This is a place for ranting, right? It's "Dev"-"Rant", right?
So, why so much hate when people do actually rant?
Kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it? Or maybe the name is just misleading...
Or maybe y'all just gate-keeping ranting - which is... ya, okay - you do you, you preppy tosser.

Anyway, on that note:
I fucking hate web-development.
I fucking hate CSS.

CSS isn't a tool, it's a curse.
It's like a soft black magic system:
This specific behavior can sometimes be created by combining these specific elements, but will fall apart if you're a gemini - unless you wore a colorful hat at your fifth birthday party. If you didn't have a party, it'll produce some random behavior of the deer-god's choosing.

Examples?

Ah more bullshit

@iiii Part 1:

Yesterday I had a parent div set to divide its children into columns of width 320px; it has a height of 100% because it inherits the actual height from its parent.

Yesterday THAT WORKED and it divided the child elements into about 4 columns.

Then I started setting up the media queries, and got some strange behavior with the scale of the website. I could change nothing, reload the site and the scale would be different than before - then reload it again (nothing changed) and the scale would be something new. (I am testing in Chrome)

@iiii Part 2:
My senior came to look and we agreed it must be a Chrome thing. So we removed the media queries all together and started over, because I had been adjusting the queries based on that odd behavior in browser and they had gotten messy.

Today the columns aren't column-ing anymore, it's just one long block of child elements. I've been going through the html and css with a fine-tooth comb to find what caused the change - I can't find anything.

I found an article that says for columns to work there has to be a fixed height - but it was literally working without it yesterday.

If I can't find the problem I'm going to have to start over. I'm just really frustrated with it.

@Eklavya
Indeed, an eye for an eye - has worked out so well for global culture.

And, I mean, I did take YOUR eye, didn't I.

Insulted you and your family personally. Guess you identify as a preppy, ya?

To be honest maybe the problem isn't the CSS. You can leverage so many different techs like sass, SCSS but for real the problem is the shitshow that's making you use it. People make animated 3d works in pure CSS and they work across the board; there are times it has limitations but this seems like it isn't one of those cases. Start with Cypress and then if you fuck around you can find out with full colour

I meant examples of rants which get unfair criticism 🤔

Idk, being wrong isn't a rant.

What works is rants that are objective rants like "we have 3 daily stand-ups a day, our PM is an idiot" and no one will really push back... Or "my client keeps changing the fucking requirements every week" that's something to rant about because most or us know those problems and agree they are indeed annoying

What isn't so objective is "language A sucks because I like language B better"

That's completely subjective and It's gonna get flak from people that disagree. Your not really ranting but whining then...

A good rant usually tells a story, and "I don't know how to use a tool properly" is not a story

@iiii This is a ranting site, there shouldn't be any criticism on rants - it's a space to vent about dev stuff. It's not like I'm asking for help - I'm blowing off steam and I don't do it often, this is only my second post.

Otherwise you're telling me they literally just made a forum to lord their egotistical superiority over others. Like legit sitting there waiting for a rant so they can dump on the person who made it, to make themselves feel big.

@Hazarth You like CSS, I don't. That makes me wrong?
So if you like apples and everyone else doesn't their wrong.

Objective rant example: Literally criticises another human being personally (calls them an idiot) for doing their job. Yes, you are an objectively critical person. XD

"Most of us know those problems." Those aren't problems with the world, it's a lack of social and emotional intelligence in you. It's your problem with people.

"It's gonna get flak from people that disagree" - Your logic is "If YoUr ProBlEMs Don'T MaTCh MinE ThEy Can't Be PrOBlems"
Seriously? Grow up dude.

Yes, my rant is subjective - I don't like CSS. I know some people do. I'm not attacking them for it.

I did tell a story, it was about black magic, and I rather liked it.

Fair enough though - I will leave "It's my opinion!" at the end of every rant.

