Posts disappearing off this platform. Should I be worried? Speech seems to be getting dangerous across the web.

wut disappeared?

It’s getting dangerous everywhere.
Thanks, left.

Yes. Either dfox feels frenzy or downvoted

Don't confuse censorship and removal of shitposts

@nitwhiz

Yeah it really depends on 'what' it is.

I used to moderate a gaming forum way way way back when. The sheer volume of freeze peaches type rants because someone mashed on their keyboard and shit on other users or whatever and thought someone else should host it was endless ...

@N00bPancakes Some people have a tendency of using words they don't understand in the wrong context

Obligatory xkcd as deleting certain contain isn't always a bad thing:

https://xkcd.com/1357/

@N00bPancakes Someone posted something about maintaining services in a environment with spotty connections. They were also asking about power sources. It seemed to be a playful "when the world ends" kind of post. Then it was just gone. I would not have cared normally (nor worried about it), but facebook and twitter (and others) are silencing voices all across the web. I worry that the one platform I feel is above all that garbage is falling prey to this as well.

I also totally agree with the bullshit/shitposts should die in a fire. But as far as I can tell there is a due process we follow with downvotes.

Perhaps I am ultra sensitive. I am fine with that if that is the case.

@Demolishun

It's hard to know intent.

I know there's a rule (real or not) about 'political posts' around here... but straight up some folks who push that have no problem with posting their own 'political posts'...

Everything can be defined as political if someone wants it to be..... that's a really vague term.

@N00bPancakes yes, very true.

@Demolishun You are right there. FB, IG and Twitter all supports Cancel culture. If you disagree you are cut off. Few times on IG I disagreed about some political stuff, they deleted my comments.

@k0pernikus

The issue with that argument is that tech companies do act like pseudo governments, nearly forming a monopoly controlling all the soapboxes you can stand on.

On the other hand, there's a serious issue with online opinion bubbles — And I think that's where the answer lies. De-bubble people.

@bittersweet
Debubbling is either forced by law - or it will not happen.

And the reason are ads. People in average spend more time on your site if you keep feeding them what they already know (not sure why that is the case). And "social" sites are basically glorified billboards today. Their real purpose is to derve ads.

I hate that auto-bubbling algorithms too. But for the time being we will probably have to keep entering random gibberish into the search field on youtube to get videos from channels we don't already know about...

@Demolishun Stuff doesn't usually get deleted here aside from spam or really low quality posts. It's most likely the OP removed it if you can't find it.

@Root how exactly is "the left" making speech dangerous lol

@buried I was already too political.

But let’s just point at their hatred of free speech, their love of censorship, their screaming at anyone who doesn’t agree, etc. Also, as pointed out earlier in this thread, leftist social medias (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Tumblr, YouTube, etc.) deleting any content they don’t agree with, demonetizing, and outright banning. It’s amazing to note just where these things happen, and the ideologies of those responsible. Quite a bit of commonality.

And there are political figures that act in the same way, and even actively encourage the behavior in their constituents and followers. Where do they think it will lead? Where do you think it will lead?

@Root

"Tech companies" aren't people and their POV and actions are far more complex than a direction... I bet you're just as likely to encounter their libertarian side and distaste of regulations and etc as anything else as far as their actions go.

@buried Bur to answer your question personally:

If I don’t pretend to be a staunch leftist at work, my employer would fire me. Read some of my rants about it; I posted one recently. They label anyone who doesn’t follow their exact ideology evil, a racist, a dangerous alt-right actor, a nazi, etc.

I’m a libertarian, and basically dead center politically. I’m not on the left or right. And yet, if I were to tell them my views of “leave everyone alone” and “personal accountability,” it would be too foreign to them and they would hate me for it.

How do I know?
Read my rants; there are plenty of examples.

@Root based on your views, you sound to me like a right-wing cultural liberalist. Right-wing meaning your economic views (power of the wealthy), and cultural liberalism meaning the freedom of individuals from cultural norms. To me it doesn't sound centrist, but rather the far end of either axis.

But the same words often mean complete opposite things in politics, probably because words are demonised from time to time and politicians need to figure out new ways to market their views to the voters. And what they actually support once in power is yet another thing.

I find it hard to even imagine that a multinational company would be leftist, as that's so contradictory with regards to economic views.

How your employer treats your freedom to an opinion sounds straight up criminal.

@Demolishun the downvotes get cancelled though if they are deemed by higher powers to be cast inappropriately. It's not much of a voting system, is it. https://devrant.com/rants/3823467/...

