So I had to use office and image editing tools on Linux today.
Holy mother fucking god are these things awful. Gimp, pinta, gnome paint, libre office, open office... they seem like a project some guy threw together a weekend in his bedroom. The UX is shite and makes 0 sense. They crash and lag all over the place. For fuck sake!
Also... Gimp, libre office and open office. If you want to make an alternative to a well known product (Photoshop and MS Office in this example) then just fucking copy the god damn UI as much as you can. No-one is going to go learn your fucking half ass product, people only use this shit because it's free and available on Linux.
I swear, I seriously considered sending the images to my phone and just fucking edit them there because it would have been so much easier than using this pile of shit.
Fuck!!!

Try Krita next time. It's closest to photoshop

A lot worse if you export these files of OpenOffice or LibreOffice to .docx files and have to show it somewhere on MS word... :/

This isnt really an issue for me, but most ui's on linux look like they were made ten years ago in the holo age. I wont even start about themes.

It's a big problem if you need it for school (normal, nothing techy) where everyone uses MS office which is the point where I am at.

I've use gimp a lot, works fine for me! Maybe take a look at photogimp? (or gimphoto, keep forgetting the words order 😆)

I use gimp frequently, you get used to it.

But the office replacements I tried so far are real shit. I tried to use them for some time, but I don't get my head around the UI, so I uninstalled them and use the evil but sufficient google tools

You can use photopea.com online, it's same as photoshop 😃

@Architekton64 Yes, ofcourse you can't, but we can do simple editing perfectly.

WPS Office for Linux

This is what puts me off Linux every time I consider using it. Free OS? Great. Free quality software? No thanks.

Eh, LibreOffice is fine for me. I agree that some functions are slightly more hidden than in MS Office, but it's all in about the same place. That said, the MS Office UI in 2016 and later turned completely autistic: I much prefer 2010 or before, which is what LibreOffice/Open Office is recreating.

Also, GIMP has always been stable for me. The tools aren't on par with Photoshop, but for what I use it for, it's fine. If I need to do anything super crazy, I'll use Krita.

But really, look at how much is going to Photoshop vs GIMP or MS Office vs LibreOffice/OpenOffice. Imagine what would happen if everyone who downloaded those open source programs gave even 1/4 the cost of the proprietary programs! That would be a hell of a lot of money.

So maybe next time you have a problem, shoot the devs an email of problems you had and $5. I do know for a fact that GIMP is looking for general feedback of the system. I'd be happy to get you an email for them!

@RiderExMachina Firstly, I love the new MS Office UI. Things are so much easier to find when they are categorised into tabs like that. Libre office's soup of icons is inferior in every way.
Second, I need to get my job done now. I don't care that they will improve it somewhere down the line. I dont care that they don't have the money. This isn't day care, it's capitalism. If your product sucks I'm not going to help you make it better, I'm going to choose a better product. I got better things to do with my time than to help build every half arsed product.

So anyway, I read you can run MS Office on Wine. I'll probably try that and actually get something done

Also on the UI. Who the fuck in their right mind is going to go learn a product that's only reason for existing is that it's free and available on Linux? Gimp skills have 0 value on the job market. I'm not going to waste my time learning this shit. Best thing they could do is clone well known products

@Froot
"Firstly, I love the new MS Office UI." You're one of the few then. I'll agree that it is easier to find stuff, but in that same token it also takes up a lot of screen real estate. My coworker and boss absolutely hate the new UI and I'm not keen on it myself.

The thing is, it's based off of the legacy MS Office, so if you're used to that older look and feel, you're going to be right at home. Obviously that's not you.

Open Source projects aren't exactly Capitalism though. They're literally community products, and for projects that are 20 years old at most, that's pretty amazing. Yes, you could pull an Apple and make a business over those open source projects, making it slightly Capitalistic, but for the most part, it's not actually Capitalism. For the record, I do my job just fine with the OpenSource tools here and now.

