White people decided to rename female circumcision, a traditional practice that takes place among Khoisan, Nyakyusa and Khoekhoe people, to “female genital mutilation”.

The amount of suffering that white people caused to the Africans is immeasurable. And now, white people decide to export their “culture” to Africa, and to tell African women what they can and cannot do to their own private parts? For those of you who don’t know, it’s women circumcising other women.

Can whites just fuck off for once? Let African people write their own laws on their land, and practice their own culture.

If they choose to go to your country, that’s a different story. But as long as they practice their culture among themselves on their own land, fuck off!

Coming to the foreign land, enslave the people, policing everything from the language to the religion to genitalia, then patting themselves on the back and calling themselves “strong leaders”. Such a white people thing to do.

And so we have now 'winter events' in our town instead of 'christmas'.

(I can give you more examples)

But really it is not always 'white'... All people are racist it looks like.

It's ironic because the same white people can't agree to abolish circumcision, even though the arguments against it are more or less the same.

@Grumm it has nothing to do with racism. Imagine African people coming to your country and circumcising your women. You’ll be furious

@lorentz because it’s so easy to “abolish” “human rights violations” in “less-developed countries” using phosphor bombs in 2024, given you’re not the one who’s gonna live there afterwards.

white people aren't telling african women what _they_ can do with _their_ own private parts.

humanist people from all over the world are telling grown ups from a handful of african cultures that they can or cannot do with _the private parts of their children_

still not completely okay, but extremely distinct from the case you described.

@lorentz the arguments are somewhat different. because in one case, you're just cutting of a little flap of skin - and in the other case, you're cutting off a functional piece of sexual anatomy. to be actually comparable, male circumcision would have to cut off the whole tip.

@tosensei “humanist” people? More like white culture believers and their sympathizers. “Humanism” is a white invention. White people don’t have the monopoly on deciding what is humane and what isn’t, especially on the land that is not their own

Circumsition without a medical requirement is mutilation. You take a perfectly healthy creature and decide that you know better and start cutting parts off. That's not the same thing as "culture". No-circumsition is the default value and some "cultures" and religions simply decided to do something extra, which means the burden of proof is on them to show that It's necessary, which is not Something you should leave at "Well, we just like it this way" because that's how you get oppression, slavery and many other bad ideas like blood sacrifices. We're smart enough to learn and evolve beyond our mistakes and beliefs and we should celebrate that rather than defending "the old ways" under the guise of "culture". At the very least people should have the right to their bodily autonomy and they should be old enough and presented with sufficient data to decide on their own what they want to do with their bodies

@Hazarth it makes sense to me, but it’s not up to you to make rules on the land that is not yours.

The absolute maximum you have the right to do is to support African organizations active in Africa that are run by African people that happen to dislike female circumcision and want it gone from their own culture.

@Hazarth for sure, but that's just an opinion. If "developed" western countries could abolish childhood circumcision, then extending this now-universal consensus to african indigenous cultures would be defensible.

If western civilization can't reach a consensus on this but they attempt to enforce it on foreign countries, then it's not a humanist ideal extended to less developed regions, it's just a stronger country involving a weaker one in its internal confllicts.

@lorentz you see, isn’t it convenient that when Israeli people circumcise their children for religious reasons on their land, it’s antisemitism to call it wrong. But when African people circumcise their children on their land, it’s a different story!

@tosensei It's not the exact same thing, I don't think any two questions between men's and women's sexuality are ever exactly the same thing, there's always at least a cultural difference that we need to consider.

What I'm saying is that in both cases children are being mutilated for medically dubious benefit, and this is the core counterargument. If this was as sweeping a counterargument as we imagine it to be, it should be enough to ban circumcision in W. Europe.

@kiki I would hazard that if your nkurasefoo aunties are going at your minky with a razor then the probability that you dislike it and want it gone from your culture is approximately 1.

And furthermore I think the reason that circumcision isn't banned in developed countries is that children's rights aren't nearly as important per social consensus as we imagine them to be, and the sovereignty of the family unit usually takes precedence unless both the cultural context and rights as understood between individuals are against an internal family decision. So when we cast judgment on African countries, the only reason that their practice seems indefensible is that we apply our own cultural context, not just our notion of individual rights, onto the situation.

