Agree?

Anyone who looks down on a person for whatever reason despite clear evidence that said person is competent is an idiot.

In my experience self taught folks can be just as cancerous about hating on college grads. Cut it out, people. Write code, get along, make stuff.

How do you correctly use a phrase once and fuck it up 5 words later?

Obv. Skill is skill no matter how you get it.

That said, I do look down on modern MBAs because the programs now admit people straight out of undergraduate studies, which totally invalidates the value proposition of an MBA.

I wish I didn't need a fucking CS degree just to get a job. I guarantee you I know more as a first semester student than many juniors out there (maybe even some seniors from what I gather from rants around here). Like dude I don't need a CS degree to use JavaScript.

Do MBAs tend to run existing businesses or actually found them?

I mean Bill Gates never graduated, Sam Walton had an economics degree, and I cannot tell if Steve Jobs got a degree or not. All 3 started hugely successful businesses. I am pretty use they hired MBAs to run them.

@RememberMe Well said, stay humble - life is more comfortable and more enjoyable this way.

I’m a grad and I’m jealous of self-taught folks because they think out of the box right from the start. I, on the other hand, have that grad rails, or framework, which allow me to build things quickly and get things done properly, but I’m not an inventor.

@RememberMe the first part is too generalized to agree. There are many reasons to look down on people.

In some contexts, you can not trust self-taught “crowd”. I may trust them to develop simple website or a mobile app but would not let them near aerospace applications.

@aviophile "despite clear evidence that said person is competent" covers that. The evidence you're looking for varies by application.

And also in that case you'd question said self taught person's suitability for the project, yes, but not their competence in general ("competent, but maybe not certified". Or "competent at webdev, but not at aero"). It's certainly not a reason to look down on them as somehow inferior, which is the point of my post. That's a pretty low thing to do anyway.

@aviophile lol, what about system that control nuclear waste, or controls robotic systems and xray heads that emit 150K rads/min? Done both and a lot more. Often as the sole developer.

As a programmer I am mostly self taught. I have a background in electrical, but I had one class in pascal and one in assembly language.

@Demolishun You had a useful background and might be exception(or self reporting bias, dunno) but I would not let any self-taught individual near safety critical systems. Sometimes, perseverance does not just cut it.

@aviophile I have been working on a designing safety critical systems for over 20 years.

@aviophile Why do you feel as though self-taught programmers shouldn’t be trusted with high risk work, exactly? You realize that not every degree program is up to the same standard and that you can get through university without ever retaining any of the knowledge you gained there?

Speaking as someone who majored in psychology and anthropology and had a solid grade point average overall (despite having severe untreated sleep apnea through 3/4 of it), I don’t remember most of what I learned from my degree.

@AmyShackles university is not a place to memorize but to learn how to think. It provides efficient foundation to understand higher concepts. Statistics and probability concepts tell me it is waste of time to try to fut them in safety critical software. Exceptions do not disprove the rule.

I do not trust self taught doctors with heart/brain surgery. You wouldn’t also.

Plus, physcological studies has 50% reproducibilty rate, don’t be sad that you forgot from a field that has correct claims as frequent as coin toss comes head.

@aviophile well, anything, absolutely anything can be learnt given effort.

@BugsBuggy I can become a blacksmith after studying as software developer(no similar knowledge foundation). My question is, would you wear the armor I crafted to battle. Would you prefer to get on an educated pilot’s airliner or hobby pilot’s plane. Certification and regulation works in some areas, they save lives.

Everyone can learn anything is a cheap virtue signalling.

@aviophile Well, people like Gates, Jobs and Zuckerberg have time and again emphasised on the fact that they are more into hiring an intelligent person who's good at problem solving, rather than someone with a degree, because a smart person can learn really quickly, adapt and improvise; and using their problem solving skills deliver better solutions. Zuckerberg even mentioned someone he hired who had a degree in Electrical Engineering. [Hey Zucky, I have a degree in Electronics :P, me please? ]

Now coming back to your question.

If you look around, you'd see some professions are knowledge oriented involving problem solving, like medicine; and some are problem solving oriented involving knowledge, like Software Development.

You can't go to a doctor who doesn't have a degree; but even the FAANG companies hire engineers without a degree in computer science.

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@aviophile
When hired at a junior level, be it someone with a degree or without; will need to pick up new skills. A smarter person will grasp more, and maybe, cover up for that lack of degree in the specified field, pretty quickly.

So yeah, if you were hired at a junior level, worked with people who have experience in making a battle armour, learnt from them; then I wouldn't hesitate in wearing an armour built by you.

Some people say, professions like medicine, and law have no provision of hiring someone who doesn't have the degree, then well, those degrees have, mostly, some mandatory practice; obtaining which otherwise isn't possible... But that's not the case in our profession.

Depends. Do they use JavaScript?