@Root Just watched a bunch of accounts get suspended on twitter today (no violations besides ideology). DDOS attacks against alt platforms. I find it peculiar people don't have a clue what is happening. But, as people have pointed out, everyone is in their own ideological bubble. I have been there as well. Every time I turn around something new reveals itself. I told a colleague at work today that I now believe in unicorns. Sorry hear you are still behind enemy lines. I had hoped you would find a way out. I really really wish I had a crystal ball...

@electrineer I am absolutely not a far righty or a far lefty. No way.

Wealth belongs to those who earn it either by trading their skills for money, those who create value, or those who organize others’ skills to create something amazing. Not those who simply claim they deserve it but do nothing of note or use.

Perhaps I’m a classical liberal? I don’t know the meaning but I have heard the phrase.

People should be free to do as they want so long as they do not harm someone else. My rights end where they might harm another. Likewise, if anyone harms me or my property/wealth, they have violated my rights. Said more simply: don’t tread on me. Also: regulations are often evil and/or overkill. Some are required, though, I’ll agree to that. Same with some services that everyone pays for despite rarely using, like police, fire, etc. They improve your life by existing.

Mandatory taxation is theft. All taxes should be optional, as in: pay for road maintenance by taxing gas and tires. If you don’t use the roads, you don’t pay for the roads. Income tax is theft; I see no other way to look at it.

But anyway. To a far lefty (and there really aren’t many moderates anymore), anything to their right sounds like far-right, even if it’s centrist or slightly left.

So to my company? I would look like a hitler-loving militant righty who wants to ban their porn, annul their gay marriages, force them to have children, curb stomp blacks, and deport all the other colors. 🤦🏻‍♀️. And some idk about killing their businesses. Never understood that part since they supposedly hate big business (yet run almost all of them?) and the right has been screaming about helping small businesses since forever.

Whatever. I hide and pretend because it keeps the peace.

@Root you don't sound centrist at all with such pretty radical views.

@iiii The MSM paints anyone who does not agree with their narrative as far right.

Anyway, I don't see evidence of rational discussion being silenced on this forum. For this I am glad. It is a testament to this community. I have been ultra sensitive I think.

@iiii Those are literally libertarian views — the same as those held by the writers of the US constitution. So radical. Soo radical.

@Root Well, in 1776 they were radical.

I honestly think they did their best to create a "good and fair" system. Are we to the point where we need to reevaluate? I honestly don't know. High treason and corruption are not reasons to throw something away. To understand how we got where we are at is a better approach. Then make rational changes. I have to emphasize "rational" as the hyper charged media is anything but rational. Intellectually dishonest at best, most likely lying sacks of shit. However, my biases are getting the best of me.

@Demolishun It’s designed to keep corrupt and stupid human nature in check, and it has done so for a bit over 200 years. I don’t think it needs changing; perhaps some clarification because language has changed? Such as the 2nd amendment is apparently a little confusing to people.

Spelling things out clearly and simply is the only change i would ever consider making. Why? Because people are fucking morons and can’t understand anything past what is now a 5th grade education.

“People can buy, keep, and use guns (and their ammunition) to protect themselves, their families, their property, their community, their country, etc. Government and police cannot take these away. They can also use them for fun, hunting, etc.”

Could use some work, but I think that’s a great way to explain it to these “MUSKETS ONLY, OKAY!?” idiots.

Also:
Root is drunk.

@Root you got weird leftists around there... they sound alien to me. Then again, it’s a viewpoint thing. Left and right are always on a scale where the center is defined by the extremes: our rightmost political parties would be left of center on the US standards. And for me, they are way too far right. Then again, I don’t really care anymore either. I just wanted to point out that your opinions, from my point of view, sound extreme right, and I don’t recognize the left you are talking about. Also, afaik the far left is still rare as a dodo, and moderates keep being the majority. The few just make more noise - and it mostly comes from the right.

@100110111 Things like this make me incredibly glad I don’t live in Europe. Ya’ll don’t seem to know how to leave people well enough alone.

Laissez-faire, yo

@Root to each their own.

@PurgeXenos Over my years on the Internet, having made my own mistakes since a wee tyke, I have pissed off all sorts of people from many different places over the web and to this day, I still cannot comprehend how anybody can get a political post of theirs deleted on social media such as Facebook or Twitter unless they’ve posted something extremely fucking incorrect and stupid, and this is coming from someone who hates cancel culture too.

@Root

I do think blaming "The Left" for censorship is too much of a sweeping statement.

