Okay. I look at myself as a kind of intellectual person. My parents are not believers so I came out quiet normal. As engineer and fan of technology I believe in science and I have a fairly complete look at life and universe at whole, I do not need any religional explanation for anything. I do not believe in the conspiracy theories and in any highly organized global secret society who controll us. I have acquired my view and opinions by systematically rethinking every aspect of life and everything I knew and I was thought before, btw this is the reason I stopped to eat animal products too.

But after all this corona shitshow, I really don't know If the current situation is just rolled by stupidity of media and politics or its really some plan of some people. I mean you can legally buy cigarettes with proven death rate of 10%, they recommend you to drink milk while its ultra carcinogenic and like 60% of population is intolerant, you have to wear mask but not gloves while the virus transference is 90% trough hand contact, and there are many many many questions that makes me paranoid. And now this vaccination stuff with countries almost forcing it in population, ahh... Man, This complete story is too irrational and strange. I start to loose my stable belief system and slide out. I noticed that I am not sure and I am just silent when people talk about these things. I hope this nonsense will end soon.

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    Turn yourself and your phone offline, go for a walk (if you can), live your own life.

    Don't give a fuck about society. It's above us, unless you are politician or so.
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    Maybe you need to trust the science a bit more and let it fix the misconceptions you presented at the end.
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    Hanlon’s razor is at work in all this.

    Plane staff enforcing social distancing, then everyone cramming onto a bus to the terminal.
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    Where did you see that it's 90% transference rate through hand contact? I've not heard that and nothing I looked up in 30 seconds on search engines seemed to mention it.
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    @puradawid politicians, at least at the national level, don't care about society either, unless that society is comprised of other politicians. And they only care about that in so much as they need a majority vote to give themselves another raise and 6 more months time off.
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    Yeah also milk is carcinogenic? Well I guess we're all fucked from drinking mom's milk for like 2 years of our lives...

    anyway i already know you'll come back with bUt i MeAn fOr CoWs

    i mean i am angry two at the nearly infinite double standards from this corona bullshit but some of this stuff is borderline conspiracy / wrong...
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    @fullstackchris Milk is filled with hormones to kick the extreme multiplication of cells for babies so they get the help to develop their bodies. There is no single species on the planet which drinks breast milk as developed organism. The stimulating effect of milk still works later but the growt causes degenerations like cists, tumors, and different unnatural multiplication of cells. For me it makes sense.
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    @blindXfish where did you read it?
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    @blindXfish except babies don't need any "kick". They are already crazy self replicating machines from the start. Milk is just highly nutritious (arguably too nutritious for adults, and might support obesity)
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    There are no documented cases where the virus spread through objects or touching without it having the opportunity to spread through the air
    On the other hand, there are countless documented cases where the virus spread through the air without it having a kinetic route.
    I don't know where you got your info but you should probably source check them.
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    In any case you sound like you learned a bit about biology and now you're sitting atop Mt. Stupid looking down on both experts and commoners, wondering why we don't ban milk (because it doesn't cause cancer, this theory is lacking statistical evidence) and why you can still buy cigarettes (because smoking is voluntary and banning self-destructive behavior is generally considered to be beyond the scope of societal laws in sane countries).
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    Think of what is more probable, people being controled and force to use masks because some weird scheme about chips in vacines or that mask reduce spread of your micro droplets of viruses and that vacine is the only way to realy fight global pandemic and getting back to productive economy. Countries are pushing for vacination because it is only way to not loose money. Think of incentives, and you will find explanation, people are good but they are stupid. Including me ofc.
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    @danielstaleiny you bring up a good point. The phrase "follow the money" even applies to this situation, as it does to nearly every situation.
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    it is not always about money, but yes it changes / skew decision making. @intoleRANT
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    One lesson I learned the hard way is: Don't put confidence on theory.

    We take a lot of truth nowadays in what is actually theory.

    Sounds ominous? Not really.

    Corona especially showed how media e.g. forgot to add very important words to each news: Based on non peer reviewed, but preliminary available studies, . . .

