Open job position: senior engineer Open job position: senior engineer Open job position: senior engineer Open job positi

Ranter

b2plane

6116

Comments

8

Hazarth

8983

210d

Everyone is looking for seniors that they can pay as juniors, what can you do
1

b2plane

6116

210d

@Hazarth why
5

Hazarth

8983

210d

@b2plane what do you mean "why"?

Cheap but professional labor.

No one Really wants juniors and no one Really wants to pay for a senior. It's just Economy 101. The real reason why companies even hire juniors in the first place IS because they eventually don't have a choice or because they are a startup. Theres very little reason to employ a skilless junior
14

CoreFusionX

2986

210d

@Hazarth

Doesn't help that the junior market has been oversaturated by bootcamp noobs that (especially during the pandemic) did a 4 week course and think they are developers now.

If that's the new bar for junior, old juniors are seniors, and old seniors are fucking Jesus Christ.
1

asgs

11498

210d

Let's make it very plain and simple. Employers (almost always) want to extract more for less
0

b2plane

6116

210d

@asgs @Hazarth that's something i already know and we can ignore that fact as the answer here because its pointless, when has a junior Ever been helpful to any company in any point in time?? Never. I never understood the point of wanting to hire juniors if i was a businessman. They are no good and even could be a cockroach by deleting the prod db. So aside from that shit what is the motive of highly looking for seniors particularly in 2023 ? Previous years it was possible to get junior/medior jobs but now seems like everyone wants Google engineers. Why is 2023 so different and why is it so fucked
0

coldfire

3407

210d

Chatgpt taking over the jobs from them. Anything a intern / junior would do, Chatgpt or some other ai model can do much faster and cheaper.
2

asgs

11498

210d

@b2plane I don't think 2023 is any different. The only reason I could think of why certain companies aren't posting jobs for juniors is they trying to backfill the positions

And Juniors/Freshers are not completely useless. They are just not industry ready and production ready. They are hired in the hopes they will become better at some point and eventually do what a senior does. They won't perform up to the expectations on day 1 for sure. Not even on day 100. But possibly on day 366 and most probably on day 1000. Companies have this traditional concept of building teams with different experience levels and roles to ensure balance and to ensure a little bit of redundancy (to adjust to attrition) while not being overly redundant. In the end, it entirely depends on the company and the team/project
1

asgs

11498

210d

Also, not every company is looking for Google-level employees. It is not required and not possible for them to provide that level of a project if they hire one. There are a lot of service providing companies who will happily accept a candidate who can just code well on a whiteboard without bothering beyond it
2

TeachMeCode

4676

210d

@CoreFusionX I never really understood the whole “get a high paying job after 4 months of code camp” thing. It just doesn’t seem possible for MOST people. There will be exceptions-someone who’s brilliantly gifted/lucky/rich parents/was already teaching themselves and spent time doing personal projects beyond todo lists before enrolling, etc. I can see someone with passion who can show a cool personal project they’ve sweated tears over getting a junior role after camp, but less so for some dude who went bc “i know a guy who has a six fig salary who does it and I wanna be rich bitch and this camp says imma make dat shit homez”
0

vintprox

5474

210d

Meanwhile at the Epic Games...
3

SidTheITGuy

8956

210d

Just call yourselves a senior. Boom, problem solved.
2

jsframework9000

2064

210d

Tell me about it. I always have to pretend that I'm at a higher level than I an to get a job and I always end up feeling stressed. And it seems as I level up, job descriptions also level up. When I was a junior, they wanted mid level, when I was mid, they wanted senior. Now I call myself a senior even though I don't feel like one and apply to even staff and lead positions.
And not wanting juniors is weird. They follow directions and can do the simple boring tasks seniors don't want. And there's less conflict than having a bunch of seniors arguing all the time.
4

NeatNerdPrime

4204

209d

@b2plane you'll land a good job soon I hope. Remember that the most of us here want you to succeed in life, career and love. Lady luck favors the persévérant ones.
0

Hazarth

8983

209d

@b2plane I mean, obviously you can't compare 2020 - 2022 with 2023 because during the pandemic the tech companies had a massive boom and were taking on people left and right just to project artificial growth to the shareholders. It was never about employing juniors per se, it was just about increasing the "employees" number, as it looked like the companies were growing more than they actually were. This is why we had massive layoffs ever since, the companies couldn't afford all of those people, since the growth was made up.

Now you should clearly see why tech companies are not taking on any more juniors now, they *just* had a year where they had to let many of them go and they are all collectively full of employees. So it might even be slightly worse than pre 2020 number. But from my experience with the job market it's not significantly worse than it was say in 2018 or 2017. It was always a hussle to get a junior position.
0

Hazarth

8983

209d

Cont'd

From my experience in Slovakia, most juniors/mediors are taken on by small startups, as they have little chance to get a lot of seniors, or for tech jobs for tech-unrelated industries, like clothes stores, flower stores, and whatever else has an online store. Though even that market went down since Shopify and such exists, but there's still a lot of small businesses with a good old wordpress website or some other PHP legacy code.

From my experience the bast chance you have at finding a good junior position is during University via Networking with your classmates. You'll often find someone who already had a position somewhere due to their personal connections and can get you in for a trial run, which might stick.

Obviously you can keep scanning the job postings as well, because sometimes a junior position does pop up, but it's always been rare to just find those except during the pandemic.
0

Hazarth

8983

209d

Cont'd

And ultimately what most companies mean by junior is "You know almost nothing, you have no experience, and we'll have to train you completely or almost completely from scratch".

But if you already had any experience, even personal ones that you can talk about, then you can probably pass an interview for a medior position too. For example if the company uses a React based stack, and you're already somewhat familiar and proficient with react, you can probably pass the interview good enough despite no professional experience.

I'm not gonna tell you that it's easy or anything, cause the job market does suck a bit more than usually probably. I'm lucky to have a stable employment for the past 7 years or so and I don't have to deal with it lol.
1

lungdart

2978

209d

I thought you had 5 years of experience. Why do you want a junior role?
1

b2plane

6116

209d

@lungdart because it seems impossible to get hired in any scenario. im sick of interviews. The new strategy is to apply for a senior position and then ask for $500/month salary to see what happens
2

BugsBuggy

4498

209d

The real reason is, when the money is cheap, they want to invest... Juniors are an investment, hoping that they will start delivering value in 1-1.5 year and will work on whatever new product the company built.

When money becomes expensive, they want seniors who can run the show from day 1. They want to keep the machinery running rather than invest aggressively.

Money being cheap or expensive means how high or low is the interest rate.

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