Do all the things like ++ or -- rants, post your own rants, comment on others' rants and build your customized dev avatarSign Up
From the creators of devRant, Pipeless lets you power real-time personalized recommendations and activity feeds using a simple APILearn More
how good is force touch?
I keep hearing about it and reading about it but I'm skeptical that any non-physical thing could feel like an actual button click.
@Wisecrack man, it feels even better than actual click. Buttons wear out but simulated things like force touch live forever. Also the pressure needed to actually perform a click is perfectly even no matter the actual spot you click.
You can also choose between two different click sounds: the hi-frequency-ish edgier one and the deeper, more silent one. I prefer the latter.
After force touch trackpad it’s hard to use old style trackpads even on older MacBooks
> Butterfly keyboard that internet hates so much
You probably don't mean it this way. This sounds like it's unfounded. It's not, there are genuine reliability issues with the butterfly mechanism. Apple abandoned it and went back to the scissors mechanism for that reason.
@Wisecrack it feels damn close to the click of a physical button. In day to day use of various touchpads I don't notice a difference.
As an aside, I recommend against touchpads. They strain the wrist a lot, especially quick swipe gestures. Well, at least for me. Something to keep in mind if you get wrist or forearm pains and wonder where they come from.
> Buttons wear out but simulated things like force touch live forever
The linear actuators that produce the simulated click can fail, too. Don't get me wrong, force touch is kinda cool, but this is a bad argument.
> how to explain that I never had an issue with it
It's not that all keyboards or all keys failed. So not everyone had an issue. You're part of the luckier group. That's the explanation. (As am I, btw. Some of my MacBook Pro's keys started feeling "crunchy" even though I treat it with utmost care. Luckily, no failure so far.)
How's this for an analogy: Let's say you bought a lottery ticket, but didn't win. Just because you didn't, it doesn't mean there's no lottery winners at all. Same principle.
@VaderNT linear actuator can fail but if it works, it works, the moving part are actuated by magnetic field. Without physical damage to the hinges that holds the moving part, this construction will last a lot longer than a button. In the physical button there’s always a microspark between contacts which build up carbon residue and that’s why buttons wear out.
With lottery ticket argument, I agree. Butterfly keyboard failures are undeniable
olback115361yAlways nice to see people supporting a company that sues people who repair their own devices.
Sure, Apples devices/ecosystem might be nice, but the company is super anti-consumer.
Give it a bit of time, when all your stuff throttles itself and refuses to install updates / app its fully capable of running you might be more than just a little annoyed.
Unless you have the disposable capital to just keep throwing lots of money at it, anyway.
No worries, no offense taken. (although I'm really wondering how on earth you can fuck up Manjaro KDE with only clicking a settings thing.... manjaro thing? I I've Kubuntu running still as smooth as day 1)
Are the prices lower over there or are you willing to pay a lot for convenience? Like, the iPhone x starts at over 1K here, which I find insanely expensive for a phone (for comparison, I have a Moto G5 Plus with a custom rom (android 9/Lineage based) which runs fucking smooth but cost me about 60-70 euro). I can hardly justify a phone more expensive than 200 euro for myself.
As for Macbooks, the ones with the specs I'd need start at about 2,5K here (computer compared), the lower spec ones ('only' 2/4gb ram etc) start at around 900/1K.
For the first option I bought computer parts and built a desktop for around 500 (saving me 2K in comparison to a Macbook), for the second option (for doing stuff on the road etc) I currently have a 200 (got it second hand) euro Microsoft Surface 3 Pro running Pop OS which will soon be replaced by a phonebook which goes at 100 dollar.
For me, those devices provide all the convenience I want/need, for the record.
I don't have a smartwatch yet, waiting for a stable release of the the PineTime (25 dollar, programmable).
The main reason I don't use apple stuff is that its systems are proprietary and thus we can't check whether there are backdoors or not, but I also don't find their OS's convenient at all.
And of course, the price(s). If I'd buy everything I'd conveniently want, I once estimated about 10K in total, right now in total at around 1K I think... (including computer/laptop/tablet(x2)/phone/headphones/watch (non-smart).
For the record, not trying to bash you, genuine question(s)!
@LesMore But I'd like it if the layer that I can possibly control with my knowledge is at least reviewable.
Omnisus4301y@LesMore It all depends what are you doing. For office work and some programming I am using i3, 4gb ram small laptop with SSD(I drop it and this is why I change it) and linux with tilling windows manager. Only problem is small screen, but it isn`t suitable for any gaming or heavy duty work so it depends.
Whatever works for you and makes your job done.
For phones (and I’ve owned all kinds and I’m an Android dev) you can’t beat apple. I also love the iPad.
