My arguments about Apple:
- "iPhone 12 camera can be better than anything else because it's more advanced, it has LiDAR and 10-bit codecs"
- "I can copy on my iPhone and paste on my MacBook and vice versa out of the box"
- "My Beats can seamlessly switch from playing from my MacBook to my iPhone to my Apple Watch. I can be exercising with only my Apple Watch and my Beats, no need for iPhone"
- "2K screen with nice colors in a 900g laptop is rare if you consider the price. Apple one is the cheapest one with that characteristics"
- "Apple Pay is convenient"
- "Fingerprint scanners fail with wet fingers no matter if it's ultrasonic or optical, LiDAR Face ID is objectively more secure than any camera-based unlock mechanism"
- "Stainless steel frame feels better than aluminum one"

I'm not saying Apple is the best. I'm not saying that Google Pay doesn't exist or that Apple Pay is better. I'm not saying that Apple has no downsides.

However, these are responses I get:
"But Apple IS crapple, immutably"
"Why are you even looking at apple crap if you want something good"

If you want to bash Apple, bash it for something real like that butterfly keyboard fails, unconventional AirPods shape that makes most people's ears hurt, screen coating fails on MacBooks, App Store commissions.

  • 1
    Not bashing Apple but I am just asking out of curiosity. How well does LiDAR Face ID work?

    Have you tested in while raining or any extreme condition? Some said LiDAR don't really work well on extreme weather condition , but I just wanted to see how it does in practical use.

    Finger print scanner don't work well when it is very cold or your finger is sweaty.
  • 2
    Ignore the hater/fan boy @uyouth. There is right tool for every job.
  • 0
    @mr-user Face ID somehow worked perfectly in snow shower. I live in Russia.
  • 7
    Apple fanboi detected!
    Shits gonna get real, when the Android Fanboi's wake up.

    🪑 🍿
  • 0

    Does it detect your face even when you wear a mask and glasses?

    I think the question is more about how Apple train their model rather than LiDAR technology.
  • 3

    I like Android personally but I would recommend Apple (if they could afford it) for other people who aren't geek.

    The matter of the fact is due to it Eco-system (can be taken as both good and bad),there are less problem in Apple product.

    Having less problem in Apple product is good because it mean I don't have to give them much tech support.

    Have you work remote tech support for Android device? It is horrible.

    Me : Go to setting and click Networks button.

    Other : I don't see the Network button , there is only connectivity button.

    Me : Yeah , click that connectivity button.
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    Q : Can you blame them, they need to keep the hype train going?

    A : Yes

    It is good that they are feeding us garbage , that mean there is a market for another OS. I am getting bore of Apple vs Android discussion.
  • 0
    @mr-user mask? No. Glasses? Yes, every time.
  • 3
    @mr-user I certainly prefer iPhones over their android counter parts, but I'm not a fan of the deep ecosystem.
    Sure iPhone to iPad handover is useful, and I'm sure up to a Mac makes life easier, I have to use edge on iphone to edge on windows to get a similar experience 🙃

    But the hype train left this particular station years ago, Apple stopped making new things and just started playing catch up instead 🙁

    I miss le jobs era where the hype train was more then a long ass presentation and a lack of anything to show for it.

    Oh and before anyone asks.
    - sent from iPhone!
  • 0

    I like Apple due to it deep Eco-system and how it is easy to give tech support to it.

    The thing which I hate the most is that you need dedicated software to transfer file from your pc to phone.

    If I know a person is curious and like to play around with devices. I recommend them Android.
  • 0
    Why does apple pay unavailable on my country 😔
  • 1
    Underrated rant
  • 2
    @Z-GOD you also present no arguments.
  • 0

    I don't agree that they are both overpriced. You can find the cheap variation of Android phone.

    Maybe you mean overpriced in a sense that they over promise but don't deliver? Even paying a dollar is overprice if they over promise.
  • 1
    Despite good engineering and integrations currently I think there have been really stupid business moves from Apple.

    I am concerned about the changes coming when Apple switches from intel to ARM in the MacBooks. Imagine running docker for development on ARM. Or running windows in virtual box. Or bootcamp gaming on windows with directx.

    They release so many models of a single type without meaningful names that I can’t keep up with which is higher spec or newer at a glance. Which is better an iPhone XS or iPhone XR? Which is better an iPad Air 3 or a iPad? Which iPads can I use pencil on and which generation pencil do I need?

    Or how they are shipping a USB C lightning cable with iPhone 12 but no brick to plug it in? I don’t have a bunch of USB c chargers hanging around.

    All of these scream “good engineers” with “bad product owners”.
  • 0
    @irene partly, this reminds me of decision making Samsung level. Apple, don't be like that!
  • 0
    1. fiar enuf, though I think the Xperia 1 mark 2 can also do that + more, though ok, that one *does* cost about 300 euros more...

    2. I suppose you mean with text? if so, fair enuf.

    3. Wireless audio sucks anyways... though I can convert my earbuds to wireless if I want to with LDAC support (so no silly sound quality issues) and use them with my watch (Garmin Fenix 5X Plus, though it can be done with the cheaper Garmin watches as well) just fine... then again, I wear a DAP with me anyways when I go excersise (and I don't care about the "yes but I can go light by leaving my phone - or DAP in my case - home" argument, I carry an entire camping set anyway).

