I had a discussion with a coworker earlier.

I owed him for lunch the other day, and he suggested I pay him back either with cash (which I didn't have), Venmo, or just by him lunch the next time (which I ended up doing).

I asked about Venmo, and he said it was like paypal, but always free. that sounded a bit off -- because how are they in business if it's always free? -- so I looked it up, and paid special attention to their privacy policy.

The short of it: they make money by selling your information. That's worth far more than charging users a small fee when sending $5 every few weeks. Sort of what I expected when I heard "always free," but what surprised me is just how much they collect. (In retrospect, I really shouldn't have been surprised at all...)

Here's an incomplete list:
* full name, physical address, email, DoB, SSN (or other government IDs, depending on country)
* Complete contact list (phone numbers, names, photos)
* Browser/device fingerprint
* (optional) Your entire Facebook feed and history
* (optional) all of your Facebook friends' contact info
* Your Twitter feed
* Your FourSquare activity
(The above four ostensibly for "fraud prevention")
* GPS data
* Usage info about the actual service
* Other users' usage info (e.g. mentioning you)
* Financial info (the only thing not shared with third parties)

Like, scary?

And, of course, they share all of this with their parent company, PayPal. (The privacy policy does not specify what PayPal does with it, nor does it provide any links that might describe it, e.g. PayPal's "info-shared-by-third-parties" privacy policy)

So I won't be using Venmo. ever.

I mentioned all of this to my coworker, and he just doesn't understand. at all. He even asks "So what are they going do with that, send me ads? like they already do?"

I told him why I think it's scary. Everything from them freely selling all of your info, to someone being able to look through your entire online life's history, to being able to masquerade around as you, to even reproducing your voice (e.g. voice clips collected by google assistant), to grouping people by political affiliations.

He didn't have much to say about any of them, and actually thought the voice thing was really cool. (All I could think of was would happen if the "news" had that ability....) All of his other responses were "that doesn't bother me at all" and/or "using all of these services is so convenient."

but what really got me was his reaction to the last one.

I said, "If you're part of the NRA, for example, you'd be grouped with Republicans. If they sell all of this information, which they do, and they don't really care who buys it or what they do with it... someone could look through the data and very very easily target those political groups."

His response? "I don't have to worry about that. I'm a Democrat, and have always voted Democrat. I'll tell anyone that."

That's basically saying every non-democrat is someone you should be wary of and keep an eye on. That's saying Democrats are the norm and everyone else is deviant and/or wrong.

and I couldn't say anything after this because... no matter what I said, it would start a political conflict, and would likely end with me being fired (since the owner is also a democrat, and they're very buddy-buddy). "What if they target democrats?" -> "They already do!" or "What if democrats use it against others?" -> "They deserve it for being violent and racist, but we never would" (except, you know, that IRS/tea-party incident for example...)

But like, this is coming from someone who firmly believes conservatives are responsible for all of the violence and looting and rioting and mass shootings in the country. ... even when every single instance has been by committed by democrats. every. single. one.


He doesn't understand the need for privacy, and his world view is just... he actually thinks everyone with different beliefs is wrong and dangerous.

I don't even know how to deal with people like this. and with how prevalent this mindset is... coupled with the aforementioned privacy concerns... it's honestly *terrifying.*

  • 5
    what the fuck...
  • 2
  • 12
    People like him are the reason online security is so shit.
    Everyone I know who doesn't care about security always have the same augment: "I have nothing to hide, so I don't care". They always think I'm paranoid when I tell them the implications of this sort of blatant lack of security...
    This world, man
  • 6
    When dealing with normies, tell them to try ingest this 2 videos:


    If the still dont feel any bother by it, give up any hope of they ever doing so
  • 10
    @ThatDude Thanks for the mention!

    Is there a way to favourite a rant multiple times?

    And @Ashkin I'm not flirting or anything but damn i wish I could find a girl like you over here 😞
  • 13
    Trump actually seems to care about America. Can't fault him for that. The "news" also goes out of its way to ignore anything positive he does, and twists anything and everything it can to make him look like a horrible person. So unless you're keeping a close eye on what is actually going on in the US, I can see how you'd have that opinion.

    I mean, he's certainly not perfect, but he's tens of thousands of times better than how he's portrayed.

