This is a social experiment! Do you support universal base income?

I don't think it's a good idea, but I don't have a strong opinion about it. I think giving everyone money means giving nobody money, it's essentially just increasing inflation. Also, as bleak as it sounds, but people need to do something. Sitting on your ass all day leads to depression and substance abuse. Yeah it sounds weird saying "people should be forced to work their (maybe not great) jobs" but that's kinda how it is

But idk, I haven't really heard arguments from both sides

It's our only answer for a post automated world.

It will always come with government control and conditions. It will never be fair as well. The system will get gamed. There will still be fuck heads stealing from everyone.

I liked the idea until I learned where money comes from and how it works

ofc your government provided education didn't wanna teach you the mystery behind that cuz it gets pretty dark

all must hate capitalism and greedy rich people instead of realizing the government prints money and steals all your shit, the rich people's shit, and also even other country's shit if they can get their hands on it. there is no "morality shield"

USSR wanted everyone dependent on the government. that's how you get slavery. that's why all their shit sucked. if you don't reward people for being more helpful than other people in their community, nobody wants to become that "helpful sucker". there's nothing in it for you. and insult to injury is then you even become a target of the state, constantly harassed, because you somehow managed to make more fruit from a plant than your neighbour did

don't trust government with jack shit

I support the complete abolition of money as a concept. Just give shit away who tf cares idiot you're gonna die go smoke weed.

@Demolishun print your own money

@jestdotty

all must hate capitalism and greedy rich people instead of realizing the government prints money and steals all your shit, the rich people's shit, and also even other country's shit if they can get their hands on it. there is no "morality shield"

The governement ARE the rich omg how many time should we go through that

@Demolishun Good point actually, it's just another form of forcing obedience. Once you are reliant on handouts you are a slave to the system

@12bitfloat being paid for free is the literal opposite of slavery

@antigermgerm Capitalism isn't only the best system we have, it's the ONLY system that has ever produced positive outcomes on a global scale. Hindu love cults or whatever shit don't count, they aren't on a nation scale

Capitalism is honestly incredibly beautiful. It's freedom, it's celebration of merit, it's accomplishment. I fucking love capitalism

Not corporatism, that sucks. Yes everything has a tendency for corruption, and that corruption has to be fought. But retarded lefties like Marx think capitalism invented greed. lmao fucking retard, that's a HUMAN issue

@12bitfloat one big issue we have now is big companies aren't allowed to fail. So they fuck around, hurt people, and get bailed out. Also, we have permanent reps. So they all get corrupted. Fucking assholes making $200K a year, and in 5 years they are worth $20M or some shit. That fuck Bernie used to complain about millionaires and billionaires. Then stopped complaining about millionaires because he is one. Saying we should sacrifice when the asshole has like 5 homes. When people finally wake up to how bad it is I expect 99% of Washington DC to be in jail.

@Demolishun True, and capitalism of course has a tendency towards corruption and monopolies. But that's because humans have a tendency towards that. There is no system that will ever fix this

Still, we should fight back against this shit as much as we can, because it really is bad

@Demolishun It does look bleak though. Especially in america it's an open secret that everybody is bought and paid for

But I suspect it's the same in the EU. There is just no way that these governments can systemically govern against the citizens OVER and OVER and OVER. It's an actual fucking joke

With the risk of being hyper annoying: could you please tag posts like this with "random" in the future. The "rant" category is mainly for dev related rants, while "random" is for stuff like this which is entirely non dev.

I wanna filter my devRant feed to prevent it from turning into a general forum, but usually I just remove the "random" category as I still wanna read dev related rants.

@jiraTicket The irony this is coming from an account called "jiraTicket" lol

But you're right, I'm also guilty of not choosing the category correctly. I will try to do so in the future

I think the welfare state is going decently well across Europe, it's not great for everyone but it has been softening our concept of a really hard life, and it persisted for a while, and I think these two are some of the most important metrics of success for states, so I don't think we lack a path forward. That being said, it's certainly worth some experimentation.