I don't think just because it's a woman it's ok for her to mutilate me or another woman

that would be a miss from me also

this is actually a really big problem in workplaces btw. like all this woke nonsense about women's rights makes men afraid of women, like the goody goody men who actually listen to it but ofc the men who are abusers as such would never be swayed by such empathetic pushes to begin with other than to find out how to masquerade better, but all the fixation on how men are bad results in HR entirely ignoring it when women are causing issues for other women at workplaces

and if you have any male bosses that shit is SO toxic to them. they fucking scram. they don't have the political clout to help you. if you ask for help you're just fucked

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I was gonna upcote you thinking this was an ostream-like post though. if Africans wanna mutilate themselves go for it. it's called a piercing in the west. someone else doing it to you though is fucked up

@lorentz shhh circumcision is beloved by the lizards. why can't you see?!

@jestdotty good point, but I added that one sentence about women doing it to other women just to intercept sexist arguments.

@jestdotty "The secret powers want it that way" is fast becoming my least favourite thought terminating cliche over "It is what it is". Do you really imagine that everyone is secretly vehemently against circumcision? Are you so far up your own ass that you can't imagine having a minority opinion so you must invent a secret council of aliens that supports everything you consider bad?

@tosensei I think circumcision is fucked up actually

I'm irrationally mad

stupid USA/Canada you're playing Russian roulette

you wanna feel mad about it?

an uncircumcised dick hoth feels better and makes the guy more sensitive so sex is more fun

it just ruins them

don't do it

maybe they'd jerk off addicted to porn less if they could actually feel something with their dick, instead of all that pants rubbing ruining the nerves over the years

ok I'm being too irrational about it but that's how I feel about it. I sound like a dude complaining that the women aren't virgins but it kinda feels like that. don't ruin a guy's dick what the fuck

@lorentz that's her entire life in a nutshell. She's the somewhat calmer, female version of AoK.

though I do agree with the premise that it's Africa's problem and if people are walking around involving themselves in problems that aren't theirs I would be very suspicious of ulterior motives

focus on your own shit and don't buy their propaganda

@lorentz what? no I'm making a joke because you said lizards were a Jewish conspiracy

circumcision is pushed and typical in USA because of Jewish doctors or some Jewish organization or something

it's really weird actually

again, I slept around... very upset dudes were cut. I asked why and they mentioned the Jews do it. I asked them if they were Jewish. not a single one was (other than the IDF guy I lost my virginity to I guess 😁... who was atheist ? but at least it made some sense). so why the hell?

whether the Internet is right that it was a Jewish doctor/org that normalized circumcision in USA I don't know but it's probably true. we could look it up if we want

at any rate it was a joke on purpose. the lizards, by your theory (even though by the lizard theory the Jews are not lizards), the lizards literally did it!

@jestdotty that is fair, I misread the tone entirely.

@jestdotty just for clarification: did you, in any way, interpret my previous comments as "male circumcision is okay"?

@tosensei I interpreted it as you saying it's fine because it's just the skin instead of the whole head

so you're saying it's ok and making an excuse for it because it's "not bad enough"

it's a violation, but because we "can't prove in a court of law that it degrades life unequivocally" then it's ok and no harm was done, which is an opinion and you still violated someone who couldn't meaningfully consent

If the only rebuttal to "you shouldn't slice off the clit of your young girls" is "no you don't understand, you're white" you're literal subhumans and shouldn't even be allowed to decide the brand of soda you drink.

I said what I said.

Also: I, of course, oppose male circumcision. It's a barbaric practice, no matter how you frame it, and should be allowed only for certified medical reasons

WITH THAT BEING SAID

If you can't tell the difference between "removing a piece of skin" and "literally choppping off an entire organ", you might want to consult a lawyer and ask your parents for compensation, as you might be genuinely retarded.

I am in favor of cutting body parts in general.

Fingers, clit, pp, ears, limbs, eyes, doesn't matter, just cut them off.

Scares makes us stronger

@kiki jews gets the free pass because they've been holocausted and they're not gipsies, homosexuals or communists

@IHateForALiving especially if she drink fanta. German beverage. Disguisting

@IHateForALiving fun fact but skin is technically an organ.