No-code platforms always like to forget that writing the code is *literally* the easiest part of software development 🙄

It turns out the hard part of software engineering wasn't the software part. It was the engineering part.

I find that when working with managers and users it's much easier for them if the options are displayed in a menu. For devs though, code can be diffed, macroed, autogenerated and parsed with other code, not to mention that most of us type faster than the mouse moves. A no-code tool needs to demonstrate fundamental model differences and extremely powerful automation and meta-no-programming features for me to consider it over code.

people really shit on anything that has a GUI as opposed to written commands and that's bs, you still have to understand the concepts to use a GUI. gatekeeping bs

I am crying because of how true this is

@darksideofyay Not really though. I'm saying that no-code users still need to understand all of the complex things. So then why waste your time on an inflexible tool that only "solves" the easiest thing of your entire endeavour anyways

@12bitfloat even if the no-code has all the tools they need, people will still shit on GUI because "you're not having it hard enough". you're giving a rational explanation to irrational behavior

@darksideofyay True, people do that especially with vim and stuff. But I don't really think like that. Hell I enthusiastically use Rust, so I'm already a heathen in their eyes

I _super_ don't agree that "gui has all the tools" in the specific context of no-code platforms though. Show me one and I'll eat my hat. I'll really doubt you can

@12bitfloat i said "even if", meaning I'm not actually saying no-code has all the tools. what i am saying is that it's not the rationale behind most critiques. if that's not how you think, then great, i wasn't talking about you

@darksideofyay I guess I kinda inferred that part. But yeah I mostly agree

@darksideofyay Human friendly text-based state has a lot of advantages some of which I listed above, and most of the challenges involved in creating software are orders of magnitude harder than learning the syntax unless you use a language built around syntax magic like Ruby or Python, so I'd like to turn that around and say that a tool that fails to demonstrate the transparency and flexibility of code needs some serious advantages. Being presented with a clicky menu of my options isn't really an advantage since code completion with fuzzy matching is basically the same thing - and in the case of a strict language it's at least as context-aware as a graphical menu too.

@darksideofyay for me it’s not about gatekeeping, if another dev prefers to use gui for tasks which I do with cli that’s good… whenever works from him.
I feel the need to shit of gui when I’m forced to do repetitive operations on clunky graphical interfaces when a cli would be much more convenient and easier to automate (I.E. Redmine time tracking, that gui sends me into a primal rage every time).

The easiest would be a no-user approach.

@darksideofyay Actually sometimes GUI abstract most of the underlying concept making "unnecessary" to learn them and if it works for the user that's ok.

Software development is a process based on specific requirements and resources. The discovery phase is necessary in order not to waste resources, but to use them wisely. You could even say that the detection phase (Devlight - https://devlight.io/blog/... ) determines the overall success or failure of a product.