snapd and flatpak, are more harm than use. popularizing bloatware junk in a fairly clean ecosystem like linux, is neither good for devs nor users. linux distributions are already a mess for desktop use, let's not make it worse.

Right, because saving $0.03 per GB of extra storage is apparently worth more than distributing software as a single reusable, distro-independent package which doesn't require specific third-party dependencies, doesn't place files all over your system, and isn't affected by changes to your system.

I agree. There is a fine line between democratization and widespread mess.

@hitko It's not only bloated but also has way slower startup time

@theKarlisK Even if your hourly rate is just $5, it's cheaper to pay for 60 GB of duplicated dependencies, than it is for you to spend an hour trying to get some legacy software up and running due to dependency issues. And maintaining a single package that can run out-of-the-box on a wide range of distros is way cheaper than maintaining a different package for each distro, even if it requires having duplicated dependencies everywhere.

@hitko the issue with flatpack is that dependencies are not upgradeable. If they have issues they are not patched by the OS update

@iiii On the other hand, OS updates only provide patches for a limited time, while you can easily run an up-to-date snap with patched dependencies even on an older OS where patched dependencies are otherwise not available.

@hitko true, it's two sided. But distros are usually updating packages with security patches much faster than separate app developers.

@iiii That heavily depends on the package and the distro, as well as on the severity of the issue and how the fix impacts compatibility with other packages within the distro - if the fix requires some API change, most distros won't include it until the next major distro release.

@hitko yes, I understand where you're coming from, however the possibility of a package having outdated dependencies is, imo, much higher than it being ahead of the mainstream distro.

@iiii Right, but tell me what percentage of global infrastructure runs on the latest mainstream distros?

@hitko do they even use flatpacks at that point? I doubt so.

@iiii I guess it depends, but I can assure you there's a much greater chance of a system receiving updates if apps and the system can be updated independently.

@theKarlisK You're assuming an ideal environment where all systems are up-to-date, there's no need to run legacy software, and everyone has the ability to maintain their software according to the best practices. I'm pretty sure no one would think of using snaps or flatpak in such an environment, but guess fucking what, that's not what we have to deal with in practice. Snapd and flatpak are practical solutions to practical problems, and people like you are just complaining because those are still flawed in some way.