Alright, i'm fucking done.

Fedora: Packages are self-referencial, using the system is like sprinting through a fucking minefield.

Linux Mint: "lol just don't update packages on the repo because shit can't break if it never updates! Don't add custom repos either or we'll just fucking break your PC."

Debian Raw: "We have all of 5 packages on our repos and GPG is fucking broken so you can't add more repos."

Arch: "Have fun modifying the boot disk for 30 hours so it'll boot, and let's tack on another 30 to make it install properly."

Gentoo: "LOL what is swap. Let's just pipe garbage into this partition as fast as the disk will let us for literally no reason. I'm sure you can still use the system for all of 30 minutes, at which point your SSD will give out. No big deal..."

when did Linux go to shit?

Windows isn't any better without billions of tweaks and then a build upgrade (in that order specific) to make it run properly.

Nor is OSX, as it runs on the model of "lol gotta hack your own PC to run custom unapproved binaries!"

Fuck it.

I'm installing DOS.

I cannot confirm your experience with Debian and Mint:
- My gpg never broke, importing keys for repositories never failed.
- Only rule for third party repositories is, only use them for (additional or newer) programs, not for updating/replacing core libraries; drivers are allowed, most of the times, if the kernel is still supported.

About Arch and Gentoo: What did you expect?

Yeah ? You think OS updates are hard ?
Have you ever tried update a Microsoft NuGet package in Microsoft .Net solution ?
ME : Oh look Azure function SDK is at 2.5 now ! I’m at 2.4, let’s update !
*Clicks update”
Compiler : YO BRUH ! I have no idea what’s going on, but a .target file is wrong.
Me : What .target file ?
Compiler : One of these 100 : <list>
Me : -verbose. Any more news ?
Compiler : Yeaaaaah some target tries to do <solutiondir>/binbin.
Me : Ok, missing a “/” somewhere.
Compiler : Yeah, but I won’t tell you where.
Me : Dude, I need it in production in 5 hours
Compiler : You know what ? roll back. And BTW JSON is locked at v11. I don’t care 12 is out for more than a year. 11 Only. So just never upgrade this package in all others projects you use.
Me : Rolling back packages. FINE
I guess I’ll try in about 10 months.

@NoToJavaScript ever have to untangle 60,000 packages because apt wanted to force-install i386, amd64 and arm64 packages of all 60,000, plus the usual hold-back-but-also-upgrade hell?
I had to manually remove all 3 with dpkg so as not to remove EVERY package (all packages wanted to remove all other packages as dependencies, all the way to DE and kernel.) then add one. Repeat till the package installs.

(also, yes, but it was VS2003 to VS2007 compatibility issues.)

Or just use a preconfigured arch like manjaro

@Parzi No, And to be honest : I don't want to :)

But I'll take a beer in your name

@tekashi Never heard of it, but seeing how Arch usually goes here (as told by dR members that DON'T have their heads firmly up Arch's ass) and my experiences with pacman on other systems, prolly not. Might be preconfigured, still Arch under the hood, so it'll generally have the same issues. I don't have a backup medium I can mirror my SSD to every time I wanna update or install a single package.

Worked well for me for ~3 years and i fucking suck with linux stuff

@NoToJavaScript i would appreciate that. kinda wish i was legally able to drink, as that would probably help here (assuming I don't end up potentially fucking dead from a buzz, as my entire lineage has that issue (their bodies see alcohol and shut down if any amount more than 4 or so oz has entered their mouths.))

@tekashi i'm also exceeding my monthly bandwidth quota for the month, so that doesn't help either. Maybe if I can successfully loiter in the local Walmart for 5 or so straight hours, i'll give it a shot.

What the fuck is a bandwidth quota, do you live in venezuela or something?

@tekashi Bandwidth cap: Combined upload/download restrictions that place a hard limit on how much you can transfer. Ours is 1GB < x < 500GB, and we're only told when we go over.

We are running off a phone with a hotspot, but without the fun of being a phone. Google "NETGEAR M1 Nighthawk".

This is literally the only internet available for the next 10 years. I live in the US.

@Parzi MIAM :) 30 last days. It's in French, but you'll get numbers

Edit : And I get 135 Mbits instead of promissed 120. Yep, I'm getting a little more than promissed

@tekashi i would also like to add the following:
I'm in the USA, and we're on AT&T.
Title 2 being fucking ded means:

1. No one HAS to tell us our actual cap. And they won't, as then they can charge overages.
2. No one HAS to tell us how much we've used. At all. The """router""" tells us the daily/regional use, but that's all. The M2 doesn't even do THAT much, so... (and, yes, again, this is all to get those sweet, sweet overages.)
3. No one HAS to give us a static bandwidth cap. For the third time, this is for overage fees and nothing else.
4. They charge $500 for one month's overage fee, PER GIG. Well, for us. No one else has this ridiculous of fees, not even other AT&T customers. We can't bitch or they'll just shut us down. We can't sue as this is not only legal due to anti-T2 lobbying but they can also just countersue until we're bankrupt.
5. They silently extended our contract to 10 years. No notice, no legal proceeds. They just... did.

@NoToJavaScript don't rub it in...

@M1sf3t see above.

Lol my man switch to CentOS like the rest of us. No one in the industry uses the distros you listed

@arcsector "in the industry"

this is because CentOS is Fedora but built for a corporate setting.