    Also, the only alternative was Hillary, the mega-corrupt flipflopper who probably hasn't told the truth in sixty years. The entire media supported her, and they're the ones pushing civil unrest, so. Anyone they hate probably isn't so bad, yeah?
  • 5
    @linuxxx well, you could come over here so I wouldn't have to go over there 😊😉☺
  • 7
    @Ashkin Presuming you live in the US, I wouldn't even get in!
  • 2
    @linuxxx I'm not surprised you wrote that :')
  • 3
    @lo98be Well it's like, the second you mention (mostly when someone asks for your number to stay in touch) you don't have WhatsApp, you're about dead to them. (over here)

    That annoys the living hell out of me!
  • 1
    @linuxxx yeah, it could be better than SMS but... not much better
  • 4
    @lo98be Oh I don't text much either. Hate that as well!
  • 1
    @linuxxx me too, I prefer talking to a person rather than writing on a device
  • 4
    @AlexDeLarge "then what do you use?"
    "but why?"
    "for privacy reasons :)"
    "oh but i just really don't want to use anything other than WhatsApp, sorry."

    Usually we either quit the conversation or jump to texting :/
  • 3
    @AlexDeLarge Just re-read your comment, partly ignore my last comment, good one!
  • 5
    @lo98be Oh no I meant as like I love messaging but i refuse to use proprietary stuff connected to fb and such!
  • 5
    @AlexDeLarge seriously?
    Pay attention to what happens, and then what the news says. They don't match.

    It takes a lot of reading and watching and correlating to get to the truth. And if you can't trust the news with events, how could you ever trust its opinions?
  • 3
    @AlexDeLarge A fellow signaller, did not know that :)
  • 2
    Ha! nice thing the few friend I ever had no longer even have time to do anything because of their jobs or even have """friends""" at all to bother me to messaging them!
  • 3
    @AlexDeLarge They use WhatsApp at work as well and I simply said 'either you're gonna give me a phone for that or I'm just not going to participate there'
  • 3
    Back in my old job I had to use alot skype and still have to do when dealing with some providers/clients
  • 2
    Holy shit do I hate the political climate over here. Most of the time if you disagree with someone politically they automatically through a logical fallacy about your belief (you wanted PBS cut? You must hate children!). This happens on both sides.

    And everything happens just as Ashkin described: you can't say anything, you just have to nod and think less of the person without letting them know.

    And yes, while I don't like a lot of what Trump has said or been doing, I do think he was a better choice than Hillary and he has been doing a better job than the media portrays. Even the biggest Dem in Congress said he shouldn't be impeached yet (as of 3 months ago anyway).

    I just wish people would listen to the other side and not take what the "news" says for granted. People have reasons for their beliefs, even though sadly nowadays it's "because <media group> said I should!"
  • 2
    Reading enough dissenting opinions on events, correlating the overlap, and searching for video and photos. I do the best I can.

    As for North Korea... I don't know what the fuck is going on. Kim Jong Un might attack anyway. The whole thing is scary.
  • 3
    I'm too tired to continue tonight. (It's 0045 here)
  • 1
    When did I ever say "good job?" I think he's doing better than what the media credits him for, which is "an abysmal failure," but he's not really doing "a good job."

    Your comments about Puerto Rico and Kim Jong In are spot on, as well as his reportedly calling the White House experience similar to a Venezuelan Prison is completely out of touch with reality.

    But as a fiscally conservative type of person, the fact that he's cutting the US budget is good, as are the cuts on taxes. The shame is that he's funding the military, which we already have the most well-funded military in existence...
  • 4
    @AlexDeLarge Are you putting words in my mouth?
    I just said I don't know what's going on there, nor did I state an opinion or side 😡

    The entire thing is crazy scary and I don't have any reliable information.
  • 3
    You're implying that we had another option of either letting another "prisoner" go free or none at all. We didn't. The DMC primary of Sanders v. Clinton was rigged so Clinton won and the only other choice across all 50 states was Gary Johnson, who was high for most of the campaign end and the entire election period. Johnson got 3% of the vote, iirc, which is higher than the entire "other" category of years prior (2012, for example).

    Let me rephrase: WE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. With how American politics work, it was either Trump or Clinton, and Trump was the better of the two. End of story.

