Tesla lost $879M in 2020. Tesla is not profitable.

In USA, gas cars automakers are legally required to give money to EV makers, like Tesla, that has 100% EV fleet. Tesla reported making $727M in 2020. But, other automakers gave it $1.6B. Tesla lost money. They lost $879M.

Tesla manages to lose money even without competition and with all that dotations. Imagine what happens when the competition in EV arises from other automakers? Then, dotations will stop. Tesla had no competition and had dotations. They're not gonna get any dotations anymore, and they will have rising competition.

They're gonna die.

In 2020, in Europe, VW sold more ELECTRIC cars than Tesla. And then you ask why I don't buy Tesla stocks. That's why.

Tesla is overvalued as fuck, and Elon knows it.

All his companies dont work out. Driven from hype only. Neuralink and Space Ex aswell though

The man itself is overhyped. The buffoon we need to pretend world is not collapsing and the buffoon a capitalist society needs to pretend growth has slowed down more than we realise and that we are facing a moment of change as some of the natural resources are depleting (well actually they are overflowing, CO2 specifically) and the sociopolitical situation (Taiwan) risks to halt economical growth further more.

I seriously wonder how any economist considers themselves rational after claiming continuous growth is possible. Or even just how they think this is good for humanity! Ffs you’d expect after you automated almost everything we’d start to work less and less and instead we resort to this hype shit cause teehee you need to work even if there is no need for it so invent another business busy boy!

*or that instead of working on scams we’d move money to research or arts

Tesla as a company is just a bubble, kinda like most things e*on does

like EVs are generally stupid imho but out of all the ones you could get right now, teslas are probably the worst option and the fact that my government, alongside the American one, shoves money down their throat really pisses me off

@LotsOfCaffeine is right about Teslas being bad EVs. This rant explains it: https://devrant.com/rants/5817435/...

Also, to everyone in this thread, I glad you already understand this. But, the majority does not. This is evident by how EVERY backer of my fund, existing or potential, asked about why we don't invest in Tesla. Well, here's why.

Not everyone investing in Tesla believes that it is profitable in the long term though. Heck, Musk might not either. From an investment view, that's not important.

The only important thing as an investor is that you believe the bubble will still grow in a meaningful way, giving you time to get your stocks out and reap the reward before it crashes. The billion dollar question is of course *when*, which no-one really knows.

@AlmondSauce ponzi scheme

They are not required to give money to tesla and others, they can simply sell more electric vehicles.

For those who don't understand: all car manufacturers are required to reduce the emissions from their sold fleet. They can reduce it by technical innovation(better motors, reducing car size, ...), producing vehicles that create less ore no local pollution(hybrids or electric vehicles) or buying certificats from other companies that produce much less cars with local pollution than required.
GM, MAN and many others produce more cars with local pollution than their fleet is official allowed to and you can't optimize gas powered cars that much anymore, so to prevent getting fined they buy the certificates of other companies. The maximum is usually defined as the average of the cars that are licensed.

I am sure op is misleading or omitting to make a case.

people act like the guy shits gold when all his products are hazards. honestly, buying a tesla might actually work in favor of natural selection, the idiots just die in the explosions 🙄

@stop @aviophile lol just google it ffs

Eleven states require automakers sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles by 2025. If they can’t, the automakers have to buy regulatory credits from another automaker that meets those requirements – such as Tesla, which exclusively sells electric cars.

It’s a lucrative business for Tesla – bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million – meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020.

“These guys are losing money selling cars. They’re making money selling credits. And the credits are going away,” said Gordon Johnson of GLJ Research and one of the biggest bears on Tesla (TSLA) shares.

@kiki net income isn’t the fullstory if they are expanding. I am not losing “money if I am investing in a house mortgage. Certainly Tesla wouldn’t open new gigafactories if they wouldn’t expect better future.

@aviophile do you own Amazon Alexa or other such home voice assistant? If the answer is yes, I'm dropping all allegations and declare you were right.