@Hazarth As for not knowing the tool - I am trying. I'd love to go to some amazing school that teaches me everything I need to know but that costs money that I am literally trying to make. I am using resources online, figuring it out as I go and doing my best.

Sure maybe you're doing the same and I'm not as smart as you, but at least I don't go around mocking people for not being more like me.

@I-Hate-My-Job

Whoa dude, don't get your panties in a bunch.

I didn't say half the things you imply I said... And I never said you don't understand CSS, the tool example is just 80% rants we get... That's why you see backlash on other rants, most of them are just complaints about being stupid...

Also wtf is your problem. I never ever said nor tried to say that only my problems are real problems and others are invalid. You're putting up so many strawmen you could start a farm...

You asked why there is hate towards rants, and I tried to explain it... Your rant wasn't one of those, though it was pretty incomplete since you only gave examples in comments and not in the rant itself but whatever.

Why are you so insecure about your rants anyway? You're relatively new here and you already came in upset with fangs out... Just rant away and if someone disagrees who cares?

@I-Hate-My-Job also I really do not like CSS, Im a backend dev and most things on FE are out of my scope. I don't know where you got it from that I like CSS -_-

Yes, chrome can be weird if you’re a dev and try weird stuff, but only then. For example, recalculating styles to early, or too late using devTools.

99.98% of the time it’s probably something you misunderstood or glanced over.

I’ve been doing web for more than 12 years and yes my first 2 years weren’t easy, but pretty much whatever I do in chrome, just works flawlessly first try. Then, I check it on Firefox and it works just as well.

You don’t like CSS, because you do t understand CSS. That’s the culprit of your hate. If you’d know it properly, you’d know that it actually pretty good compared to other alternatives in different fields.

[1/2]

And you’re not gonna understand the true depths of the technology by paying some stupid school or using basically any crappy online course or what have you. They only serve the purpose to use the technology, not really to go in-depth how it works under the hood.

You will need to understand how the W3 consortium intended it in the past, how it was build and then how it has been extended as clean as possible in order to fulfill the future needs we require. This means reading endlessly on specs and testing against specs on which you will most likely not find interest, because most will find it boring. But the, on the other hand, people will scream at you that web is so high level, they forget the low level knowledge you need to make truly great software. And then, only then you may try to use some web-native stuff like electron, it will be hella confusing if you have no fucking clue what shit actually does.

[2/2]

@I-Hate-My-Job well, if you rant because, for example, you don't understand how floats work, then you will get many comments about how this is not a rant, but you being dumb and not knowing your tool.

Ps I ain’t gate keeping, I primarily work with web, yes. Because that what my work needs from me. But I’ve been pretty much anywhere and I will never want to use xml or Million lines of code to style a stupid button.

They all need at least 50 loc to just work on a basic level, ignoring the fact how many edge cases a button can have and most likely break horribly if not handled correctly.

Or... you just say “fuck it, I’m too dumb for that, I use the native button and say I can’t do anything beyond the native OS’s abilities”

I'm still waiting on some examples of unfairly criticized rants personally, before I pass any judgments here.

@intoleRANT maybe his first rant? (In his opinion)

@Pogromist I just read his first rant and if that's what he's talking about, I don't see his complaint at all. Everyone was like "bullshit. CSS is easy unless you're doing legacy shit, then good luck coz it suuuuucks" and he's like "I am doing legacy stuff" so given that, it seems like everyone is still on his side, right?

@Hazarth You should actually read through what you comment. I literally commented your own words back to you and you still can't see it.

@Hazarth :/ Ya, okay maybe we got off on the wrong foot, I dunno. I'm sorry. But I'm sure you can see what I'm saying: Calling someone an idiot is not objective and just because it's a rant about a tool rather than social issues doesn't mean it's wrong. You literally used the word wrong. But okay, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

@petergriffin Do you have any resources you can suggest? Or is it like reading through everything and saving the important stuff you find over years of digging?

