I think we need to change way how websites deliver themselves to its users. This HTML CSS JS clusterfuck is just a huge PITA in the ass.

What is a website?
It's an application where users find, communicate or share information, can buy or sell their penis pumps and loads of shady stuff.
Why must a website (the delivered application) be split into multiple languages/scripts and lots of HTTP requests?
In my opinion, PWA is a start to make us look at websites more like apps as we are used to on the machine, but they don't solve the mess.
Per my experience, many people working on websites regularly confuse what's executed on the server and what is on the client. They send data to the client via XHR, for example full DB tables of private data, just to then filter it in their beloved Array.filter function.
You can tell those people again and again and this is why I start thinking that the Web, as we know it, needs a big change.

  • 4
    What do you suggest we do instead of HTML, JS and CSS?

    If HTML/JS/CSS are such a clusterfuck why do people use them in hybrid applications?
  • 4
    Well, how do you propose we get the whole world to agree to a new standard?

    The current standard has been evolving since 1991 with growing pains along the way and changes are coming steadily but slowly.

    Replacing html and js completely is more or less impossible with so many parties involved.

    Web assembly is coming to remove some dependence on js but html will stay, there is just to much invested into it :)
  • 5
    @joas Don't try to find some logic in people's actions. They mostly do it because it's easier.
  • 8
    Html / CSS / JS is simple

    JS / CSS frameworks make it difficult.
  • 1
    @C0D4 I hella agree on that.

    @rutee07 would agree on your description of a site too.
  • 2
    Well, it gets slagged off, but I use PHP! Server Side. Only use JS for client side aesthetic bollox and nothing else, maybe a bit of ajax. PHP 7X rules! I don’t use css frameworks or any frameworks. Everything I do is hand coded and lean and fast. You don’t need CSS pre-processing in 2020 either. Get back to basics understand what you are doing and it’s essy to do fix and maintain!
  • 2
    @helloworld Definitely feel that CSS-PreProcessing thing. Since i discovered custom properties, i never had the urge to use anything other than css3 for styling
  • 1
    @Voxera I agree to the point you made, given the current state of the web, html can't be replaced entirely. But however, shouldn't adding higher levels of abstraction help?

    Lemme explain, we thought Java was irreplaceable, but then kotlin made an appearance, providing 100% interoperability with Java. Now the user need not know java to write code that run on jvm anymore, coz kotlin takes care of that.

    I think flutter for web, seems cool rn, although it's still in its early stages. If it succeeds, then user will only have to learn dart and flutter itself and need not worry about how it gets compiled down.
  • 1
    I'm mostly a backend developer and don't have any struggle with CSS / JS frameworks.

    I work with over 400 devs in a company and only frontend devs hating frameworks wich never learnt real programming or the ability to adapt their knowledge. I mean ... frontend is one of the fastest growing technology field.
  • 1
    @joas People use them in hybrid applications because of portability and graceful failure not because web tech is good. Anything running a web browser can show a web UI.
  • 1
    @raspark some such things are coming that compiles to a combination of html, js and wasm.

    Microsoft has one where you build pages in c# and others are in progress.

    But under the hood, html, js and wasm takes the place of jvm or clr.
  • 1
    @Voxera hopefully they are significantly better for devs. I just hope it doesn't turn out like jsp. Mixing java and html was a shit show, atleast the syntax was.
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  • 1
    @Voxera fuck. That's the last thing I wanted to see. Mixing html with c# 😒. Now I want to wash my eyes with bleach.
  • 2
    @raspark that part has been around for more than a decade in asp.net :)

    The only new part is that it can compile to a combo of html, js and wasm (webassembly) so it can run locally in the browser instead of using postback or adding js/typescript to the mix.

    Its called razor.

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