I don’t own spy-able devices

@Nanos
Infinite growth:
cause resources are finite and physical limits are a thing, added on top of that after a certain threshold there’s no more real value, just speculative value. If your goal is to print bigger numbers speculative value is ok I guess… but that is not the case. If the goal is to live better, tho…

Automation:
This is a slippery slope combined with fake data with no source: we are NOT running out of smart folks as no data proves it… on top of that, with a bit of research it’s easy to see we don’t even have a stable way to measure intelligence, therefore these are pointless claims. The whole sexual argument is also flawed as it’s your assumption that money = win the sexual race…
Adding to that: I’ve said that anyone can live working less, not that they’d starve, get poorer or less desiderable. This is a strawman you are trying to pull, as what I’ve said does not imply everyone gets poorer.

@Nanos
Infinite growth: surprise surprise, both require a physical and finite mean

Running out of smart folks: cool, you posted a link to a website with no data in which most comments debate the fact it’s bs…

We don’t have a stable way to measure intelligence: well, no, what a stupid person does is insult others without giving context cause they think they are smart. Surprise surprise I’m part of Mensa… and the moment you see a Fibonacci series in an intelligence test you should understand it’s actually highly flawed by cultural influence and the fact you can study for an intelligence test says the rest.

Sexual race: “women like to live in cities, men can’t afford to live in cities as easily” this qualifies you as a troll, but even if it was true… again, you are trying to make a strawman: the issue is the distance/communication, not the money, which is not the argument as nobody’s telling we should segregate women in the cities and men in the middle of nowhere…

This is getting extremely red-pilly on your side, frankly…

Tesla is mostly a luxury brand at the moment and is spending plenty of money in research and development.

Once they release their model 2, the size of their market will grow substantially. In addition, they won't need to aggressively develop the software forever. It will eventually get to a point where it will need minor maintenance while being fed data from drivers constantly.

They're running against the clock but the truth is they have the most advanced self driving system even though they've started working on this last. Other auto makers have no clue wtf they're doing, they've been working on self driving for two decades and are absolutely nowhere.

So no, Tesla won't die, but it will live under a perfusion of investments until it becomes profitable.

@Frankistan I cannot even tell if you're serious or just trolling.

Advanced self-driving system, so advanced that they disable it a second before the crash to claim it was turned off all along. Smart summon? Forget it. With all that cameras, it's merely a glorified cruise control.

Innovation? Yeah, right. The cutting edge in union-busting.

If you want to see a real self-driving system, google comma.ai. They don't need all that cameras, because they have an insanely detailed physical model. Their AI even raced on a racetrack. Just google it. It's commercially available.

I won't even post soy faces your way and won't being mean. I realize if I present counter-evidence while insulting people, they won't listen. So, no offence, just google it.

@Nanos so… troll I guess

@Frankistan found the shareholder

@LotsOfCaffeine having a robinhood account doesn't make you an investor, just like using kubernetes doesn't make you an architect

@kiki that's your competition? An open source self driving system that only works with a front camera? Sorry but that is silly, very very silly.

I don't doubt that open source alternatives will emerge and eventually take over, in two decades.

Also be careful what you're reading, there is plenty of lobbying by big oil to discredit Tesla.

@Frankistan comma is a superior self driving system

@kiki no need to argue, we'll see.

@kiki tested and proven irl?

@aviophile yes

@kiki i am sorry, that is simply not true after wasting my time on the internet. First, there is not even a reliable comparison between two other than skme video on youtube. There is no formal, repeated test result either.

This is your second blunder, first was about Brave. The very reddit post you linked had a comment addressing all of the points at the main comment. The consensus on that reddit post you linked was basically “brave is still the most respectful to user privacy”.

You are emotionally opinionated about many things and don’t take into account that someone will check your claims.

You are emotionally

@Frankistan indeed you are wise. Kiki being kiki has opinions based more on emotions than information.