@iiii See, that's ignorant though.

You shouldn't call someone stupid for not knowing how stuff works. Nobody pops out of mom just knowing how everything works.

Everything you know, you either learnt through experience or through someone teaching you. Someone can be in the exact same school, course, house, community - whatever - as you are and not have the same experiences or learn the same things.

They are ignorant about this tool sure, but you're ignorant about interaction and how knowledge is gained. Get it?

@intoleRANT I stand by that others shouldn't criticize on a VENTING forum. It's illogical.

I said this above:
This is a ranting site, there shouldn't be any criticism on rants - it's a space to vent about dev stuff. It's not like I'm asking for help - I'm blowing off steam and I don't do it often, this is only my second post.

Otherwise you're telling me they literally just made a forum to lord their egotistical superiority over others. Like legit sitting there waiting for a rant so they can dump on the person who made it, to make themselves feel big.

@petergriffin Again, you guys take this shit too personally, I wasn't aiming the gate-keeping thing at you. I don't know you.

Of everyone here - you're the first one to reply with a genuine discussion. The gate-keeping thing was about people dumping on and grieving me when I use this devRANT (RANT) [RaNt] forum to, you guessed it, rant.

Try TailWindCSS if you hate CSS... it made me like doing frontend stuff again.

@Pogromist Well ya honestly, I was struggling and needed a place to yell that wouldn't get me fired. I Googled ranting sites and this came up.

I ranted and got royally shat on by what I can only imagine is a very tech-savy community of man-babies with superiority complexes, because I'm StuPid for not understanding and DoiNg iT WrONg.

it is literally happening on this post as well - the fact that you can't see it or just ignore it is alarming.

Just read through the comments, if you can't see it, I really can't help you.

@I-Hate-My-Job because of my anxiety i don't like comments that don't agree with me in some way but i don't mind them anymore

@I-Hate-My-Job Now at this point, I have to believe you're intentionally misunderstanding the intent of the comments because you want everything to fit your biased narrative.

If you come into an issue you're facing with a hostile attitude about how terrible a tool is, don't be surprised when that hostility is returned to you when people defend the tool and telling you that you lack fundamental knowledge of that tool.

If it is your first rant you're speaking of, everyone who "critisized" you in saying it's easy to use added the caveat of "unless you're working with legacy" which you later confirmed you are. So what's the problem? If I come in here bitching about how terrible vim is because I can't exit it, I shouldn't be offended when the answer is "look on Google you fucking nerd". But if I later state I can't exit vim because my computer has no keyboard, then everyone sympathizes with my issue, I'm now vindicated. As happened in your case. Except you're still complaining. Why?

@intoleRANT I only replied the legacy stuff today, haven't been on here in a while. The attitude was - "If you're struggling you must be stupid."

The attitude to this one is "We don't agree with what you're saying so we're gonna whine to you about it."

And then I whine back and the cycle continues.

Like, if you don't like what I'm venting about, NOTHING stops you from just scrolling on. You don't have to comment some self-important tit-bit. I signed up here because I thought I could vent my frustration in peace. And against my better judgement I used it a second time because today sucked and I needed to just talk to someone about it.

Yes, I was defensive writing this post because I knew I was gonna get called stupid by highly intelligent toddlers again.

@TheJuice Thanks man, I'll take a look at it.

@intoleRANT Like you talk about sides in your comment. There shouldn't be fucking sides. Why are there sides?!

@I-Hate-My-Job it does not make it different though. If you don't know basic stuff about your tool and bitching about it... You're not very smart

@Pogromist Okay, see, now I get you. Now it's cool. We can be friends even if we disagree.

@I-Hate-My-Job why would you post anything at all if you don't want people to respond? Now you're gatekeeping the responses! How is that better than the people gatekeeping your rants? I'll respond to anything I want in any manner I feel like if I think it's justified. That's my prerogative. Also I'm not sure if it's a typo or not, but it's actually a "tid-bit", though I guess your usage has a degree of applicable context...

