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netikras1977463dIt depends on how much the jr can do. If he only knows the basics - I's give him the boring tasks at first. Writing tests, fixing some simple bug, implementing something very straight-forward. By the time I see he's getting goid at this and us already familiar with the project I'd give him more fun and challenging tasks, like debugging, implementing some less basic features. When I see he knows what he's doing I'd prolly ass him some long-lurkibg tasks noone has had time nor will to work on. If ge tackles them down and I ser he's learned how to solve problems by himself under time pressure I'd consider bumping him up to mids.
But yeah, the beginning depends on what you know and what you can do. Some people like pressuring juniors to the level of torture. And it works. I prefer a lighter touch, a more observing, constructive learning path. It builds a different kind of devs.
@netikras so like, no prepping and straight to code? won't you like , if you have hired him for a web dev , then won't you give him some material or course to build up their skills and then jump to code?
Don't get me wrong, your approach is better than most of companies i interned with, i just got to know about an mnc from a friend which "trains" students first like this
netikras1977463d@TitanLannister Nope.. It's not school any more :) If he asked then I could recommend some articles, books or docs on the topic in interest. Otherwise it's your own job to find the info you need to do the work.
We do ofc onboard the poor fellow: a few demos of the product in-action, a few Q/A whiteboard sessions to cover architecture, if required - code nuances and so. But as far as tech learnig material is concerned the junior is expected to find all the sources he needs. If he cannot or is stuck he could ask other devs to explain, to guide to the right direction (NOT to teach him the whole thing ofc).
@netikras hmm.. interesting, thanks for sharing experience, i think i have better expectations now.
One more thing : suppose you gave a task to fresher which requires some thinking and internet searching, but you also don't know if its really possible or not.
After a few hours , the fresher comes and declares that this task is not possible or would need drastic changes. What would be your response? And how many times like this before you get fed up and fire this guy xD
Because i don't think freshies raising false alarms to be uncommon. I myself try to research as much as possible, but one of my previous senior was so weird . He gave me the whole project,a list of changes that needs to be implemented , and said "read the code, make the changes, search the net , i am busy . Don't disturb me unless you are done"
(And complimentary question : are you hiring for an android/java dev :D ?)
@TitanLannister No, we don't do Android dev.
1. I'd ask why do you think it's not possible. Which vectors have you analysed and what outcome did you get from either of them suggesting the NOT_POSSIBLE end result.
2. If I know a few more possible approaches I'd hint them to you for further analysis.
3. If you come to me (#1 or after #2) and say it's not possible and I in fact know it is possible, I'd give a few hints on what you may have missed during your analysis. Maybe ask you to draw something on a whiteboard for better visualisation. I'd be eagerly waiting for that "A-HA!!" moment of yours. Only and only if I see that you're blind in the dark I'd help you out with a more throughout explanation of a possible approach I'd be using.
If you're constantly lost that would be a big fat red flag. I need people who can think more than people who can code well. Maybe I'd suggest some coding school, maybe some homework, maybe smth else - depending on your case.
If things do not change for the better over time, then maybe you'd be more useful in some other role/project? Maybe you yourself are not sure whether you want to be a dev..? Or perhaps you do have some personal issues at home you are dealing with that intervene with your concentration at work?
Only in the worst case I'd consider letting go of you.
@TitanLannister primarily - yes, he reports to me. But the further the less I expect him to approach me / report to me. I will be slowly pushing him away from me, to report to other teams, other folks until he learns it all and no longer needs me.
I will keep glancing over his code in reviews anyway to see how he's progressing. I'm not a babysitter. My job is to make us equally competent, not to overlook and point fingers all the time. There are times when jr has a better view on some problems and applies better approaches to solve them that I had come up with.
Generally I try to give him enough freedom to get lost, to think, to operate. The mandatory "reporting to only me" is there only at the beginning so I could evaluate him. Once I see what he's made of the "reporting" is phasing out and is being slowly replaced by pushing him to one or another direction in order for him to grow. The right tasks, the right topics, the right homework if needed - right where I think he needs to improve.
Ofc this is only possible if the team is NOT in survival mode and can afford learning. But then again, if they are hiring juniors I expect them to be in learning mode already :)