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sounds like you had a good superior. alot of devs now days either ignore ie or make a page just for ie telling them to update. I don't like ie either neither do I usually work for fuckers that want ie to look perfect but I atleast make my sites work in ie which really as long as you don't fuck up and enable quirks mode and have a reasonable fallback for css effects it's usually fine
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If you want me to support Internet Explorer, you better make it worth my time I waste on that thing.
I used to work for a web agency. Current browser support? Included. Yet we charged a ridiculous premium for Internet Explorer older and ancient version support. And that's how we got our customers to move forward.
That browser madness is also a reason I went from fullstack to backend. -
I think you missed the point of that rant.
Given the magnitude of browsers out there it’s quite a skill i n it’s own to be completely cross browser / platform compatible.
I doubt anyone does the cross everything compatible perfectly. When was the last time you made a site screen reader friendly for example?
I’ve been building websites since Netscape was around so I can honestly tell you IE has always been the little bitch to get right , at least 11 and Edge seem to come close to standard compliance these days so it’s not a great difficulty to do these at least.
If a developer doesn’t want to go the extra 5 miles and make something work for everything, that’s not a bad thing, just shows there is more room to learn in that area before it’s a venture worth committing too which I hope they do.
I personally wouldn’t support IE 10 and lower if it wasn’t for work requirements, but that’s due to a very specific use case that forces that. -
We knew the web would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the document, customer specification. Customer is trying to persuade the dev that he should do his duty and to impress him, takes out his moneyfilled wallet and says "Now, i become death, the destroyer of standards."
I suppose we all thought that in one way or another. -
@k0pernikus yes, charging a premium for legacy support is a good idea as well. Completely ignoring legacy support, when it is implied or explicitly specified in the contract, is kind of a dick move, or outright breach of contract.
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@theuser true, but if one agreed to take on a project, one has committed to finish it. The only freedom comes when it's time to decide whether to commit or not.
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@Michelle I'm sorry, it kinda came out as I was attacking you in person. Allow me to explain myself. I don't know you or the background of it, but from the rant, the only conclusion one could reach is that it's fine and acceptable to do the minimum as long as it works in your conditions. And that is completely, 100% wrong, and for that I wrote this rant.
Cheers! -
@C0D4 the problem is that lots of users use IE. And if it's used by a lot of users, and you ignore it, then you're not delivering for said users.
Also, last time I did frontend development, Chrome was the little bitch that behaved really weird in some edge cases (didn't change the BG color when I changed it with JS, when it worked perfectly fine on all other browsers, and even in Chrome when done on another element, or manually with developer tools). Now try overriding the scrollbar visibility once they were hidden with that pseudo-class selector. It's all flimsy shit.
All browsers have their shitty parts. That's why I don't do frontend any more. -
@AndSoWeCode I solemnly swear I never have added scripts whose entire purpose was crippling the performance on certain Internet Explorer versions in order to point the customer to the blazingly fast performance of current browser versions!
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@ThatDude There will always be crazies out there 😕
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@AndSoWeCode I am one of those bad devs who thinks people should quit IE. Thanks for reminding the true purpose of dev.
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@AndSoWeCode
I never complete just the minimum. I always go above for my clients. That guy had no respect, so he's the only one who I didn't go above for. But normally, I complete more than expected.
I forgive you. My apologies for practically freaking out. It was 4 am and I was too tired to think about what I was saying. -
@Michelle @AndSoWeCode I disagree on the basis that you shouldn't force yourself to do more than you're getting paid. If you want to be generous, sure, but I highly advise you do not take excurbant amount of tedious workload for the sake of it or you will burn it, at least do it with purpose and foresight that it will be beneficial in the long run or it was taken into consideration during the agreement.
An added bonus is that it acts like a silent protest.
Source: working for a company where some employees are expected to work well over 50% of their contracted hours and are driving themselves insane for the promise of better tomorrow. I listen to them vent far too often. -
@Atlas117
I simply want them to continue choosing me for their projects. But, I suppose you are right. -
@Michelle and that's purpose and long term benefit. If you really feel the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, all the power to you. In the end I am in similar position where I had several mental break downs because of how difficult it is for me to cope with that company, yet I return simply because I get the chance to get involved in their projects.
I'll admit it's nowhere near as bad as your situation, but in the end you're your own queen. Your decision on what's best for you is what matters. -
@Atlas117
Ah, I understand. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you! :) -
@Atlas117 I think that goes without saying. Unless you're getting paid REALLY well PER HOUR, never do anything outside of your working hours. And surely never for free.
When I started freelancing, that was my first mistake - I agreed on a project, did not get paid on time (was running out of money), because of some stupid excuses like their accountant is on vacation, and faced a dilemma - continue working "for free" until I finish the project and collect the entire sum (which was harder since changes started appearing out of the blue), or stop, ditch the client, and never get paid for 1 week of work.
Avoid getting in such situations AT ALL COSTS! Charge PER HOUR, not PER PROJECT, unless it's really good money. And if they don't follow up with their part - just stop, don't waste any more time on them, and inform them what they should do to un-fuck-up this situation.
But that's beside the point. The point is that legacy or not, IE or not, if it's part of the job, you gotta do it. -
What I don't understand is where people see the stats that IE is still in heavy use, especially after the forced w10 upgrades 2 years ago. Market size isn't worth the effort unless your market is specifically users who don't upgrade anything (which is hard these days with most vendors making it difficult to not automatically update).
People can moan about MS and crappy forced updates all day, but the reason for that situation is because of legacy software and nobody upgrading. The updates might be a burden to the developers but it keeps software support more sane.
Every software should have this
I have been getting a lot of angry glances in meetings since my latest laptop sticker :D
So there's a recent rant, about making a website work for IE.
I get it, you don't want to make it work for IE because you don't use IE.
But get this: you're not doing the site FOR YOU. You're doing it for the intended user, which is a lot of users that use all kinds of shit. If you don't want to do that, get the fuck out of web development, or from development overall. It's not for you.
I remember when I started my career, I had to make a web app that was intended to be used by, say, 100 people. As a developer I had the best tools for that - cool new 19" monitors, good GPU able to spit out a humongous resolution, and I designed that portal to look great. You know what my superior did then? He took away my 19" monitor and gave me a 14" monitor instead, saying that I became a spoiled brat that totally ignored the customer. I was angry at that, but immediately realized that he was completely right.
It doesn't matter! that it works on your machine. Who the fuck cares about your machine?
Does the software work for the intended user? If not, then you're a shitty developer.
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works on my machine
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