    I do agree with most of your second paragraph, but I personally believe the government should not be involved with health care, and therefore should not be an issue of this caliber to begin with. I also believe that cutting taxes for everyone is better because the more money in my pockets, the more I get to spend it where I want to spend it (charity, health care, whatever).
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    Would have been great just to have better candidates all around. I just don't know why, but having a political entity attempt to not only dismiss scientific theories but erase the measurements relating to them is... Disturbing.

    But hey, I don't have to wear a yellow star around in my country yet so it can't be that bad.
  • 4
    Did you not read my comment? I mentioned Sanders. I also mentioned that the DMC "elected" Clinton (in a rigged election). So... Sanders was out for the count.

    We also had Gary Johnson, who I also mentioned, but he had 3% of the vote. So people voted for him (myself included), but not enough to matter.

    The thing you don't understand as a non-US citizen is that the American public is not smart enough to realize that there are more than just Democrats and Republicans. In every single election within our three centuries there have been no more than 3 non-traditional party candidates elected, and none of them have been within the last century.

    So yes, there are more than two parties on paper, but, in coding terms, there are more languages than Java and Python. The thing is, every company wants a Java or Python developer. Who cares if you know C or Go or Rust. You don't know Java or Python, so you're not hired.
  • 3
    Trump is President by accident he just wanted to promote some shit. He wanted to stand on stage with the candidates, to have all eyeballs on him. Look at his career he doesn't care about politics.

    Not is Trump a person who can setup a oligarchie ala Putin.

    Not to say the Republicans citizens are bad. In fact aside of the shit show of trump the conservative thinkers (Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson) are very same imho

    The issue the us you all live in a fucking bubble. You're either team blue or red it's insane! You can get fired because you THINK different WHAT THE FUCK is wrong with you people. "We are the greatest country" we where is a better fit.

    The same thing happens with the rome empire:

    1. Overextended military 
    2. Corrupt government
    3. illegal immigration for grunt work
    4. redistribution of wealth
    5. degrading morality
    6. inflation
    7. exile of Christians and any influence.
    8. Obsession with sports and entertainment.
    See any parallels? 
  • 3
    Let me get this out of the way though: I DO agree with you. The real issue is that too many people are misinformed into thinking that there are only the two parties.

    We're slowly working towards three, but too little, too late in my own opinion, though I am a pessimistic-realist.

    I've resigned myself to my belief that we won't exist by the time 2050 rolls around. I'll be happily surprised to be wrong, but there is too much dick waggling insofar as the world's military powers are concerned.
  • 1
    >"We are the greatest country!" We were is a better fit.

    I absolutely love the quote from The Newsroom. It hits me so hard every time and I love it to death.

    Link for the uninitiated: https://youtube.com/watch/...

    I recommend all three seasons of the show because it's just so good!
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    On the North Korea issue I doubt anything will happen. North Korea is heavily backed by China and Russia(yes Russia is the have a giant work force of North Korea working in soberia)

    Kim Jung Un has 0 motivation to attack. The only act irratic to be left alone. He can only lose power by starting a war. China is already touchy about the us trying to increase their presence in the China Sea. Is the would attack North Korea I think they will bite more then they can chew. North Korea will never attack first only threat's.
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    Yeah the newsroom was a great serie. I liked it alot. I might unconscious quoted the newsroom xD that bit is spot on though
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    I mean, yes, in the most literal sense we did have choices besides Trump and Clinton. But with how people think, we effectively had no other choice. Everyone knew as soon as the choice was between Trump, Clinton, and a couple of third party people, we were going to either get Trump or Clinton as president.

    There was a surge for third party, which I'm glad about. In the past 4 elections, the entire third party vote (so Green party, Libertarian party, various others) totaled around 1%. In 2016, the combined total was 5%.

    But that 5% won't cut it against the 47% (popular vote) for Trump and 48% for Clinton. Johnson didn't even get a single Electoral Vote, they were all Red or Blue.

    So, I guess we wait until the 2020 election and see what candidates we have...
  • 1
    The only real democracy that works is in Switzerland. The have it's as right as can be. Every decision can be undone by starting a referendum. The people can initiate a new law. The people govern the government. Every law can be overturned. When they for instance vote for Medicare and it doesn't work start referendum and revert. I want I for my country we have multiple party system. But when the sit to long together eventually you get a one party. With smoke differences.
  • 0
    In the US we can have a Constitutional Convention, which means we can rewrite our constitution and its amendments.