@I-Hate-My-Job but it's not a site where everyone just would agree to everything the user posted that i myself thought at first, even tho it's a rant.
There's many rude, nice people here, all kind of people on devRant

@intoleRANT Bullshit. Read the comments.

"If you come into an issue you're facing with a hostile attitude about how terrible a tool is, don't be surprised when that hostility is returned to you when people defend the tool and telling you that you lack fundamental knowledge of that tool."

I can't believe I have to say this again: This is a VENTING forum. THIS-IS-A-VENTING-FORUM.
People literally come here after having bad days, to vent.
You don't have to take what they say personally - you chose to.
You don't know me at all, why is my ranting about this tool making you defensive? Why not just ignore it?
Also, I wasn't asking for help - I was venting.

As for "fundamental knowledge" that's literally bias ignorance on your part, not mine - nothing in this world is fundamental knowledge. Again, nobody pops out of mom knowing everything.

The point is that you shouldn't call anyone stupid, for anything. No matter how easy it is for you.

@intoleRANT I'm still complaining because I don't think you see the problem here. You're defending that people on a venting site should be grief-ed for venting, if they lack some FuNdAMenTaL knowledge. Which is nonsense.

@iiii See that's ignorant. Where am I supposed to get this "basic stuff" other than through schooling or my own experiences? What if I haven't encountered this one specific "basic" thing yet? Then I'm "not very smart" for not encountering it before? So you're not very smart for all the things in life you haven't encountered yet?

@intoleRANT I post here so I don't yell at work. Not yell at people, just not yell in general. I have anger-management issues because I'm bordeline, so I come here to scream into the void when I need to.

I have another site for this as well but it's even more toxic than this one and not dev focused.

And sometimes well-meaning viewers comment some helpful tools that they think may help even if they dunno what's going on - or they just say encouraging words. They don't need to, I'm just looking to yell - but it is nice when they do.

@intoleRANT Okay, your just a know-it-all troll. I'm done with you. You want to fight.

@I-Hate-My-Job I'm hearing a lot of excuses but no attempt at personal accountability. I explained a possible cause of the hostility you're facing. And again, the vast majority of people said "this problem you're facing is easy, unless legacy". They were already giving you the benefit of the doubt. So again, what is the problem? Everyone is here to yell into the void, yell at the other people yelling into the void and possibly to make themselves feel better about their own insecurities. Now you're complaining that they're not doing it politely despite your admission you're here for those same exact reasons. You're now gatekeeping the attitudes of the responses you receive because you seem to feel they are offensive to your sensibilities. I hope you can begin to understand how ridiculous that is now.

@I-Hate-My-Job whatever. The most ignorant here is you: one who wants to only accept his own echo chamber with ultimate acceptance and zero criticism. Don't you wanna just get out of here if we're so toxic and horrible?

@I-Hate-My-Job also THIS is where you get exposure to that "basic stuff" you haven't had the pleasure of experiencing yet. You post a rant about your issue, someone comments with knowledge you didn't know about, you read it with an open mind and allow your skills as both a dev and person grow.

Or you dismiss everyone with a dissenting opinion as trolls who just want to fight and then you allow that deeper insecurity you're struggling with to seize hold of your inner self just a little bit tighter, choking out growth opportunities you might otherwise be open to. But hey, to each their own.

@Pogromist I don't care if people agree or not. But why comment if you disagree - isn't that just antagonizing someone? I suppose I could just ignore them too, but I was already fired up today - maybe they were too.

I get pissed when people comment shit like this:

"Idk, being wrong isn't a rant." Being wrong, really? Opinions can be wrong? How full of yourself are you?

Or this example of an "objective" post:
"What works is rants that are objective rants like 'we have 3 daily stand-ups a day, our PM is an idiot.'"
- first of all, you're being an asshole, second it's NOT objective. Jesus.