    A lot of stuff handled as "facts" weren't facts. Preliminary studies can be wrong. They're meant to exchange information between _experts_. But media took it and bang we got another drama lama.

    Leaving that aside, a lot of our knowledge is in fact a theory. We still lack for a lot of our knowledge "proof" as it is either not possible (physics is a good example, creating a wormhole is e.g. a bad idea ;) or not ethical (I think this needs no explanation....?!).

    We / humanity tend to take a lot of things for granted, although we should rather be neutral and always be curious enough to ask if this is really the truth or just a valid hypothesis.

    There are lots of examples for this... Mostly because we advanced at an increasing fast pace.

    It's a good reminder that in nearly 30 years we went from "have you heard, XY has a personal computer" to "having children with smartphones is the norm"...

    We are aware of it - most of the time - but I think we're very good at ignoring history.

    The last thing: a lot of information that is spread through the internet can apply only to a specific region, a specific timeframe and so on - but is handled globally in the news.

    Which wouldn't be so bad if we humans were good at filtering. But we're not.

    Most people have an real overflow of information, but the information lacks depth.

    Another good example of corona: "Yeah... Mutants everywhere".

    And when you ask where... You'll mostly get not an accurate answer - but rather "yeah was on the news"

    When reading your comment, I exactly get the feeling that you've ingested far more news than you can - and should - handle.
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    We should stick to our own area of expertise.

    A lot of drama lama came from experts who weren't experts, but rather lobbyists, politicians or "look I've heard from XY" wannabes...

    And yeah. This ends bad.

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    @homo-lorens well, narcotics and prostitution are banned in most countries though 🤔
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    @iiii Prostitution is an uncanny edge case of consensuality and is intertwined with exploitation. I'm not sure about narcotics.
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    @homo-lorens it's exploitative mostly because it's illegal
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    @iiii From a more materialist point of view, prostitution is banned for the same reason we have a minimum wage; Even though a disadvantageous trade agreement is consensual legally speaking, it can still be an artifact of systematic exploitation.
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    @iiii It's a difficult question and I don't have an answer, I'm just explaining why it is different.
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    @iiii many many many reasons for that.

    Even legal prostitution is still stigmatized.

    Same for narcotics.

    Legalizing doesn't solve problems at all, it just lowers the barriers so people start talking about it seriously instead of ignoring it or "transfiguring" it.

    Going to a bar. Getting drunk. OK.

    Going to a brothel. OmG. Really?

    Going to help out at e.g. an AA (anonymous alcoholics) or another meeting... Are you sure that's okay? Take care of you... That sounds dangerous.

    (Yeah. I had these discussions. Btw you can go to a brothel not for sex, but for social welfare reasons. It doesn't matter, you're now ""that type of person"").
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    @IntrusionCM aren't you mixing cause and effect?
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    It becomes kinda the same in this case.

    If people don't talk about it or ignore it, cause it's socially unacceptable, people look away deliberately.

    People looking away means that it won't gain political momentum as it would be damaging for the political career - or even worse, it gains political momentum but for the wrong reasons (lobbyism) or doing even greater damage (e.g. good intentions, but complete lack of understanding and knowledge)

    Criminalization is just then the fucked up humanity putting 1 plus 1 together.

    If I do X, noone will talk about it - and even if they do, they won't be taken seriously anyway.

    The sentence "Noone knew about it" usually means: "Everybody knew it, but that's not something we will talk about".

    And this is very common....
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    The Virus transference by touch is below 1%, mentioned by Christian Drosten in his Podcast about Corona in one of the first 20 episodes.
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    But the milk thing is right. Source for this is China Dtudy by T. Campbell.
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    @knobfloortowel which is completely bogus....

    The study is wrong.

    And a good example of how the Internet turns falsehood into truth...
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    @knobfloortowel the study is wrong. Proven many times. From different authors.