    Neither of the major parties would agree on anything though, so we'd end up using the same documents as before.

    I'd love to add in congressional term limits, but doing so in a Constitutional Convention may give up one of the rights I hold dear, like the right to bear arms or even the rights of free speech or to not self-incriminate.

    With privacy becoming a commodity and "snowflakes", 3rd wave Feminists, and other cancers of the sort wanting to hinder speech, not having the freedom of speech could become a reality if we were to attempt to rewrite the constitution, and that is more scary to me than losing my right to bear arms.
  • 3
    There there... when it comes to politic and religion, everyone become badly opinionated and easily triggered.

    Do you forgot, we still has this arguments about "2 spaces vs 4 spaces vs 8 spaces vs 3 spaces vs tabs"? Let's make religion out of this.

    Also, let's bring emacs and vim into politics, because we need something to fight for...

    And how about "DC vs Marvel"? We haven't come to conclusion yet, which one is better, batman or ironman...

    So, I guess it's okay to have opinion. But it's not okay to attack someone personally just because she/he has different opinion to yours.

    Something like "I can't believe intelligent person like you doing this...". It is insulting, and no one like being insulted.
  • 8
    Seeing @AlexDeLarge and @Ashkin, two ranters I hold in high regard, debating on opposite sides is really weird for me to witness. That said...

    The political environment in this country has become a joke. Everyone embraced Obama as this incredible president. Eh, he did ok. Then, we are offered up Trump, Clinton, Johnson, and random other fringe candidates no one remembered the day after the election. That's it.

    Yes, the two party system is broken. Yes there ARE other parties, and they are mostly so ludicrous that they will never gain any traction. We did it to ourselves.

    The conservatives allowed themselves to be represented in the media by the far right, bible toting, gun shooting, cousin fucking alt right.
  • 9
    (continued from above...)

    The liberals.... What a cluster fuck. They went from idealists to the constantly triggers, whiney, paternalistic, overly self involved Bill Maher wannabes that either cry wolf so much that they are not taken seriously, or get as narrow minded and violent as the alt right that they become enemies of logic as well.

    And we did this. And we propped these shitty candidates up. And between the unknown, the blatant crook, and the babbling wannabe.... We chose the babbling wannabe. We, as a nation, spent over 240 years to get ourselves to this point, and we are just decaying internally. It's Rome all over again.

    As for the OP, that venmo app is terrifying.
  • 2
    @MissDirection So this is happening everywhere. In my country (I'm living in Indonesia), a good governor was put in the jail because of "quran blasphemy".

    IMO it wasn't really his fault. Yes he should really be careful using his mouth since there are some muslim conservatives that are easily triggered by virtually everything....

    So, in several months it was like civil war in faceboook and twitter. And yes, if I've to choose, I'll be in that governor's side.

    But the problem is, I see both side play dirty. Spreading hoaxes in order to trigger the others. This was the most stupid thing I ever see.

    In short time, this turned into war between minority and majority. Between muslim and non muslim.

    Even some of my friends involved in this stupid war. Even they start to attack me personally because of my agnosticism.

    Really, I want to pull this thing out of my bag and yelling, "bring it on... mother fucker... see if your god and his beloved prophet will save you from my wrath..."
  • 8
    @gofrendi don't think that way. Be strong in you conviction but open to discussion. In this world, too many people are quick to act in extreme measures. That's why the world is the cesspool that it is.
  • 1
    @MissDirection Yes, you have a valid point.

    But when someone attack me personally (not my idea), It really hit my nerves.

    So if they have contra argument to agnoticism, spaces, tabs, vim, ironman or anything, please bring it on... Don't attack my personal ego just because you don't have any valid arguments against mine.

    This internet thing really help me a lot to not being engaged in any unnecessary fight.