It assumes that politics are one dimensional — which might sadly be kind of true in some countries — and that either end of that dimension has highly homogenized opinions.

In both the US and EU there have been pro-censorship and anti-netneutrality politicians all over the spectrum.

Socialist/labour parties will target populist voters, Religious conservatives will target indecent material, Classic Free Market Liberals will question fair use of copyrighted material, etc.

Things get also more complicated because "freedom of expression" differs per jurisdiction, and philosophically it's not that clear cut where the lines should be drawn.

Most people would agree that voicing opinions in public should be an indisputable right.

But what if that "opinion" is a proven falsehood, only used to manipulate others? What if cults start forming around those opinions? What if that opinion is used to incite hate? What if it's a call for violence?

That tendency of fact manipulation within the borders of freedom of expression stretches into all political corners as well.

I used to lean pretty heavily to "people should be allowed to be wrong" direction, although I have to admit that I question that stance more and more often.

I used to believe that the people descending into conspiracies would always be a minority, most eventually being brought back into sensibility by those with reasonable opinions and debating skills.

Maybe this is just a bit of a mini dark age, and it will be followed by a renaissance again though.

I certainly hope so.

@Root I've read plenty of libertarian "centrist" posts online to get the gist at this point. Look man, this is a place to rant, so go crazy if you need to, especially if it helps you mentally cope. I mean this sincerely.

However, I have to say what you're giving me right now is major alt right vibes. I've had to deal with quite a few alt right colleagues, and let me tell you we're all better off if they keep their hatefilled rhetoric to themselves. They all think they're centrists even when they believe in "race realism" and "the great replacement". If you're worried about being labeled a Nazi for your genuine views, maybe consider your media diet.

And this idea that it's "the left" censoring is honestly laughable. Any actual leftist will attest to their opposition towards unjust hierarchies. Tech corporations care about the bottom line, not some ideological purity test. Racism just happens to be bad for business.

@Root your statement looks like a pure example of right-libertarianism. Which is not anywhere near center.

@buried No idea how I went from “I stand for leaving everyone alone” to “alt-right and hateful rhetoric” in your mind. That sort of mental gymnastics reminds me of my employer.

Also: I avoid news and social media altogether. It does absolutely nothing to improve my life.

@Root I've been very precise with my speech and have not accused you of anything. Just expressing what I feel you might be like, and it's setting off a lot of alarm bells honestly. You can get upset about it or not, I don't particularly care.

What I do care about is you making this about "the left" being pro-censorship when you seem to have very little grasp on what "the left" is about. "Just leave people alone" is not an political philosophy, it's a sales tactic by way of apathy to benefit the right. There's no substance there, so I can't take it at face value.

I think it's absolutely fine to complain about inauthenticity, especially on social media and in the workplace. We should talk about real issues, and you should not get fired for being wrong or making mistakes.

I don't think you're in the center, I think you're solidly right-leaning. As a socialist libertarian myself, I'm firmly on the left of course. Let's not play this "enlightened centrist" game, it's rather dull.

@Root It is obvious most people have no clue about current events. Nor the levels of corruption in play. When you have nations with military arsenals skirmishing in the pacific and active warfare in the middle east and nothing on MSM related to these events. Then at the same time you have massive amounts of military air hovering over the USA. On top of this you have one party, in conjunction with the MSM calling for a world leader to be removed from office about 10 days before he leaves office. A rational person might think: What is up with that? Never mind that a regime that is trying to protect a 100 Trillion dollar industry owns most aspects of the federal government and media organizations. If this sounds bizarre and far fetched, maybe there is something wrong with your media? Why have you not hear about this? Not you @root, I am speaking to the hypothetical person. Even a few weeks ago I would have said this is crazy.

@Root I can tell you had too much to drink. You are upvoting my nonsense.

@Demolishun I also think you sound crazy. (Also: not updoot worthy; that wasn’t intentional.)

@Root http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

@buried you used ad hominem and guilt by association in a short post. You would be great employee for these social media giants.

@aviophile You clearly don't know what an ad hominem even is.

@buried Thanks for agreeing with me on you using guilt by association at least. I accept your surrender.

Your ad hominem was: "...Go crazy if it helps you mentally cope" and "You give me alt-right vibes" without even learning what they really think about differing topics.

@aviophile or sharing any of his own.

@buried You clearly don’t know what a libertarian is despite so fervently claiming to be one, and that I am anything but. Go look it up. I’ll even give you a bloody link:

> https://duckduckgo.com//...