In other words, meant to be remotely controlled and configured, while leaving the local user hosed.

but yeah i'll prolly use that. I remember having some issues with it in a VM, but eh.

@Parzi using VMware or vb?

Ubuntu with PPAs?

The BSD's are waiting for you :)

I went from S.U.S.E 5.3 -> Slackware 7 -> distro hopping -> mac OSX panther, tiger -> distro hopping -> FreeBSD.

Spent the last 5-6 years in FreeBSD and I feel at home.

@arcsector both iirc, but it was a while ago.

@aggelalex too bloated on initial install, and I can get PPAs on anything running apt.

@slar eh... BSD seems a little weird, but i'll look into it.

@Parzi for sure. All of my stuff is running 7.4 or higher. Everything has been so much more stable since they moved to Systemd. Definitely gave it the push for it to be my goto

@Parzi Now there's this minimal install option in Ubuntu.

@aggelalex after how many years? lol never again

Linux peasants 😂

@aviophile multiple possible counters:

"LOL winfag"

"LOL mac dick sucker"

I develop for Linux containers and have a long history with Linux. I develop open source software. Linux is my preference for desktop computers.

However I prefer MacOS for my dev machine because unlike what is mentioned above it is really UNIX under the hood. Parts of the OS is poorly documented, rarely locked down, but still far more open than Windows by a long shot. Install brew and make an exception if you ever need to install unsigned software. It is really stupid simple to use, has very nice UI consistency, and it rarely breaks. It probably is going to run on a computer with very good build quality. The only downside is that you pay a bit more for the level of polish. (Not much more than high end PC.) They are still going to be one of the most sure-bet computers on the market.

@irene or, and hear me out:

an OS that doesn't force you to hack it to allow unsigned, unapproved-by-Apple code.

And has a GUI that isn't fucking garbage.

Oh, and runs on more than 5 total approved hardware configs.

@M1sf3t

>You may have to get an alternate window manager

Oh, I'd like that, too. Which one do you recommend?

@dfox downvote abuse, possibly by parzi himself based on the answer?

@JoshBent oh shit, that was meant to be a ++

@Parzi guess that solves it :)

@theKarlisK lol what an idiotic install method

also thanks for reminding me why I had issues with CentOS: the package update scheme. I do all kinds of dev shit and need updated devtools.

@M1sf3t by "hack it to run unapproved code" i mean brew. As i've heard it's hard to install on earlier versions of OSX and requires basically rewriting a few things to do so.

@Parzi then *BSD isn't an option either

@Parzi Installing brew doesn’t involve “hacking”. It is just git and ruby. It is all self contained and won’t install files outside of its prefix.

It is “hacking” as much as installing Firefox is “hacking”.

@irene i did say that i was referring to earlier OSX, remember. This is also just what i've been told, as I don't have much experience with Macs, so I very well could be completely wrong.

@Parzi It hasn’t really been locked down much since 2001. Normally the comments about how locked down it is comes from end users that are pushed to comply with safeguards in a GUI. For example if you run an installer from the internet you will be prevented if it is from an unsigned unknown developer but you can override it with a single click if you are technical enough to know how to open the system setting and security area. Then the GUI also forces you to comply with the UNIX underpinnings so if installers require sudo you have to enter your password. Although the loudest griping I heard was that you can’t disable the login screen and boot straight to the desktop. (Also a UNIX thing.) You used to be able to do that in Windows. You also have to trigger a USB unplug because umounting is not automatic in Unix .

The OS runs an open source BSD kernel called Darwin and has a very polished window manager and set of tools on top which is MacOS. Window manager is proprietary but not locked down and source code isn’t available.

So you are wrong in the rant but there are plenty of other gripes that are valid about MacOS. 😋

@theKarlisK centOS is on the "hard-stable" model, due to its enterprise nature, so some packages are older than all of us combined.

Im just gonna say there's a ~40 min video on youtube that guides you step by step on arch install. I can look it up for you if you'd like.
Been using arch with i3wm for quite a while now. Would change it for anything (i even have two nvidia gpus working with less than an hours work in config)

@irene that's fair, then.

@not-user-telken i'd rather not have to force it to boot install media, then force it to install proper, and i've seen a couple "easy-setup" guides and they didn't work.

@Parzi don't bother with arch - coming from somebody that used arch and uses arch, aur is great and all, but fucking with it gets boring if you have wonky hardware.

@Parzi I've tried a ton and eventually settled on: https://system76.com/pop (basically polished ubuntu 19.x) it did break the login manager once, because I've had a power-cut during a system update, but since then no issues.

@JoshBent Pop is a very nice distro. Have you tried the Librem distro? I keep thinking about buying a librem computer.

@irene never heard or used librem distro, will have to look it up first to give you any impression :)

@irene ah, I've come across it before, just never gave it a try as it just sounds like a poor implementation, similar to their librem chat fork thing or whatever they had. If you want what they advertise this reskin - use tails or qubesOS.

@irene honestly it's refreshing tagging this nickname and not having to calm an actual imbecile, that e. g. takes things out of context on purpose, thanks again for locking it.

@irene regarding librem hardware, I've heard all sorts of things about it, mainly that for what you get, it's overpriced, though their actual desktop computer looked interesting and is FOSS, incl. all fancy controllers and such they have in it.

@JoshBent I think I would rather go for the System 76 desktops. They are beautiful.