    4. They do have nice panels, but nobody really bothers with em anyways since there are cheaper devices with the same visual quality.

    5. So is Garming Pay : >

    6. Never have this issue anyways, even with wet hands or *literally* underwater (hoozay watertight phone!)

    7. I agree.
  • 0
    @irene "despite good engineering"

    Ah yes, you mean those hilariously dumb engineering flaws they have in every device?

    I don't blame the engineers for that though, probs just some twit higher up that goes reeeeeeee if they don't make something a certain way.
  • 0
    One more thing that I forgot to mention was with Apple Music. I listen to indie and eclectic music generally. Which is a genre dominated by people that come from european descent. I would try to listen and in the middle of a set I would get a song of the wrong genre. I would look at my phone and it was a non-european American from a different genre. It was like Apple decided that the indie rock genre wasn't inclusive enough so they would push an artist that didn't fit based on skin colour; that is some racist shit. I don't care what shade someone's skin is if they are making music that I like but don't blast me with out-of-genre music because a genre isn't "diverse enough".
  • 1
    @FinlayDaG33k Every device has engineering flaws. They are just known flaws on Apple devices because Apple sells a ton of the same model so it is easier to see it among the consistency.

    If you pick up whatever the current HP Zbook is or Dell Inspiron, it will have engineering flaws but you won't find much info about it. It will be hard to find someone else online that has the same model and variant as you.
  • 0
    @irene that's why I specifically mentioned *dumb* engineering flaws...

    Like have you seen the heatsink on the macbook air 2019? Please don't tell me you're gonna put that away as "every device has engineering flaws"?

    Or that time the bckpanel of the screen literally came loose from the hinge because the exhaust was positioned in such a way it would cause the glue to melt?

    Or that time you could literally lose your entire phone signal... just by holding the damn thing?

    Or that time they re-used a certain power-delivery circuit for the GPU VRAM despite knowing it would cause the device to become unstable (and have done so TWO TIMES)?

    Or ofc that entire butterfly switch fiasco...

    Please don't tell me those can be ignored simple because "every device has engineering flaws"? because these issues are put there not by an "oversight" (which can happen to the best) but by sheer, unexcusible stupidity.
  • 1
    @FinlayDaG33k I had a Dell that the heat sink melted the plastic chassis. I had a Samsung phone that the screen completely delaminated on.

    I’m kind of surprised I have to say this on devrant since this is a critical part of our job as devs. We don’t know how much testing goes into something. It could actually have tested at spec then a regression happened or the spec changed.
  • 0
    Well... I always test beyond spec and never let the spec change during development (only between sprints)... so... well... idk... could just be me?

    Though that doesn't change anything about the sheer stupidity of the flaws...

    And yes, every device can have them, but with Apple, I have yet to see a device that doesn't have hilariously dumb flaws, while with most other vendors, I have to seriously look at it in order to find something...

    And if I find something, it's often not reproducable...
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    My three main arguments against are:

    1. Their unibody cases, especially Macbook pro, give some problems with certain WiFi networks.

    2. Lack of UI configuration options. I personally prefer absolutely flexible end user control over sensible locked defaults.

    3. I think in the last 5 years, their innovation has stifled a bit. There's gimmicks like the Macbook touch bar, and plain falling behind like with the iPhone notch.

    That said -- I can understand that people like the whole ecosystem as a package deal.

    I don't understand why people ever feel like they have to go on the offense or defense when talking about products/operating systems.
  • 2
    I really do like apple products. I have the newest macbook pro, and its really nice. I hadn't really used a unix based OS before, and that mixed in with Apples top tier UX is really great.

    I also have a cheap ipad for note taking in class. The one thing I dont have is the iphone. I just prefer the google pixel. I think iphones are great. They have a nice software suite, and UX is fine. I just feel like the pure android pixel experience is more aligned with what i liked about my macbook. great ux, extensible, and respects the user.
  • 1
    I just find the price insane and the fact that its mostly a black box makes that I distrust apple devices like hell.
  • 2
    Apple is the best.

    Not from being... well... even very good.

    Just by being slightly better than all the other totally shit tech companies.
  • 0
    @theKarlisK it’s a duopoly stifling innovation.
  • 0
    But can it run Crisis 3 on max settings
  • 0
    @FinlayDaG33k Testing beyond spec? You must live way in back end land.

    An example of one I just saw today was that another API that we consume started including an extra value that includes a new "status". That value was being shown in a proceduraly generated front-end component in a for loop. So without any code change and any warning something changed and the business decided that they need to support a new "status" which didn't exist in the css. We built to a spec but a different team changed the spec and other teams consume their data.

