40
zemaitis
36d

This week Im firing a guy who I hired 5 weeks ago. I cant take it anymore. I setted up a nice environment for him and he keeps taking whole day sometimes two or three to do a 2 hour task. He came from electrical engineering background and never had a software dev job. As a person hes more creative type not logical based type. I dont have nor patience nor resources nor time to teach him basics that be could google but simply doesnt have the mindset to do. Sorry bill gates not everyone can learn how to code, or at least not everyone should.

Advice to other people hiring new hires: test the shit out of them before hiring, dont hire from gut. This guy was giving out a nerd vibe, but the only nerd thing that he has is nerdy puns, other than that as a software dev he know less than I did when I was 12 years old.

Comments
  • 17
    This sux..you can even do the proper tests and they will ace them, but underperform when given real assignments..

    If I was in charge of employment process.. people would run away.. xD
    I'd give them a computer with internet connection and timeframes for different tasks..some even unrealistic & weird demands so I could check how they cope..
    1) Do you know how to solve a rubik's cube? No, great. You have 30 mins to solve it.
    Yes? How about 4x4x4? No? Ok, solve this then..
    2) Here are instructions on how to set up your dev env (one of the most fucked up projects I have to set up), if you have any questions or don't know how to do something, ask for help.
    // Instructions are minimum, but with following steps and googling and or asking for helo should be done in 30mins..
    3) How is your english? Let's talk in english, tell me something about yourself..//cannot google shit or read docs if you don't understand basic english
    4) Page with a lot of js errors..fix this in notepad please.. //the weird one, to check their attention to details
    5) Any questions?

    Expected outcome:
    If you don't know how to do something, say so & try to google the solution or ask for help. Promptly, not after you botcher everything up!

    If some task seems weird and you don't see why it should be done (that way), speak up!

    I know this is weird, but techical interviews can be 'memorised', especially if you send out the topics..

    I don't care if you know the syntax for xy, but I do care about your attitude for solving (weird) problems.

    I'd rather see you try & fail but ask for help and do what you can to learn new stuff..

    There is nothing I hate more than people who are unable to admit they fucked up or something is above their (current) knowledge..

    You can always learn if you are willing, but not with the I know everything attitude..
  • 4
    Not a fan of 4, just because I would personally solve it by writing tests after ascertaining expected behavior and would want to see the same. Also windows 😋
  • 8
    Logical and creative are not excluding each other.

    You're the only one to blame here, or at least the process.

    I've get through multiples interviews, sometimes 4 for the same job, which is, IMHO, a waste of time.

    But not doing any interview is as dumb as making 4.

    IDK where you live, but in France we've got a "test period". During this one you can fire the person without any reason by respecting a delay based on the time passed in the enterprise, and the person can leave respecting a delay too.

    That's a neat mechanism so you do not take any risk if the person doesn't match the expectation.

    Also maybe you're taking thing too personally ?

    He's new, making social interaction is a great thing, especially when you're new in a team.

    What about pair-programming ? You do not have to teach him the basic, take a senior and bet on their abilities to communicate and learn from each other ? Maybe even mob-programming could be great.
  • 2
    @SortOfTested With the codebase we have..good luck with writing any tests.. o.O
    And this is exactly why I want to sort out people who do not have the patience to debug with limited tools & will to adapt..

    I got this project & was super yay about it..something new & exciting..coworkers were like: you know you've just stabbed yourself in a knee..with a longsword?!
    Turned out I kinda did, nothing is straightforward with it.. but since I love challenges, it's perfect for me..

    And this kind of people I need on this project, not the 'know alls' that will only point out the problems but offer no solutions except scratch everything and start new..

    We are working on moving everything to .net core..hopefully they will give enought time to do it right this time around & not just change the fw but do the same stupid mistakes all over again..

    My point is, if you start new, you can do everything properly, prepare the tests decide this is crap and rewrite everything..but if you need to fix something within existing spagetti code, you need patience & problem solving mindset & the will to not give up on the first try something doesn't make sense or work as expected.
  • 1
    Shit happens.
    It will be worse based on how distracting world can be these days and how demanding software development is.
  • 2
    I guess you have a reason to blame somebody - in this case, not hire, but HR. 👀
  • 1
    "other than that as a software dev he know less than I did when I was 12 years old" - you should've learned that at the interview.
  • 3
    I'm reminded of a place I worked where new folk had a 3 month trial.

    So many was perfect during the trial period..

    Then they became full time employees, with rights..

    Getting rid of them then, well.. you'd have better luck waiting for them to die of old age, than being able to fire them !
  • 1
    is 5 weeks really enough time to onboard someone who came from a different background? :/
  • 0
    was it ever made clear what's the estimated time to finish these tasks, or maybe where is the "way too fucking slow" line?
  • 1
    @Z-GOD we had jira and he knew what is expected of him. I bent over did my best to accommodate. He needs to start in entry level and only after 1-2 years I could hire him
  • 3
    Best devs I know are in no way nerds. The real socially incapable, pretentious nerds over engineer everything.