MacBooks are crap, overpriced, crappy keyboard, throttling, macOS is terrible now a days. so many things wrong it’s hard to know where to begin, I have a MacBook Air and do not use it except to run Xcode once every so often.
Apple are now making all your MacBooks obsolete,everything is moving to arm, time will tell how that goes.
Windows is only good for gaming, it’s full of telemetry and I get sick of trying to disable it after the next update that breaks the OS.
Linux has its quirks and I’ve tried many distros. I’ve currently settled on Manjaro Xfce. It’s amazingly stable, fast and has everything I need, for daily use, developing etc.
I am interested in the arm based macs but only because of the decrease in resource use, but time will tell.
theuser51231yGood for you, but I honestly cannot justify the pricing.
@eval I don't actively use a laptop so that would be a false comparison but I've recently seen very affordable dell/lenovo laptops which have amazing specs for under 1K. (at least 32gb ram)
@dontknowshit Define can't beat apple? In software? In hardware? In what? I've had an iPhone to try it out and I was so fucking glad when I got my new android device so that I could stop using the iPhone.
@linuxxx in terms of the overall package, iPhones are way ahead. The os is snappy and fast, android phones have so many quirks and performance issues/bugs. The hardware is built better, they are just better. I know plenty of people who think the opposite or just hate on Apple. I’m neither a fan bit of Apple or hate Android, this has just been my experience
@dontknowshit My 3 years old phone with custom rom (android 9) runs very smooth and only one tiny issue so I don't share that experience.
But it also depends on what you define as way ahead. In pricing they are, I don't know many people who can afford iPhones.
As for OS, I wouldn't find a nearly completely locked down/proprietary OS ahead at all. I'd like to have full control of the software and not be dependent on a commercial software vendor for patches and updates.
I've had an iPhone for about 5 weeks and I find the OS highly intuitive and to get this fucker working with Linux or basic things as importing contacts... that's insanely hard to impossible.
@linuxxx you definitely don't.
If you are happy with linux as your main OS and don't need portability, it would make 0 sense to buy mac.
If you need performance and portability, and don't mind spending the extra 2-300 for OSX (because you like it or want to use apps that are win/osx only without too much tinkering), then a MacBook pro is great. As long as we can agree that windows is crap, i'm ok :D
My abdroid runs as smooth as my moms iphone. I get more flexibility though, even without a custom rom. At least i can install an APK without gplay...
Also, it cost me 250 and has a just as good if not better camera.
As for the mechanical build quality, that's just not really true. I've dropped my phone all the time without breaking, while my mom and sister (apple fanboys) always break theirs. I won't say mine is more robust though... It just comes down to what exactly happens, and a huge part is just luck. You get stories from both sides - in the end i believe:
Yes, iphones have quite good build quality, but so do like 50% of Android phones. You just have more choice....
Always remember, Android is just a OS. The end result, both SW and HW wise is mostly up to the actual manufacturer.
@linuxxx every android phone I’ve ever tried is just not as snappy as an iPhone, the feel is not the same, everything has a small amount of delay compared to an iPhone.
I just want my phone to work, I don’t care if the OS is closed source as long as it achieve the above.
As for custom roms I haven’t tried any recently but last time I did they were buggy as hell.
iPhones were not on top a few years ago, but importing contacts is no longer a problem as well as many other improvements that just put them out in front for me.
@eval what portability have I lost exactly by using Linux? Mac OS is not performant, the latest version has quite a few issues, not to mention it’s a dead OS. When ARM Based MacBooks start hitting the shelves next year.
Windows is crap because of the spyware and broken updates, otherwise it’s not “that” bad.
@dontknowshit the portability part was about using desktop vs Laptop because for desktops macs are even more overpriced.
I have a xiaomi redmi note 8 pro, and i honestly don't know what you mean with the delay. Everything is super smooth.
If you're talking about safari loading pages quicker, that is because of some non standard caching behavior that overall does more harm than good. I can live happily without that!
@eval I see, well I don’t care about portability, I’m stuck in doors like most other people for the foreseeable future lol.
I don’t mean loading web pages faster, there are many factors that can affect this.
I mean, general usuage, pressing the screen (ui) typing, general usage is just not as snappy and it’s very noticeable.
@dontknowshit I have experienced that as well but not on my current phone/rom.
As for the closed vs open source, this is definitely a thing for me. With closed source systems you can't verify shit and thus I'd rather not use it. But especially since apple is integrated in one of world's biggest (illegal) mass surveillance programs... I'll take my privacy and security.
"they" - hahaha. There are more than I can count so unless you tried them all, that's not really an argument imo. There aren't many that work smooth/near flawless for my current phone but my current rom does.