    But guess you don't want to hear this? ;)
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    Even the qualified critics say that some mistakes in analysing the data dont reduce the significance of the study at all. The recommendations the study/book tells are meanwhile who nd diet standards. Sorry but dont see where it is wrong.
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    @knobfloortowel the carcinogenic part is wrong.
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    @blindXfish I'm not familiar with the statistics, but seeing as there are over 100 states in the world, don't you think if the difference was that visible at least some of them would ban milk?
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    @homo-lorens you think that if something is banned only because it's bad for you? :D Please try again. Shall I mention like 1000 products as help?
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    @blindXfish The reason I'm not really trusting these studies is because the way the studies are conducted.


    A lot of numbers, don't eat everything at first sight.

    But when you look at each study there is a pattern. Stochastic works in a simple way: Take 1000 people, monitor them over years, build shiny numbers.

    If there would be a full access to all data, I'd be less concerned.

    But simply put: If 1000 of these people smoked, lived near a contaminated area and were morbid obese...

    Yeah. Cancer and mortality are a no brainer then.

    Which brings me to another point very visible on this site: ""Buy our shit TM"".

    The last thing: A lot of studies should be seen in a regional context.

    E.g. the USA has really thousands of products which are banned in the EU.

    Dietary guidelines in the world differ extremely, too.

    And the handling of food, too.

    E.g. in USA it's common to bleach food.

    Last but not least: it's true that in general humanity eats way too much meat.

    I like vegetarian / vegan recipes.

    But - and this is sadly why some of these studies exist (or get funded) - the food industry is quite pervasive and persuasive.

    Each year we get a shitton of new products, most likely claimed healthy, while on closer look there's always a "Nope. Not healthy at all".


    You shouldn't drink every day 1l of milk. (Or 750 ml as seemingly a guideline mentioned in the study says).

    But a bit of milk in the coffee, roughly 25 ml? Seems very harmless.

    You shouldn't eat (red) meat.

    Yes. Eating everyday meat is in general a bad idea. When you buy meat from a certified bio farm, which processes the meat in house, you roughly pay in germany 5 - 10 times (yes. multiplication) the price of meat vs the local supermarket.

    Which should be enough of a hint how many times you _could_ eat meat in a week if the meat isn't of low quality. 1-2 times top if you have a good income.

    Same for cheese... ;)
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    @blindXfish that site is some woke shit. I would not trust it even a little bit.
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    @IntrusionCM And without the study, you think its okay? I mean to forcefully impregnate a being from other species to kill the baby of it and milk it out for my own consumption? :D And why there is no other species drinking milk of other species? btw you heard about lactomorphins, the reason they filling basically every possible product with milk powder? This whole shit smells too much to me, it is an ancient sick discusting practice I want to stay away anyways regardless of the health concerns, and I dont think a conscious person can stay on the side of this act. It is my personal opinion, of course everyone is beliving in stuff which justifies his own f*ckupness, just look at ruby devs :D. If I would have to choose I would rather eat meat.
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    @blindXfish "And without the study, you think its okay? I mean to forcefully impregnate a being from other species to kill the baby of it and milk it out for my own consumption?"

    If it wasn't industrialized - yes. That's the gist of what I'm saying - a lot of the _bad_ stems from the simple fact that humans are greedy.

    The meat doesn't grow on trees :). The question is _how_ does the cow life and how is it impregnated? Forceful impregnation is the only way to support the demand for meat that humanity currently has. If I buy it from a local farmer, who doesn't use forceful impregnation, but pay a higher price - why not?

    There is bad and evil - of course - but you can - to a certain degree - choose to support this or not.
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    The same is true by the way for the whole food industry. Avocado's leading to dry desolated areas and shortage of water cause the markets want avocados at all cost and ship them over the whole world. Massive health issues in country where e.g. soy plants are sprayed with pesticides to support the growing boom of vegan meat-free products.

    To keep it simple: Go for local regional products. Don't buy stuff that wouldn't be available in your country. Seasonal fruit / vegetables and so on.

    It's pretty easy.
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    @blindXfish you're trying to tie some ethics here, but ethics it's not the topic
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