MS Office runs OK in WINE. The later ones like '13 and '16 don't work, AFAIK, but I would check winedb.org just in case they've updated that. (Cont'd)

"Also on the UI. Who the fuck in their right mind is going to go learn a product that's only reason for existing is that it's free and available on Linux?"
Well, me, for one. I'm kind of broke at the moment and don't like pirating software; thus I have to learn how to use these OpenSource programs.

Also, GIMP cannot legally clone Photoshop, or else Adobe will sue and make GIMP no longer exist. Same for LibreOffice or any other of the OpenSource alternatives to popular programs.

"GIMP skills have 0 value..."
If you know how to write with a pen, do you need to also learn how to write with a pencil? If you know how to type on a typewriter, do you need to learn how to type on a keyboard? If you can work well in PS you can work well in GIMP. You can change the shortcuts in GIMP, which is more than I can say for PS.

There was a study a few years back and it basically said the PS vs GIMP debate is all in which you started with. It's literally a useless bias based on which you use first.

@Froot
Would you be willing to write a small piece of constructive criticism of both GIMP and LibreOffice? Maybe try to find one thing you like, and four things you dislike? I'd be willing to send the list to the developers for you.

@RiderExMachina
First you have to realise that the "new" office layout has been out for over 7 years by now. It's not new in anyway and I can't see people not being used to it by now unless they use really outdated stuff. Also, I disagree with your claim that most hate the layout. I think you forget the hordes of business people out there. I highly doubt they hate it and prefer the old layout.

You don't like pirating: That's your problem.

Cloning Photoshop or MS Office: Of course they can't clone it. But they can at least make as similar as they can and not go inventing the "new better way" that no-one gives a fuck about because no-one uses their product out of preference. People choose this shit because they can't use Photoshop or MS Office, not because they like or prefer the open source alternative.

Gimp skills: How many job ads ask for gimp skills? How many companies use gimp over PS professionally? How many offices use Libre/Open office over MS? I don't think very many

@RiderExMachina

Feedback: I can't be arsed to go analyse their product and write up a constructive piece of feedback that would actually help. This shit takes time and effort and I have better thing to do. Also, to be honest, I don't give a fuck about their product. I don't care if it improves or goes away, it's shit, moving on. There are already vastly superior alternatives available like Google Docs so I'll just use them or MS Office when I can.

There are some products I deeply care about and I will help them and put effort into it. Open source office tools is not one of them

And I'm not saying open source is shit. It's not. Open source produces some awesome things. But occasionally it also produces utter crap

"[The layout is] not new in anyway and I can't see people not being used to it by now unless they use really outdated stuff."

While MS Office comes out every three years, very few people purchase the new version. I know many people who still use 2007, which just had its support drop, and 2010, both of which had older layouts. Many people don't want to shell out $200 for an update to a product that they already have, but with a few minor tweaks. Obviously everyone is different, but 9/10 people that I deal with on a daily basis are these exact kind of people.

I was reading the GIMP FAQ while waiting for your response and I came across something interesting: "Q: 'Are you trying to develop a Photoshop killer app?'

A: No. Most generic image editors look like Photoshop simply because Adobe’s application was among the first image editors as we know them now, so developers tend to stick to what people know . . ."

(Cont'd)

@Froot
This is interesting because they also then say: "We do, however, acknowledge the fact that people will treat GIMP as Photoshop replacement no matter what we tell them, and that’s all right with us. You own this software, it’s up to you to decide how you make use of it."

So, not a PS clone, so they're doing things their own way. I will agree that GIMP is useless outside of Single-Window Mode, and I wish that was on by default....

I'll disagree that people use GIMP or LO/OO because they can't afford the proprietary stuff. I use it because that's who I am; and by all means, I'm going to make sure I do my part to make sure these programs thrive.

So because a job app says it needs PS skills or MS Office skills, I can't apply although I can remake the Mona Lisa in GIMP or write a spreadsheet budget in LibreOffice? They're similar skills. I can use a flathead screwdriver to unscrew a Philips head. Sure, slightly different, but close enough for most hiring managers...

