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Become a PM
bagfox71649dAnything but a PM
MO-meN749dI have good knowledge in python and good at problem solving too also do a basic program with selenium web scraping that send message throw what's web but my knowledge in web itself is not strong and I don't know which track to choose
d-fanelli72049dIt’s ok! Take the time to learn. Not everyone knows everything. There are great developers who don’t know the basics of some things. I can’t write CSS, some of it looks greek to me but I have basic knowledge of what it’s for, what CSS classes are for. My knowledge of security is pretty weak too
C0D46244249dHigh school dropout exists stage left, let's just pretend I was never here 🤣
@SortOfTested i was joking but now am curious. if the knowledge level of a pm is that of a high school grad, what does those business schools and MBA degree teach? More so, what knowledge and skills are actually required for a PM for daily works?
I often feel tech is not right for me, but i can very well organize the stuff and work around me. I guess i could look into management if i could get to know more about it
Honestly? Business degrees are the "I literally couldn't pass anything else" degree here. They teach you word, excel and in the very best cases basic accounting. The rest of the time it's quite literally high school level economics material.
MBAs are a sore spot with me. When they were created, they were supposed to be for business graduates who had some years in management. The focus was on advanced business strategy and getting a group together whose diversity of experience would be shared and make veryone else better.
Fast forward to 2020, and I see people who are 22 going for MBAs because they're a fast, trivial "executive degree." That is the definition of grad schooling having 0 rationale. It's just profiteering; anyone who just got their undergrad brings nothing to the table and is cheating their fellow students.
If someone gets their MBA before 30, I completely discount it.
pt 2, what a PM is supposed to be
A PM is supposed to own the customer engagement and ensure delivery of a project from a timeline and monetary standpoint. They need to be able to handle financial projections to a degree they can communicate with stakeholders and executives on the state of the project, and technical leads on the progress of the work. They arbitrate for what measures and progress are needed to achieve goals and are supposed to be the lynchpin between organizational and technical compromise.
Most PMs now are just babysitters who moonlight as wait staff taking the orders from the customer and delivering them to the dev kitchen.
eo287583449d@MO-meN I suggest you do some project-based programming, because development is not the same as CS. Contribute to an open-source project, for example. Actually, open-source projects (or at least most famous ones, specially in Python) are the best example of collaborative code, of the kind you'll develop at work: deep-tested and thoroughly documented.
OR just stay in academics, talking about abstract data structures, solving all the discrete math, published research papers etc.
@SortOfTested thanks, you just saved me from committing the same mistake. In india we have CAT exam, one of the top competitive exams for mba and children as young as 20 or 21 are giving it, meaning they can be a business graduate even before 24.
Ofcourse they would have nothing to bring on table, they are the same kids who might have read economics for the first time in bizz school.
Thank you for this. And one last parting question : if you think 30 is a good age to get an executive degree and start into management world, then i assume you are talking about gaining experience of the industry before that.
So what kind of experience are we talking here? As a fresh grad , should i continue to go deep into my area of technical interest as that would lead me to gain experience of a particular tech(eg mobile dev)?
or should i go onto research more about startups, finances management, stocks, entrepreneurship, etc and try to gain more experience in that?
Your situation is different from mine. India on the whole doesnt seem to view engineering as a career, they expect you to leave it and move into management, which the biggest tech companies view as a waste of good minds. Principal and distinguished engineers, then Director/CTO are the targets here in companies that do software as a business.
If you're wanting an MBA by 30, you need to have at least a few projects under you as a manager, key being management rather than tech. Engineer to MBA is a head scratcher that doesn't make sense to me, sans maybe chemical engineer as they're more process oriented.
For me, I would never want to go the business management route. If you want to, I don't have a lot of good advice. If the prevailing trend where you are is get an MBA young, you'd be a fool to do otherwise regardless. Play by the rules of the market you want to be in, my opinion of the decay of a degree discipline is immaterial to that.
Your position doesn't sound very good right now not gonna lie.
Good news. Acknowledgment is a start.
Now get to understanding whatever you need to feel accomplished at your position.
If you were relying on the system all this time (gathered from your comparison with high school), sorry to break it but you'd rarely get to explore any subject in significant depth. Rather pick one small topic (like web scraping, that's already part of your arsenal) and try exploring on your own.
Create some tough requirements for your projects and complete them. The only way to actually gain confidence in your art.
I'd suggest pick something that is current and application-based rather than basic fundamentals. It'll keep you engaged if you can apply and see the results constantly. You can always come back for deeper understanding when you have spare time on your hands.
@yowhatthefuck @SortOfTested I might have different beliefs on this.
Given that @yowhatthefuck is part of the Indian engineer production factory. Having an MBA at 30 is needlessly capping your knees. There is abundance of 24 yo business graduates who'll probably compose majority of the workspace. Competing with them might sound like a rat race scenario but it is what it is.
You'll probably be much more equipped to handle management shit thrown at you when you're 30, but the metrics companies use to find your worth is still attached to field experience.
@SortOfTested I do agree with your point of having a few "Management" projects under the belt when attempting MBA at 30, but, unless you're actually getting a better uni for the program, your soft qualifications are pretty much useless. Again, not saying this is not a viable route but it just is very inefficient.
The best takeaway imo is to go for MBA after an year of tech experience, given that you can still give time to gain experience in tech.
It's a crap shoot, and entirely based on where he wants to end up. A single year won't give you experience and anything, and not having experience managing anything puts you in effectively the same position as someone who has no work experience at all.
Personally, I'm also tired of people bailing out of engineering to go to management. If that is the goal, they shouldn't start to begin with. They should get a business degree and focus on economics, logistics. To your point, there's an excess of 20 something business grads, not to mention a surplus of 5-and-out finger wagging uncles telling us their shit smelled like cinnamon rolls "when they were engineers." Treating engineering as a springboard to a management career is what is eroding quality everywhere.
@SortOfTested True that. It's simply way too broken to try to do the right thing. Hence, partly the reason why an H1B Visa is the go-to dream for anyone pursuing tech-only fields in India.
As far as experience is concerned, you hardly gain experience from the existence of the field. Quite the same thing for almost any other profession. Sticking your nose out for opportunity is the only way you can attempt to gain it. It's just that a staggering number of people are considered "successful" just by being in a position, which more or less even feeds into their delusion of accomplishment.
Since not having field exp is the same as having it in the eyes of the employer, he'd rather get the material part of it out of the way. Of course it comes with its own set of responsibilities and ton of burden which needs to be individually assessed.
nanl243248dJust keep learning.