@aviophile man, your comment is emotionally biased against me. Just set up logging on your router, and then try using brave for a week. Pihole logs are fine too (this is what I did). Verify the thing yourself, always a good strategy.

You're either not smart enough to understand that the reddit thread was just a point of reference, which is obviously false, or, biased emotionally, which is probably true.

@kiki ad hominem because of not subscribing to your biased bullshit.

@aviophile imagine asking if something was tried in first person just to reject the first person experience later, because there “there is not a reliable comparison between the two” (except some videos, so there is a comparison…) and data is needed (so… want first experience or data? Cause you got both)

Then going for an ad hominem against the person you are debating, both directly and while speaking to a third person and finally, when a tangible method to get the data you requested is submitted to you, you just call an ad hominem for the fact you are being emotive is called out.

You totally won the audience. As long as it’s reverse day, that is.

@piratefox lmao that was awesome

Objection your honor: calls for speculation.

End of story, we will see who wins so there is no need to argue.

PS: I'd like to say though, the more data, the better self-driving. The OS option won't attract nearly as many consumers as an affordable Tesla. Checkmate.

@piratefox it was one guy’s video and the guy says openpilot is not far behind tesla’s autopilot. If anything that video is a case for tesla being better. I was graceful enough not use that. A test requires different conditions and environments, not a single youtube video can be proof for comparison

@piratefox and both about Brave and autopilot, she either didn’t give proper reasoning(yes, but no link to an article or video, I found that comparison video and summary is not openpilot is superior at all)or outright mislead(brave case, then told me to look for it yourself with tools that is foreign to me. That reddit post was answered and op of that post bordered on bullshit or slander.

@aviophile router logs are foreign to you? I didn't know

@kiki no shit sherlock. Not everyone can deal with anything 0 1 related under the sun. Electronic board design foreign to you? Didn’t know….

@aviophile I make my own analogue guitar pedals

@kiki good for you. But I guess you got the point.

@aviophile look. Let's get over it. Here are facts:

Brave browser has its own ad network. It replaces others' ads with their own, and they track your engagement with them. They even have a so-called "basic attention token" network, it delivers personalized ads. This is the definition of tracking and abolishing privacy. This is their business model.

If you have ads on your website, brave will block them, replace them with their own ads, and, if you want your ad money, you have to go to brave and claim it via their own crypto network.

Imagine if you had google analytics embedded into your browser. Not into some website you visit, but rather your browser, e.g. all of them. This is basically what brave does.

https://kevinmuldoon.com/do-not-use...

I hope this is not ad-hominem.

P. S. Tesla's “autopilot” is a glorified cruise control. Nothing more.

@kiki i have never seen an ad with Brave, like ever. On mobile or PC. At worst case, Brave csn not delete the ad container so there is empty space in ad’s place.
Secondly, I remember reading whole Brave topic you linked and my conclusion was Brave is still the one respecting the most(if not fully, since there is no free lunch) and op’s points were answered 75%, even directly by a brave developer. So original post and comments told me greatly different stories.
About autopilot thing, one needs more than one,different and reliable comparisons that are well documented.

@aviophile the point is not the video, it’s the contradictions in your reasoning: if you cared about the data you would have started by saying the data is proving you wrong, opening a debate in that sense, if you cared about personal experience (a fallacy) you would have not cried about the data. It shows your are the one not being coherent in the argument.

She gave you the method, you are free to ask someone to setup router logging if, as a developer, you are not able to do so on your own… in which case I suggest to learn it as it may be a useful (no burn intended) skill in case you end up in a small company or startup.

I’m not sure which autopilot is better (even if honestly I’d believe 100% that the system just pretends it was always off, knowing Tesla and the shit they do… batteries, cough cough…) or wether brave answers to the claims.

I’m just noticing that you are blaming others of fallacies you enacted first.

@aviophile and “I’m not capable of doing it so it doesn’t count” is not a convincing counter argument…

@piratefox yeah