    In similar ways you could have a heat management team build with expected tolerances and gets the work signed off. Then the PCB team decides that they need to switch to a CPU-submodel with minor spec changes because procurement team can't get enough of the original part. Since the manufacturing team hasn't produced an actual unit there isn't an engineering change order for the change. Oops.
  • 0
    @linuxxx My wife's MBP is less of a black box than my Lenovo. It is UNIX it can't be that much of a black box. Lenovo connects a ton of different but swappable parts and peripherals onto their PCB so each SN relates to a specific manufacturing batch the numbers on the case are just a way for customers to know which model their collection of parts was sold under.
  • 1
    @irene The second any person in the world can research the code, I'll change my narrative.
  • 0
    @linuxxx So you are talking software?Which code can’t you inspect? Cite an example please.
  • 1
    @FinlayDaG33k After your specific example about the 2019 MBA I watched the Louis Rossman video. I thought “WTF is going on there?”

    My friend that does aftermarket repairs on Apple products and my former engineer colleague has access to an industrialization lab. He looked with the FLIR and some other tools. His explanation was summarized as this.

    The heatsink and fan are both open on the bottom inside the chassis. The fan pulls in cool air from the back vent then creates a high pressure situation in the chassis. Since hot air rises and the heatsink fins run laterally convection keeps the higher pressure cool air moving toward the right hand side of the machine. The slots in the back of the computer act as spillways near the heatsink.

    Basically it is convection cooling with increased pressure but instead of having cooling slots at the bottom the intake is in line with the spillways and is pushed by the fan.
  • 0
    @mcfly there are nomad cables, ooohhhh 3 meters kevlar 100w type c
  • 1
    @irene Yea, that's indeed what was supposed the happen... but when you slap a 7W chip under such a tiny heatsink and *hope* that the "convection" will be enough to cool the chip? I call that a dumb flaw.

    About the "but maybe they changed the CPU later?"

    Well, the lowest TDP chip on that socket (" FCBGA1515") is 5W... which also fried itself on the same cooling solution, so even if they did change the CPU, they had to basically create an entire mainboard from scratch to do so...

    And considering they already knew about the issue when they created the MBA2020, in which they slapped a 9W TDP on the base model (remember: the 7W chips were already known to fry themselves, 5W would also fry with that cooling, so they jammed a hotter chip in there)...

    The lowest TDP on that socket ("BGA1377")? well... that exact chip...

    So no, the argument "but maybe Team ABC decided to use a more powerful CPU after the fact" isn't exactly valid here...
  • 0
    @FinlayDaG33k From what I learned from my friend’s testing yesterday it appears the engineers were made to implement a bad design decision more than accidentally leaving in a design flaw. Team made it to the spec but the spec was bad. Maybe the management wants to mess with the performance so that the ARM based systems will look better or something. This goes back to my comment above about “really stupid business moves”.

    Also ignore what I said before the testing comment because I didn’t really know.
  • 2
    @irene That could be, maybe I should re-phrase from "flaw" to "bad design" then again... won't really change much to the argument I was trying to make :p

    Considering you've taken a look at Rossman's videos, you should be well aware of the hilarious issues Apple devices come with nowadays :p

    I mean, when they work, they work pretty good...

    Problem is when they don't work... especially when Apple then blames everything on water damage :^)
  • 1
    @irene The kernel, for example. Or do you have a source for me?
  • 2
    @FinlayDaG33k Yeah. I’m okay with bad design choices. Engineering flaws not so much. I think it is important to blame the right crowd.

    @linuxxx the kernel as requested. https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu
  • 1
    @irene Ah awesome! I just can't find instructions for reproduceable builds and the top of the github page says "part of" - where can I find the entire source code of the system including secure enclave, apples apps, their crypto system, etc?
  • 3
    @linuxxx https://opensource.apple.com/ They include source for basically everything and most are open source projects that build down to a distributable binary and run using their kernel.

    As someone who has built open source software I can tell you that often the source code is open but the knowledge of how to do development tasks requires a strong technical understanding of the system. They aren’t going to spoon feed you a build of MacOS. The source is open and inspectable not a black box like you suggested.
  • 1
    @linuxxx since you asked so nice here is the kernel building guide.
  • 0
    @irene linux fan destroyed with FACTS and LOGIC
  • 1
    @uyouthe I’m a huge Linux fan too. Hating MacOS as a Linux fan is like hating your auntie. You can be annoyed with her antics but at the end of the day she is family.

    Now Windows on the other hand is like a creepy stalker that hangs out by the playground feeding some invisible geese. Fuck that guy. What is he up to? Rumour has it he traps unsuspecting distros in his van and makes them do what he wants but you can’t really know because he operates in the dark. I think his license plate starts with WSL2 something.
  • 2
    @irene No, reproduceable builds, not just builds.

    So, a way to verify that what you're compiling is an exact match to what you're running. I've been search for a while but I can't find it.

    Also cannot find secure enclave code or other things like apps and possible kernel modules outside of the FOSS scope (since their chips are proprietary you cannot have a functioning system without those).
    Edit: you could but I can't find any source code related to kernel modules as for their proprietary chips.

    @uyouthe nah, I legitimately cannot find these things and without the entire package, I can't verify enough.
    I'd love it for apple software to become (F)LOSS! Hell, if it's nice I might even build my own version of it and use it on a device of my choice :D
  • 1
    @linuxxx LinuxxxOS 11.03 "High Volume" :^)
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