is regression.

theory: ingenuity is what makes me value people
implication: people with dementia aren't valuable
contradiction; I value people with dementia, therefore the theory is false.

it is possible that ingenuity is a component in my value system, but I concluded that it can't be the only one.

I really don't think that's true at all though, I'm friends with all kinds of idiots. It's much more likely that ingenuity has instrumental value, for example, in service of challenging me or offering a fresh perspective on shared knowledge both of which I tend to appreciate.

@lorentz hmmm ok. people with dementia don't have value to me due to bad events

once I thought all humans had value but that's not how people treated me so I was like "oh I must be wrong". and even if someone doesn't treat me well I could use ingenuity to get around it, therefore ingenuity gives value to humans. because it's valuable in me, it would be valuable in others, but to be fair I can't recall feeling like someone was lending me their ingenuity to a degree where I valued them

to me what's valuable in others is them actually doing actions to try to make my life better and those spiritual inclinations working out on some occasion and not just being useless participation trophy conman notions. but when I exhibited this trait to others it was not viewed as valuable by others, instead has some opposite effect, which seems to vary but its direction doesn't

@Demolishun hmm so I'm curious. so you just hang around with assholes? or how does that work in your faith and stuff?

@jestdotty if someone grieves me I try to pray they have better whatever they need. I won't let a crime go unanswered, but I will hope they get some kind of healing if they need it. Sometimes people just have bad days and I meet them on their bad days. Other times they are evil and don't care. I will remove people from my life they fit into the latter. But I won't wish ill on them. Only what would pass for justice if possible. That's kinda the theory. In practice I feel like a lot of people can just go fuck themselves.

I have to try and remember that: hurting people hurt people.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

This has never been more evident to me since 2020.

@Demolishun evil and don't care removed, got it

the Catholic school I went to never mentioned it. just proposed we all be sheep that believe unequivocally in the goodness of man. that's been a bad strategy for me

@jestdotty pretty sure Adam and Eve proved that men are fucked without salvation. I grew up learning all people were fundamentally screwed up. I just didn't realized how screwed up until fairly recently.