What is your opinion on eSIM (embedded SIM)?

Now that Apple has built the first smartphone without modular SIM, it is, as history shows, only a matter of time until the same vendors who mock Apple for doing this will hypocritically follow Apple in implementing it themselves. There will be an outrage, but it will fade and the new restriction will be tolerated.

To me, "eSIM" appears like an euphemistic / euphemSIMtic (pun intended) marketing term, like calling non-replaceable batteries "eBatteries" ("embedded batteries") would be. It is less modular and more locked-down.

I hope it will be a choice. I don't think it is a bad thing but i it isn't a good thing either.

@jonas-w I would also not mind it remaining a choice, just like I would not mind non-replaceable batteries being a choice. However, history shows that vendors will gradually descend into the more locked-down implementation, see batteries.

overrated bullshit with no benefits for the user - only for the vendors (easier lock-in).

I think ESIM is great for embedded systems but I think having still a simslot same as still having 3.5mm audio out is very good for consumer devices like smartphones

It is about time. We all know, that there is no security in the mobile networks. So stopping to pretend that a SIM card does anything to protect anything is a good thing.

Just support a hundred different sets of mobile network access credentials and none will ever have to juggle SIM cards around anymore. Also, no one will miss the nano/mini/micro/whatever size SIM conversion hassles.

esim is a standard. It's more amenable to swapping, even means you can have multiple sims more easily. Who exactly is mocking them? It's going to force more providers to support the standard, that's all.

@exerceo
Yea, as @atheist says.
Its a standard.

And by no means an apple thing??

I've got mine in a pixel 4.
Works great!

Smartwatch eSim though need a little push imo. Proprietary overlays and "implementations" are continuously being kicked out, redacted, reintroduced, kicked out again. In the name of information security, of course, but cheap smartwatch producers would do anything to get hand on their users movements, I guess.

@scor Apple built the first eSIM-only smartphone. History shows the pack of Android vendors will follow, like they followed non-replaceable batteries, the removal of the headphone plug, the camera user interface design, lack of MicroSD, screen notches, and the exclusion of the charger (power brick) from the scope of delivery.

I'm a bit sceptical about how it's going to play out, but it doesn't look all that bad. As long as it's always easy for the owner of the phone to add and remove the eSIMs, what else could go wrong?

@exerceo i don't think that esim-only will be one of those

@electrineer It moves control away from the end user.

In some countries, specific devices could be blocked from using the cellular network if used in a way their authorities don't like.

Earlier, only SIM cards could be blacklisted. No big deal, just get a new one. Now, entire devices can be blocked from the network. Does not sound like fun.

@joewilliams007 first world country and usa... good joke

@atheist how it can be easily swapped by end user without any special tools or operator support? ie the same way you can swap traditional SIM

@qwwerty it's not a hard coded sim card. It's just a downloadable bit of data...
https://www.gsma.com/esim/

@atheist i did not say it's hardcoded.

I was asking how current SIM swap workflow can be easily achiveved by end user in case of eSIM. I.e. how do I take eSIM out of my phone and place it in someone elses, without internet connectivity or telco support being part of equation. Not to mention cases when my eSIM phone is dead and won't power on. How do I, as an user, transfer it to a new device without having to rely on some telco online provisioning? Traditional SIM covers all these cases as you just simply take it out and move it to a different device.

I'm not saying it's not a great solution for M2M, etc.. But to me as an end user, It just feels like digging a deeper hole into being unable to do shit without surrounding support infrastructure.

@qwwerty "without surrounding support infrastructure"

You mean like the postal service? Coz how the fuck else do you get a new physical sim these days.

It's better for some things, worse for others, but I'm rarely 30 minutes away from a WiFi connection.

@qwwerty a secondary connection definitely should not be mandatory for activating the eSIM, otherwise it's a dead-born idea.

@atheist while the postal service can be easily replaced when it goes down (other courier service, personal pickup, etc... ) in case of telco-side provisioning you have no alternative means

@catgirldev Still, it should remain optional and not enforced.