There aren't many capitalist societies left.

It stopped when we stopped owning things and started renting them. Capitalist own things.

I don't know what this new system is called, but it's post capitalism and it's worse.

The Best years were because of communism during ww2. Planned economies, rationed goods and services, and boom, decades of wealth.

@jiraTicket I honestly don't think that categorization will ever happen anymore. People rant about a ton of non-dev stuff anymore.

@Demolishun True. I've even suggested to DevRant people that adding some distinction between dev-categories and non-dev-categories, but there's no interest in changing anything.

"rant" is totally open to interpretation.

@jiraTicket I think we are lucky the site is even up at this point. Yeah, its definitely a box of chocolates anymore.

@jiraTicket Everything is dev-related.

@donkulator I wish. There's lots of general posts about topics like Ukraine war and dead celebrities.

PS: sorry to everyone for hijacking this thread.

Who pays for it when everyone just decides to stop working?

What happens when it becomes unsustainable and it has to be stopped?

I think a more reasonable approach is abolishing taxes and making money how they did before the income tax was weaseled into the Constitution. That would help actual taxpayers and not just enable the types that cause trouble because they have infinite time on their hands.

@cuddlyogre from what I understand income tax was never constitutional. But if you ask too many questions you just die. It is basically by force theft. See what happens if you don't. I am so pissed that my country was fucked 50 years before I was even born. The number of people becoming aware of this is growing every day as well. There is a righteous storm brewing.

No, but I do support abolition of income tax. Fuck that theft.

@12bitfloat yeah you're brainwashed.

Still, paying people to sit on their ass all day is the exact opposite of slavery. Slavery is making people work without paying them.

@int32 ofc you do you nazi

@int32 Ideally the only taxes would be consumption taxes.

@antigermgerm Being dependent on somebody coddling you isn't freedom, you are now a slave to them. They can at any point deny what you require to life. It's better to stand on your own two feet

@int32 500%, people don't tend to realise how much they are actually getting taxed as an accumulation because the taxes are so spread out

@blindXfish I think it will be inevitable, though I do think it would be best to keep it to something like minimum wage so that people still have a goal to work towards, and it doesn't cause too much inflation as @12bitfloat hinted at

@12bitfloat that's boomer crap. Freedom is working at the factory under the treat of starvation. Yeah sure.

If orwell wasn't such a CIA bitch he would prolly have something to say about this. Paying people is slavery. Peace soldiers in ukraine. Water is dry.

@BordedDev i dont care about paying taxes so that my mum can have a job at the hospital.

The issue is the bitches who steal the money.

But the americans are coup'ing everybody who even tries to put on a gulag.

@antigermgerm Oh sure, the taxes themselves aren't the problem. I just dislike how they're spread all over the place, I'd rather it be on spending/purchasing or acquisition - hell preferably they'd be on business transactions, the opposite of what we have now as the standard.

@antigermgerm Being a wage slave is also bad, but at least your work has intrinsic value

If you get fired you can always find another job that will pay for your skillset

If the government doesn't want to give free money anymore, and your life depends on that, you're fucked

@antigermgerm There I was thinking I paid taxes so that people could get treated at the hospital.

@donkulator yea she's a nurse

@12bitfloat true

Thus the one party state and the gulags

@antigermgerm I like your problem solving skills

@antigermgerm under capitalism if someone steals the money you can fire them/never interact with them and there there is no more theft. this is not the case under socialistic systems where you can't leave and the theifs just pretend they were democratically elected

working for a place to sleep and basic bitch food to eat and nothing extra you can ever work towards is slavery and the state of most people these days, therefore are in slavery. subsistence is not freedom. doesn't offer you any "optionality". and in places even "good wages" can't even afford you a meat diet which is pretty nuts. that's going from slavery to cult is starving you so they can get in your head