    Normal people understand the concept of practicality. They understand that things need done and need to be able to be passed off to the next guy. They understand not to be a dick just because they have a deep understanding of the field.

    And more importantly, they're able to communicate with a team and help build up the team.
  • 0
    Hire me :p
  • 1
  • 1
    Going through something similar right now except I don’t have the power to fire my colleague. Alas!

    At least you know you’re making the right decision. I hope it works out for you next time!
  • 0
    @sladuled
    I think you may want to revisit that. Even if you're not writing tests, unit test frameworks still provide an arbitrary execution env so you can test functions without bootstrapping the universe.

    Even with a spaghetti codebase, running the code gives you a symbolic entry point to diagnose the problem.
  • 0
    @zemaitis I won't disappoint you, that's why
  • 2
    @sladuled Amen my man. Having patience and passion for problem solving within as short amount of time as possible, as well as not giving up attitude. Thats what Im looking for. I admit it was my mistake offering a job to my friends ex classmate who I knew just moved in town. He did not have to break a single drop of swet to get here, hence the chill attitude. He was living in illusion created by me and was giving up after simplest problems because why bother, when Im there to save his ass?
  • 0
    @Maartz This is a rant and if you blame me for giving an opportunity to someone then fuck you. At least I created a job opening for 5 weeks and tought him bunch of shit as well as paid him. I dont need your assumptions when you dont know anything concrete.
  • 1
    @ishank-dev Your cv with 2000 words of which like 100 is actual description of your skill already dissapointed me. Stop trying so hard man and start working on actual projects. Participating in public events or internship should not be your cv highlight unless you are aiming for an entry level position. But probably thats my personal problem because I never had an opportunity to work with a skilled indian, the ones I worked with knew how to talk and memorize stuff, but not how to think. Thats why im biased. Anyways gl
  • 0
    @zemaitis I guess you have had bad luck with your past recruits so yeah you rightly said you are biased.
    Coming to my cv I am still in my final year of engineering, and most of the hackathons I went to I worked in a team and built prototypes that would solve a real world problem for that company.
    Apart from that I mostly spend time solving coding problems that requires a good knowledge of Data Structures and Algorithm so I don't really think I am the guy who memorises stuff, in fact I am anti of that.
    I did not ask for a job that was just a fun comment so no one is trying hard here :p
    Still I wish you all the best, your rant actually makes sense and I hope you get a good recruit this time.
  • 0
    @SortOfTested Ugh, I know.. :(
    Just can't get myself to actually try to make sense of this..things that I actually know how to test don't need testing (code that hasn't changed in ages) & the ones that need testing are..well..untestable & need rewriting (or maybe I'm just too dumb to see how to test this monstrosity).. Aaaagh, sometimes I reeeeaaallllly wish I could drop the NDA and just show this shit to someone outside and ask the opinion..because coworkers..well.. they don't want to get their hands dirty..or eyes.. :/
  • 0
    Just thought of it... what if the guy you're talking about happens to be reading this? Your description is fairly specific.
  • 3
    @zemaitis I blame you for being a complete asshole, a fucker, a bad recruiter, a bad teacher, you make a rant about your own stupidity. Good job, continue acting like a jerk.

    I make assumptions on whatever I want, and thanks for you response which comes assert my thoughts.
  • 1
    @Maartz This is a safe place to rant Karen. If I came here to dump a shit that was brewing in my intestines for 5 weeks then I will dump that shit so that I could move on with my life. If I rant here and my shit stinks because I didnt wrap it with flowers it doesnt mean that I act like a jerk in real life.

    Even the nicest person you know might get frustrated and might need to vent from time to time.

    If I was a jerk the guy would have left the first week. Instead he stayed 5 weeks, and wanted to stay even longer because he liked what he was doing. Problem was that we were moving too slow and I didnt have nor time nor patience nor money to pay him anymore, I realized that I need a dev with at least 1 years experience, not entry level. And apparently he was entry level, despite finishing a coding school that took 3 months to do.

    Anyways, fuck off with your opinion that you pulled out of your ass. If you cant even agree on simple facts then whats the point in even discussing with you.
  • 2
    @zemaitis Sorry this happened, it also sorry to the guy you hired. He probably feels awful. As a bootcamp grad, anyone coming out of bootcamp is most likely entry level and should be working with a partner or mentor for at least 6 months if not a year. :/
  • 1
    @zemaitis I just hope that you had told him your expectations before firing him.

    That way you have the leverage to do it and he has understanding what is going on and why did it happen.

    Some people change after you talk to them, if you already tried that then I can understand your decision.

    Not saying what you should do, just stating my point of view.
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