Importing contacts was just an example, can one import vcf files by now?
But other than that, I refuse to login with an online account on my phone (apple id or gmail account), I need (NEED) an sd card slot, headphone input, root access (it's my goddamn phone and thus I want goddamn control), customizable interface... and so on. It's just not for me.
Oh, and, I'd like to spend below 1K for a fucking phone! (I love phones with big displays and those iPhones start at like 1500 euro over her)
@dontknowshit Oh and as for snappyness (cc @eval), there are slightly bigger delays on some android apps in comparison to iPhones (but also the other way around, from my own experience) but if I have to wait half a second longer or even a whole (!!!) second, the 1400 euro I'm saving with not having an iPhone right now quite justify this for me :)
@linuxxx I prefer open source for sure, but sometimes using closed source is inevitable. It’s a trade off.
The advantages of me using an iPhone are worth the trade off for me. Ye this phone cost £1500 or close to it, but it but I’ve had it nearly 2 years, it’s still as good as the day I got it and the battery is still very good, it will last many more years.
I’m not one of these people they buys the latest Apple products every year, that is a waste of money, before this I owned an iPhone 6, which I only replaced because I smashed the screen and the after market one I replaced it with wasn’t as good
@dontknowshit I do agree with that but I'm just a little stronger minded about open source.
Maybe it's also because I'm in the world of cyber security and the change of getting target for surveillance is higher than normal, thus I don't want to use iOS. (so, for security and privacy reasons).
But damn, that's nearly 1700 euro! No way on earth I'd pay that for a phone haha.
But then also, what do I do with a smartphone? I mostly use Firefox, Signal (fuck WhatsApp), sms, calling, SSH... that's about it? I don't (except for this one) use any social media or other messengers than Signal either so yeah..
But I'll soon be going for a PinePhone! I just have to find a signal client that works with Linux and I should be good :) (150 dollar)
@linuxxx I actually refuse to use any social media, I too only use signal and I do banking from my phone, occasional web browsing, not much really since lockdown.
I have no reason to SSH from my phone, which is still possible.
Im not doubting you but I’m interested as to why you think iPhones are so insecure? Or is it that you think Apple is collecting all users data and using it for their own gain?
@dontknowshit Join the signal club haha.
I manage about 20-40 servers so it's kinda a requirement :)
Well, I'm going to use Kerckhoff's principle here; can you show me that iOS is secure? Can we get the code publicly reviewed by cyber security specialists who are good at this? If not, why on earth would I be able to find it secure? I, or people who are qualified to do judge this, can't even remotely verify this haha.
For all we know apple could include backdoors but as long as we can't verify the code... We can't verify shit. And since the 2013 Snowden revelations I'm wary about this since documents appeared showing a secret NSA iPhone backdoor program + snowden refusing to use apple products because he says they contain NSA spying capabilities. I'm not blindly trusting him on his word but.... I can't verify this which I'd like to if I'd were to use the product.
@dontknowshit so it isn't about the "overall package" after all, and only about performance? I think you're moving the goalpost. You've moved it to the one thing where Apple actually is ahead: Their custom silicon.
Because here's the thing: When one says "better", the question is "better for what"? I absolutely want a headphone jack, USB-C and an SD card slot. And that means the iPhone isn't only not "just better", it a flat out failure as it provides none of that.
@VaderNT I accidentally reported your comment, sorry.
I was only talking about custom silicon in terms of laptops and desktops.
I get what you are saying but I have no need for an sd card, I’ve never used them on any android phone I’ve ever owned, except to augment the lack of internal storage but my iPhone has enough, and anything else I can use a cloud storage provider or my own hosted solution.
I have an adapter that gives me a headphone jack and I use Bluetooth headphones.
I don’t need usb-c on my phone.
I understand some people do want those things but I’m willing to give them up for what I see as the other advantages (for me) of owning an iPhone.
@dontknowshit That entirely depends on how it's programmed haha. Is it something that's listening? Easy to detect. Is it something that triggers when a specific incoming http header has a specific value? Without source, you'd probably never figure this out.
And as for the likeliness, I would agree if it were not for the fact that apple is also integrated within the PRISM mass surveillance network.
> I accidentally reported your comment, sorry.
Don't worry about it. 🙂
> I understand some people do want those things but I’m willing to give them up for what I see as the other advantages (for me) of owning an iPhone.
That's fair, we talked past each other. When I read "iPhones are just better", to me this is equivalent to saying "iPhones are just better *objectively*" or "iPhones are just better *for everyone*".
As I understand you now, you actually mean "iPhones are just better *for me*". Yeah, I'm cool with that. Use what works best for you. 👍