Now seriously, WHAT THE FUCK???
Every single time I have to work with people from a particular country [you have one guess. Yepp, that's the one], I see A-FUCKING-LOOOOOOT of manual work?!?

"can you reboot the server?"
-"sure, let me help you, sir" <20 minutes later> "done"

"can you unlock my account?"
-"yes, just a moment sir" <20 minutes later> "please check now"

"can you restart this environment w/ 200 instances?"
-"yes sir, let me check" <6 hours later> "please check now"
"you've missed 18 containers"
-"oh okay sir, will restart them now" <2hours later> "please check now"
[I am already OoO]

why is it that every time I have to work with you guys I am the one who is automating shit. How come you never think of/do any automata? You are fucking technitians, you should know how. WHY DO YOU ENJOY CLICKING ALL-DAY-LONG????

I'm serious. Why??? I'm struggling to understand...

The sound of *click* is just so satisfying.

Procastination tool can’t be build while procastinating

What's bothering me the most is that I've never seen this happening with folks from other countries. And I've worked with many of them :)

do you enjoy clicking?
Is this a job security thing?
Is automation a big no-no in your culture?
Are you afraid?
Are you too lazy?
WHAT IS IT????

@netikras most probably afraid and too lazy

@devTea idk.. They don't strike me as lazy...

@netikras Lazy people can be good at hiding that they're lazy.

Source: Me

To be fair, I actually encounter this way more than I'd like to admit. Heck, even in my own country.

The reason why people don't want to automate is pretty retarded but simple:

They don't want to spend an hour automating that will not be paid and later get paid for quick work.

To clarify, they won't get paid to automate and that will require a lot of time. Instead, they would gladly do repetitive tasks over and over again since they are sometimes not even click/focus intensive which means that you can do different things. Oh and a bonus? You get to bill client for 6, 100, 1500 hours instead of a few where automation handles it.

We've had developers from asia, brazil - they are too lazy. They won't move a finger more than it's necessary to complete the task. No matter what the task is - they won't move a finger if something is off OR could be optimized.

ps. There are some good people, but also there are bad ones...

@potata let me tell what happens.
Most of the developer wants to automate the process. But when we ask clients in so called first world countrt, they will say "there are others things to take care. Don't spent time here. So called business priority". And they will not even try to listen. Once they will know from some other companies in the same country that the process can be automated with initial cost but will save time later, than they will come bashing with the points that u pointed out.

Been there, done that.
Always look at both sides before making such points.

I've read that most software developers in India are incompetent, so I suppose clicking repetitive stuff is what they are more comfortable with.

It seems that there is huge gap in quality of colleges in there and they maybe don't have good unified test before graduation, so even if you can't develop software, you still graduate and then get job because of caste system or family connections. I remember a few rants in here from India that complained about useless coworkers being there just because it is their "birth right".

https://thehindubusinessline.com/in...

@shiv7071007 While it's valid points - I still don't get it why the business should pay for the manual labor.

If for example, the task can be automated and done within 30 minutes, why would a business pay for 10 hours of work?

To put that into perspective, our clients enjoy that we use envoyer for automated and seamless deployments in our projects. It's fast, non-breaking and reliable. Now, one of our clients decided to leave us and went to a different developer (don't know the country) which said: "Each deployment will take about 2 hours to complete as we need to make new links, pull data and migrate the system". So... After paying him 5 times, the client came back to us and it took us 5 min.

Do you know what was funny? We charged him around $10-$15 for those minutes while that developer took $80-$150 for 2 hours of work. Reaching exactly the same result.

So yes, I look at both sides but that still does not justify people doing manual work just because they get paid more.

@potata
- short-sighted mgmt
- unaware mgmg

these are the first 2 reasons that cross my mind

@potata u understand that price in the beginning while implementing the automation is higher than that of manual labor is high??
Because of the extra implementation and testing that automation is working fine..
Client don't want to pay for those hours.

I worked in a project where u have to test Rfid readers. My TL propose a plan to automate all those. But they didn't listen. They didn't gave a damn. Although he tried to make them understand that it will make their deliverable faster. But they rejected.
But my TL was on it. Since I was the buffer resource, he told me to work on it without knowing them. And team utilizes their free time and weekend on automation project. And one day same client came up with the idea of automation. Thank to my TL we were ready for it.
Now I will ask you who will pay for those extra hours and weekends? Nobody. But we did it.

@netikras It's about money. If client want automation developers will give them one. Because they pay for it. But if don't want it not all developers like to waste their weekends on such client.
And I participated in your rant because u pointed out to *specific country*. And most of suvh lousy client also from u know which countries.
As a developer, it's ethical responsibility that u can't generalize atleast that what I learn in my company.

@shiv7071007

Well then your TL was not a very bright one

1. Spend your extra hours automating stuff
2. do not tell anyone, as they have refused your automation proposal
3. let your automations do their job and save hours of time every day. Charge client as for manual work (as they have clearly said NO to automation)
4. use the saved time to either work withother/new clients, or to simply chill by the river bay with your team, laughing at idiot clients.

5. Once client realizes he wants automation -- charge him for all the hours you've spent creating one. Why the fuck would you disclose him that you already have one???

@netikras wao. I think u were the one who was speaking about extra charging problem.
We have a different mindset.
We were not doing this us. We were doing this for the project. Today when I am not in that project but when I saw my juniors that they are not going through the shit we went, it give more happiness.
And u don't know how charging a client works in service based company. U can't just go ask them. They are rules and common contracts and understanding. That's why there is separate department for manage these. If we developer start doing manager and finance work belive me, most of our client will go away. I, myself wouldnt listen a minute to their shit.

@shiv7071007 I might have a clue what's it like to be working in a developers' company with multiple clients :)

And no, I was not addressing an overcharging problem. I don't care about money that much. Time is my currency

@shiv7071007 That is the point of automation - not a short-term win but a long-term one.

This is the same as people say that testing does no good and just increases cost/labor time. While it's true at the start - long-term vision saves HOURS if not months of work.

In any case, I see your point but in reality - automation doesn't always need to be custom. It can be re-used, bought as a service or something.

@netikras Yea, management on their end wasn't very clever. Of course, there were our mistakes too but we tend not to hold on the client if he wants to go. We rather let them go and experience other situations. It doesn't always work out for them or us but...

ps. To be fair, if I were to work on projects that can be automated for all of my clients - I'd do that. Why? It will save me time and save them time/money. Yes, it's expensive but probably the best that can be offered. (yes, it depends on creating costs and maintenance but still, if possible - it's a way to go)

Well, you don't need to go to another country to understand. In our company we hired friends-of-friends-of-a-boss who actually LIKE clicking, it's easy not stressful and the only thing they can do.

So they actually **HATE** me when I automatise something because I'm taking away easy job from them, and that would force them to learn something useful (or be fired)

@netikras probably afraid that they will get fired if everything is automated

@pedjaaaa if you'll automate it, you'll be kept to maintain your automation.

But if I'LL automate it -- you'll be fired/reassigned and I'll be kept

@netikras I know, but explain that to them 😀

The smart money would be to automate the job, and just not say anything about it. They spend 8 hours automating the job, then bill you for 2-6 hours every time you need the task completed cause they're doing it "manually". Seems brilliant, albeit shady, to me.