Or basically saying it's a good rant IF we all agree it is, like this:
"that's something to rant about because most or us know those problems and agree they are indeed annoying"

Or the high-and-mighty troll guy just now that called me out for a spelling mistake.

And everyone who thinks it's okay to call people stupid for struggling with "basic" knowledge. Seriously you can smell the privilege.

@iiii This dude uses so many words to say absolutely nothing at all, don't he though? And I thought I was good at that. He could teach a master class.

@Pogromist But I get what you're saying. There's both mature and immature people here - and I could've just ignored them too. You're right.

@intoleRANT I am not here to yell at the people yelling into the void. I'm not.

@intoleRANT I mean ya, but not from people like you. There were a few helpful commenters who commented helpful shit - but not you though XD

@I-Hate-My-Job you fucking twat, I was pointing out that you got the phrase wrong to help you grow as a person. I even said that it may have just been a typo. But maybe you're foreign and didn't know the real phrase. It would be embarrassing for you to use the wrong phrase, especially the one you used, in a professional setting. But sure, call me a troll instead and assume I had only malicious intent from the outset. If that's your default approach to life, I can see all too clearly why you have rage issues and I hope sincerely you find your inner peace one day.

https://devrant.com/rants/2393372/...
found similar situation in a comments

@Pogromist that person is much more eloquent in speaking their defense of their view than whatever the hell this entire thread was. This thread was by far more entertaining however.

@I-Hate-My-Job

I kinda get your point of "this is a site for venting" but you're speaking to people that actually understand this field. I also don't expect to walk into a room of physicists, complain that Newtons model of gravity doesn't seem to add up to reality and then expect everyone to just silently hug me and agree with me.

Dunno man, you're speaking publicly, in a public website, to a group with varied expertise in the field. There's people here who have worked for well over 10 years with technologies you probably didn't even hear of and you call everyone here a "toddler".

Not to mention you *started* the rant accussing people of gate-keeping and calling everyone a "preppy tosser"

That's almost like walking into a job interview saying "This is a company right? You employ employees? So employ me, unless your a baby throwing a tantrum ofc"

Not a perfect analogy, but the entry mechanic is similar, what did you expect would happen after you start with an insult?

@I-Hate-My-Job
I'm not quite sure I follow the problem of critical commenting; the arguments just doesn't really add up
> I come here to scream into the void when I need to.
> I signed up here because I thought I could vent my frustration in peace.
and
> ...I used it a second time because today sucked and I needed to just talk to someone about it.

Maybe Twitter (or the like) could fill this need better?

Most of it is probably down to the wording, as the mix of subjective hate and absolute truth against CSS, followed by aggressively defensiveness could confuse anyone with regards to the actual content and intension of the rant. And fOoL-casing strawman arguments does little to make anyone more accepting of your side and view of things.
Had the rant been a preface of the example you gave later, followed by the last line or two, I'm pretty sure the responses would've been much more to your liking.

...and no matter how, why, or what, there will ALWAYS be a fanboi to strongly disagree...

<tool or technology> sucks
:: invalid: oppinion stated as fact
=> ranters will disagree and comment about how wrong you are

I think <tool or technology> sucks
:: oppinion; can be disagreed with, argued, reasoned, discussed, or asked for context

(I think) <tool or technology> sucks, because it doesn't work
=> "you're wrong, using it wrong, or don't know enough to call it"

(I think) <tool or technology> sucks, because <specific thing> doesn't work as it should
=> "you're probably using it wrong or in the wrong context"
=> given an example you'll probably receive pointers and help

(I think) <specific implementation of tool or technology> sucks, because it doesn't follow specs in <specific thing>
=> increments and support from ranters who knows or encounter same or similar

I'm having a shitty day because this shit was dumped on me and it's limited and legacy and doesn't work as it should and I think it sucks
:: ranting with setting, context, emotion, reasoning, and a need to vent