It’s honestly making me angry that you keep insisting that I am a righty and associating me with the crazies on that side. Your ad hominem and association fallacy worked, apparently.

@Root No no no this won't do at all.

I have two boxes right here: One filled with quinoa eating hippies with dreadlocks who have a yurt in their backyard and demand a state-paid basic income so they can keep living from their unprofitable Etsy shop, and one with inbred farmers and miners who hate non-whites for being on welfare, which threatens their state-paid corn and coal subsidies.

So, LEFT, or RIGHT, which are you?

COME ON CHOOSE YOUR HAT COLOR, BLUE OR RED, FUCKING HELL IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US YOU ARE AGAINST US, DAMMIT!

🙃

@buried
There you go calling me far right again.

Here, let me summarize this interaction for you:

Im saying I’m from New York, that I live in Queens, and like the city.

You come along and tell me that you’re a New Yorker, that you’ve read a lot about it, and tell me I’m not a New Yorker at all, but from Chicago.

I respond saying I’ve lived in New York my entire life, to which you tell me that I clearly don’t know where New York is, and that I sound just like someone from Chicago, and that all the people you know from Chicago are loudmouths and douches. And from everything I can gather, you’re not from New York at all, but from bloody LA.

And then you accuse me of making emotionally charged comments, and say it’s telling that this sets me off? Of course I’m getting angry at you. You have no bloody clue what you’re talking about and keep insisting on it.

This wasn’t a debate.
This was no different than me arguing with a five year old who is insisting that a spoon is called a fork.

@iiii centrist != non-radical. Also, "radical" just means "idea very different from mine". It's a relative term. 50 years ago, thinking everyone would have a tiny super computer in their pocket was "radical".

I feel very strongly about things, but those things are not absolutist in nature, and generally take into account concerns coming from both sides. Pragma over dogma. Hence, I feel I am a centrist.

@junon radical is a word with multiple meanings. Merriam-Webster defines one as "not bound by traditional ways or beliefs."

@junon

It's also possible to hold radical opinions on some topics, and very "normal" (as in, close to the norm) opinions on other topics. And it's possible to agree with rather extreme "rightwing" views on some topics, and rather extreme "leftwing" topics on others.

For example I'm very pro-free-market, and sympathize with some libertarian views.

But I'd call myself a "green libertarian", as I do think governments should tax the living hell out of polluters (manufacturing & transport) instead of taxing things like labor and trade. Someone who pollutes infringes upon my property rights, and should be discouraged from further polluting my environment.

I'm against many forms of subsidy, from housing to farming to modern art -- That should not be a government's job.

I'm extremely in favor of multiculturalism and immigration. Companies flourish with a diverse set of employees, and I think being stopped at a border as a human is fundamentally wrong.

So am I leftwing or rightwing?

@electrineer Yes, but in the way it's used here, radical is subjective and being used to dismiss another's viewpoints they do not agree with. It's a weaponized term.

@Root you don't have to be totally crazy to be "right" or "left". Isn't that your own fallacy this time?

@junon why are you talking to me?

@iiii exactly. Being right or left comes down to whether wealth should be distributed or not. All other properties related to right or left politics vary in time and place. There are limitless ways to be crazy whether you are right, left, or somewhere in between.

@bittersweet right wing can be populist just as well

@electrineer usually it’s the right wing who are the populist, as per my knowledge. Wouldn’t say leftists couldn’t be, but can’t think of any 🤔

@buried Why do you always resort to insults and exaggerations?

I’ve shared my views; you have yet to share any. I’ve explained my stances; you’ve claimed superior knowledge, refuse to share it, and instead share only opinions and insults. I’ve explained myself, and you’ve insulted me further. I point this out, and you insult me again, and claim I am the defensive one. Your world is backwards: You are acting like a child and yet insist that the child is me. You say I’m trying to make this about myself when I am only trying to discuss libertarian views. You are making this about me, and claiming that I am.

I’ve been patient and civil, but there is no possibility of a discussion here. We speak the same language but are apparently unable to communicate. Unable, or at least unwilling, as a discussion takes two willing participants and you have written basically nothing but accusations and insults.

I also have no idea what you mean by “If you’re so afraid to make an impression, maybe keep your backstory to yourself.” If I was afraid to make an impression, I would not be here, and I would certainly not be talking about my views. I also have not shared my “backstory” here in this thread; I have scattered bits of it in a few other rants, but as a very private person, that is an exceedingly rare thing for me to do.

But I digress. There is no possibility of a discussion here.