"How many offices use Libre/Open office over MS?"
A lot, actually. Many governments are using LibreOffice because of no license fees. France's MIMO and Italy's Department of Defense are two big examples.

As far as OSS and these two programs in particular being shit, I would wager that these two programs are the two most popular and arguably best OSS programs out there.

@RiderExMachina

Office new layout: Didn't 2010 already have the new layout? I think it did. Anyway, I don't know where you work but most offices I've worked in use MS Office with the new layout and I haven't heard many complaints

Gimp Faq: So they don't aim to clone PS. Cool, their choice, but I think it's a bad one.

Gimp, OO or LO skill: Sure, you can do great things with any tool. But why would you? Why not invest in knowing the best tools for the job not fiddling with the subpar ones?

Supporting and using Gimp, LO and OO: Cool, you do what you want, I don't care. I want to use and be good at the best tool available and I'll do that when possible.

Governments use Gimp, LO and OO: AS If anyone wanted to work in the government? I said offices, I should have said successfully companies. I couldn't give 2 fucks what goverments or second class companies use as that's not the jobs I aspire for. I'm interested in the leading successful companies so I learn what they use

@RiderExMachina As for OSS being shit, I never said that. OOS produces awesome things like Node.js, Linux and so on. And Im happy that these great products are open source. But not everything OOS produces is great. Some stuff is just utter shit and there's no point defending it just because it's OOS. You'd throw it under the buss in a heartbeat if it was a corporate product so why defend it just for being OOS?

@Froot
Office layout: 2007 and 2010 had a new layout, and then 2013 and 2016 had a new layout. I prefer 2007/2010's look myself.

GIMP FAQ: Fair

Tools: Mostly because Linux. David Revoy is a comic book artist who uses Linux and therefore can't use PS. So he uses Krita and Inkscape. If Adobe would make PS for Linux, I'm sure he'd use it too. Also, MS Office for Mac doesn't always work well with MS Office for Windows, when I've had no issues with LibreOffice compatibility.

Supporting OSS: so basically a "you do you" situation. That's fair. I do use the best tool for whatever job. Most of the time, LO is fine for me. Sometimes I do have to use MS Office, but those times are getting fewer and far between; mostly for slideshow presentations. And PS looks damn pretty compared to GIMP.

Gub'ment: That's fair.

OSS: Sorry, bad choice of words on my part. For clarification: "On the topic of OSS and GIMP/LO/OO being shit . . ."

@RiderExMachina
(cont'd)

I do throw many Open Source programs under the bus, just not on devRant. I hate KMyMoney and GnuCash when compared to Quicken or even Mint.com. I think that all three programs we've talked about here at length need a lot of help.

I bash Linux because the Linux adoption rate needs to go up so that programs like MS Office and PS come to Linux so that normal people who are only familiar with those programs are willing to jump ship from the Windows.

But what's cool, and why I don't throw these programs under the bus like I do the proprietary stuff, is that I can change the programs if I'd like. Or, if I don't have the skills, I can tell my buddy who's looking for a job to contribute to a program to make it better. You can't do that with Photoshop or MS Office.

But again, I guess a big "you do you."

I sound like an apologist because I like these two programs. They aren't perfect, but I like them for what they are. Just like you with your programs.

@Froot
Alright man, it's 0100 where I am, so I need to sleep. You sound like a pretty cool guy when you're not raging at "subpar open source programs" ;)

I'll see you around on here. If you do reply, I'll read it in the morning. Thanks for the civil discussion!

@RiderExMachina Sorry some stuff came up and now I've completely lost my trail of thought.

Anyway, thx for keeping this civil. I might have overreacted a bit tho, sorry 😋

@Froot
It's all good, man. I think I overreacted a couple of times myself. I'm just glad we were able to rein it in, and I actually had a lot of fun!

For anybody who's interested: LO is adding the office 07/10/13/16 look in some upcoming version, until then you can try it out in the beta version.