    Gonna need to fix my temper in real world too. I heard meditation have a possitive effect, while coding in javascript has negative effect... :D :D
  • 0
    @AlexDeLarge I wish people here were open to that, but logical thinkers don't have control of the educational system anymore
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    I love seeing it when people actually reason and don't just jump the "Trump is satan" bandwagon. Makes my day

  • 0
    @linuxxx 😂 ever think about mail via homing pigeons?
  • 2
    @ParkCity Nah Signal/Tox/Riot work perfectly fine!
  • 0
    @linuxxx does signal have a desktop client (for arch too?)
  • 1
    @ParkCity Chromium/chrome addon. doesn't work that great but does its job for me!
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    @MissDirection it kind of makes sense.
    I've been following events very closely as an American and mostly ignoring the "news," whereas he only sees what's going on through international media -- a subset of our very corrupt and untrustworthy mainstream news.

    It's difficult to figure out what's happening anyway, and basically impossible if you rely exclusively upon them. 🙁😧

    Also: I'm a libertarian.
    I think both parties are nuts.
  • 4
    @AlexDeLarge Speaking as an American, I agree with you on this. We need to get our shit together.
  • 1
    @legionfrontier "search engines know more about you than your family's know about you..."
    Awesome video, hate that software systems security features are being intentionally diluted.... blanket surveillance is definitely an extreme in any case. Especially storing this information for X amount of time. i honestly need to refine how I use the web, but how deep does the rabbit hole go? How many systems are communicating with each other. How long before this app itself is breached in some way... it's just frustrating to know there's so much going on behind the scenes and perusing every user agreement is definitely not a solution. Big bother is a jealous brother and can't stand if anyone is getting any info it's not.
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    @AlexDeLarge I found that downvote not justifiable. Have an upvote !
  • 1
    Holy shit it got political in this bitch. Love all of you guys... Just want to put 2 cents in. It becomes extremely tedious (it shouldn't be) when the media splits and spreads false information like telling one side of the story or highlight the facts that show the values of their "party". An honesty American would have to go through loops to get a piece of truth... it has to be engineered this way by corporations. Has to. Because it too easy to setup a source and spread lies because of the webs design. And that lie that's created can easily be read and copied and spread.... so it as easy as throwing more and more information in the pot to confuse the masses. It should stop. What if we had a system that could aggregate all of the big sources of information and implement some kind of comparison algorithm that shows the discrepancies (like between two articles) and would greatly mediate the process of research... Idk, I honestly wish it was easier.
  • 1
    @dalastTomCruise This would take a lot of language processing. But it's a damned good idea!

    Would certainly save me a lot of work digging through everything.
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    @datawraith Agreed. This country is a bloody huge mess 😖
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    Well...it was only a matter of time before a post of this nature came into play.

    “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.”

    That’s all I’m saying, my two cents. Politics are where I drawl the line. I don’t feel like being enraged today. Happy ranting, everyone!
  • 1
    @Ashkin i'd considermyself a more right-leaning liberetarian
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    @ParkCity I don't know what my leanings are. Its so hard to tell because the two sides are so far from center...
  • 0
    The easiest way to tell is what your opinion is on government programs. Do you think that government should be in charge of things like education and healthcare? If "yes", you're left-leaning. If "no", you're right-leaning.

    Obviously there are other factors, but that is the quick and dirty way to tell which leanings you have.
  • 0
    @RiderExMachina As far as I know, the original meaning of left and right was:

    Left = less laws and less control over citizens and stuff

    Right = more control and laws
  • 1
    You're absolutely correct, but my explanation is too long for devRant and rambly cause it's 0125 here.

    Biggest difference is that people on the right want less government spending and people on the left want more help from the government.

    Basically @PonySlaystation flipped them--at least for the US. I hear in other countries it's exactly as he describes.
  • 1
    @RiderExMachina oooor the US flipped it 😉
  • 1
    Sounds reasonable. Probably because 'MURIKA
  • 1
    I do want to thank you for trying to be open minded. I know you rage-quit the thread a couple of times, but you still came back and we've had some good discussion.

    I wish things were as black and white as they look, but politics have at least 50 shades of grey around them. (Can I be sued over that? Asking for a friend...)
  • 1
    @RiderExMachina I don't want the State to meddle about in anything (except where it's absolutely necessary). No religion in politics. I'm also for helping others, but that should be done through charity, not government assistance. I'm for individual rights before anything else. I honestly don't think I have leanings.

    Your first definition is centrist (libertarian). Both the left and the right want more control and more laws, just governing different things.

    @runfrodorun ❤💜💙
  • 0

    Batch decrementing is for scrubs and losers!
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