Log4j is just more justification to never use Java for anything

Says the JS dev 👌

That's bold of you.

You guys are using java?

There are fundamental security issues in projects everywhere - called human.

Should we remove them, too?

@theKarlisK

Kaaaaaaaarrrrllllll

Get the lawnmower.

@IntrusionCM That would solve a lot of problems, and not just security related ones.

I think it's got more to do with Apache overengineering shit than with Java. Any product built on the principle of including everything the user might need would have ended up just as unsafe.

@lbfalvy Java forces people to overengineer shit with how everything needs to have a class, interface, override, ...

Do you mean "log4shell is just another reason to procrastinate and not to learn Java properly, so I could tell everybody java doesn't make sense"? Then yes, sure ;)

@hitko Java isn't my main language but I didn't experience any of that. There are builtin types for pretty much everything I need, and the stuff I actually build is exactly as complex as it is modular. If I don't need to extend some aspect dynamically I can build it together and it becomes orders of magnitude simpler.

@lbfalvy To add a click handler to a button, you need to define a class which implements ButtonClickHandler, override the onClick method, create an instance of that class, and pass the instance to your button. And to handle a different button differently, you need to repeat the whole process. Sure, it's all logical and structured (and there are a few shorthands so you don't have to write all that explicitly), but that's how Java does it and it's overengineered as fuck.

@hitko Java Swing.

Which is a zombie since a decade plus If I remember correctly...

And JavaScript isn't much different here.

QT, too.

GTK, too.

I see a pattern here.... :) ;)

@JustThat

Say it ain't so...
I will not go...
Turn the lights off...
carry me home

;)

@IntrusionCM Yes! 100%

@C0D4 I'm not a js dev, but I'll take js over Java any day of the week

@hitko yes but actually no, I made working Java micro services with less than 5 classes and few hundreds of LOCs, the most important thing is to not shove frameworks or sophisticated patterns where they aren’t needed. If all that my MS needs to do is to read from a single DB table and send the result as a json I’m happy to ditch the ORM, avoid any inheritance and don’t use DI to deliver code which can rival in elegance and simplicity with the one written in today’s most trendy languages.

@IntrusionCM @hitko In JS if you want to add an event listener to a button click, you call addEventListener on the button with "click" and the handler function which can come from absolutely anywhere and rely on its upvalues to bind data. Or you can use instnace.method.bind(instance), if you really want to do object-oriented programming in a functional language.

@lbfalvy Javascript is multi paradigm.

Or even better: An abomination of everything and nothing perfectly.

@IntrusionCM Yeah, but in my experience functional mixed with procedural is the only variant where it's just lacking and the defaults don't work against you. The absence of TCO is a big pain point though.

@IntrusionCM oh, so you're one one of those mid to late 30s Enterprise developers that thinks the only way you can do anything is with "serious" languages like Java or C# and that one database is all you need.

Got it

@sleazyboi Cool your head, boy.

JavaScript is a broken language. There are way too many holes in it. Reason why ECMAScript was desperately needed and why languages based on JS like Typescript exist.

Don't get snotty sad rage when someone says the truth. JS has really no focus point, it's just a hot glued mess. And that shows.

I wrote C, PHP, C++, Java, Makefiles, M4 / Autohell, Bash, POSIX Shell, C#, Delphi and I guess a thousand things more, cause I got paid to do a job and did it.

Same for databases. SQLite, Oracle, Postgres, MySQL 4 - 8, MariaDB....

But all that is just bullshit. It's bullshit because it doesn't matter. And it doesn't matter because every language and every database has it's strength and weaknesses.

Except that in JS I see really no strength at all, except that thx to NodeJS and other projects one extreme weak language got so common that people really try to say that that language is "good".

Which is in my opinion delusional.

Here, have a tissue and some cookies.

@IntrusionCM A programming language from the point of view of practical usage exists in a context of tooling, platform support and implementations. Javascript's utility is defined by the performance of V8 and SpiderMonkey, by the ability to write a script and run it literally anywhere, by the versatility of Webassembly modules, the convenience of Typescript, the two million packages on NPM, the state-of-the-art sandboxing technology that our whole society depends on. The rules are set in stone, as stupid as they are, because infrastructure of this size requires extreme compatibility in the underlying contract of a language.

@arcioneo wow that's unnecessary