Question for friends in Europe,

How much salary should I ask for?

Context: been applying and interviewing with companies in Europe (London, Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin). Basically tier 1 cities.

I have done some Glassdoor research. But how much shall I ask for given that I have 7.5 years of industry experience and working as a Senior Product Manager.

Given the taxation, cost of living, and other factors. What would be a good amount to not overshoot but also not get low balled?

Uh that's really hard to say and depends on the city where you want to live.
In Germany regionally differences are huge because e.g. apartment rent in Munich is more than twice as high as in Leipzig. The best you can do is working for a big company remotely to have low living costs and a high salery.
To name a number: 60-75k net as a software developer (without any staff responsibility) in Germanys east is top tier. A project manager will normally get more than that and of course there are devs who earn 100k a year but thats not the average.

@bosi I quoted a range of €65K to €75K to a small company based in Berlin, this afternoon.

Same for others. Want to make sure I am asking reasonably.

@Floydimus I think that's ok for more than 7 years of experience.
Do you want to live in the city where the company is or working from remote?

@bosi move to Berlin (or whatever city I get selected to).

Okay i put this into the swiss government median wage comparison website.

Median income for a senior product manager in Zurich per month including a 13th salery is
Rupee 881575 or usd $11'867

If you go to Berlin this would be very good deal for you, but London is very expensive compared to Berlin, Paris too.

Swiss is three times more expensive compared to berlin.

This is the sort of role I typically get emails about, I imagine the difficulty is finding a role that can provide visa sponsorship :

As the Senior Software Developer
...
You will ideally have a minimum of 6 years’ experience and take a lead role to support the team when necessary.

This is a full remote role with no requirement to go into the office

C# / ASP.NET / MVC / SQL
JavaScript / HTML / CSS / Angular
Good experience with Databases.
Minimum 6 years’ experience.
Ideal interest in Logistics and E-Commerce but not essential.
Good communication skills.

In return our client can offer the successful Senior Software Developer a starting salary of between £55,000-£60,000 and numerous benefits including bonus, pension, private healthcare, 25 days holiday (plus b/holidays) and additional discounts.

@knobfloortowel he could live "frugal/normal" with $4000 per month and bag each month more money than a bank clerk does in Mumbai in a year.

65-75k EUR in total including bonuses and benefits and stuff ? If yes, then I think you deserve more based on your experience especially if you’re considering London, Amsterdam or Paris.

Eleventy beeeeellion dollars

you can compare living costs on

www.numbeo.com

@heyheni hey thanks for the Swiss salary info. You also converted, kind of you bro :)

Wait.. I just got confused with the entire math here. Damn!!!! ₹8.8L per month is crazy high. Is the cost of living equally high or any possibility of tech paying such higher salaries?

Haha not sure what frugal/normal mean with Swiss standards but even a techie won't be earning that much in a month in Mumbai.

Yes, I am aware of numbeo and wonder how frequently they update their conversion/inflation to keep up with changing dynamics. Let me do some quick comparison between Zurich and Mumbai.

@knobfloortowel I have heard Paris and Berlin are equally expensive as London but not sure whether €65K to €75K will go given that taxation is higher in EU states (and I am happy to pay them).

@nibor okay that makes sense then. My role is Product Manager/Sr Product Manager. Salary difference can vary upto €20K between both the roles so even when I am not a fan of titles, they can impact my take home.

@-red I think that amount is base and not sure about bonus but definitely perks would be additional like free food and learning allowances.

@heyheni @nibor @-red @knobfloortowel thankfully I had done some research in past and was able to quote decent. Because when Aircall, Paris made me an offer of €58K, I accepted it without negotiation because I was dumb and then with Facebook/Booking.com/Transferwise happening recently, all were offering €120K base.

Hence, my perception got a little rigged because the latter one is double of the very first offer + much higher than market standards for their respective locations.

Hence, wanted to make sure I am not underpaid or over-demanding to be rejected by companies.

I haven't factored in taxation and cost of living but if the range is market average then I guess it should be doable.

Also, why the hell I am not able to post the comment marginally hitting the character limit.. ugh...

Yeah only Lichtenstein and Luxembourg has higher wages than Switzerland followed by Norway.

rs. 320132 or 4000 chf is what a supermarket worker at aldi makes. Rs 440182 or 5500 chf is what the avergage worker in switzerland makes.
Taxes are lower in CH than in germany

rs 32000 / 400 chf for food
rs 96000 / 1200 chf for a studio flat
rs 24000 / 300 chf health insurance

i think the best way to do it is to go to berlin first, learn some german and get a even higher salary in switzerland after that. 15000-23000 chf per month 🤷‍♂️

Bellow a chart of the distribution of the wages of switzerland and zurich.

@heyheni Yes.

I checked Sr PM salary in Zurich and it was 115K CHF (base + bonus).

And the. i quickly checked the taxation for that amount and it was merely 25%. I was surprised.

Not only take home is higher but as you mentioned, living a frugal life will save me a lot of money. I think I must start applying in Switzerland given that Indians are heavily leaning towards Germany/England, competition would be lower for me in the Alps.

Haha yes. I liked the idea of moving within EU zone.

Assuming the employer will provide insurance, ~20K CHF/year is not bad for an in salary of 88K CHF.

Also, why is men and women salary split in that chart?

If you're working in switzerland for more than a year you may be eligible to receive a AHV pension of minimum 1195 chf / 95’640 rupees a month at the age 65. Which will be paid in rupees if you live in india.

The chart is divided to fight gender pay gap inequality. So that women ask for more pay.

@heyheni whoa!! What?

So if work in Swiss for a year and then return, and when I reach 95, I get pension even when I am in India?

How long do I get this? Damn!! This is nice.

@Floydimus
"Switzerland has bilateral social security agreements with 44 countries. Some of these - including India"

https://vischer.com/en/knowledge/...

https://expatica.com/ch/finance/...

@heyheni Man you know so much. This is really exciting. Thank you!

@prodigy214 lol

This is the exact mindset I am trying to run away from.