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linuxxx
301d

Oh for crying out loud, Github is stopping with the term 'master' due to its 'negative association'.

Can we please not pull everything out of goddamn context and not be a fucking offended special snowflake with ANYTHING that could potentially be thought of in a way that could be associated with slavery?!

If we're gonna do it like this I want to ask people of color not to use white/light themed websites/backgrounds.

Comments
  • 37
    And when they started to hunt down our repos based on our nationality people thought it was ok.
  • 19
    It's all so ridiculous, hopefully one day this inane sjw'ing stop. good thing there are options for GitHub at least
  • 10
    Next thing we know, the hard drive thing
  • 78
    This whole controversy is completely out of control. You see everywhere blind actionism like changing terms like black- and whitelist since they are now apparently racist.

    I have never seen anyone use those words in a racist context. They steems from darkness being something shady, untrustworthy or simply bad. Therefore we have words like black market. But those don't stem from a race context.

    Besides that, you're NOT fighting racism by banning words and symbols. Racism is an ideology. By banning words, you're just changing tokens. They will find new words and symbols to express their views.

    The current actionism is hurting the cause more then anything, as even regular folks will at this point view those actions as meaningless. They will slowly get the feeling that they are just getting knocked around.

    I dread where all of this will end.
  • 1
    @TheAwesome98 What πŸ˜…
  • 26
    Well, they can do whatever they want, but if it somehow impacts my pipelines, I will go fucking nuclear.
  • 27
    Parents killing their children are still ok though...
  • 2
    @Makenshi Well now that the guy (whatever his name was, rip) has been buried, it will blow over very quickly as these things typically do. (although maybe not this time because corona)
  • 6
    @lanfiro Make Git Centralized Again
  • 1
    Makes me glad that I'm not master of anything.
  • 7
    Well time to try out some alternative git hosts then
  • 4
    @Makenshi you are absolutely right! Banning racist ideologies is more important than merely banning words
  • 0
    Where did you find that?
  • 0
    @PrivateGER https://zdnet.com/article/...

    Not just Github, but a plethora of projects
  • 3
    Just wait until they find out about i2c
  • 13
    What's it gonna be now? Führer?
  • 1
    @PrivateGER tweakers.net, one of the biggest Dutch tech site's/fora
  • 10
    Can’t you just walk around this by replacing the master branch with another branch and keep naming it ’master’?πŸ˜‚πŸ˜…
    Annoying to do that on every repo thoughπŸ€”
  • 6
    @PetriJ Easy, you can write a bot!
  • 31
    Shame on any of you who called yourselves Web"masters" you absolute fascists.
  • 6
    @lanfiro

    I am interested in your concept of decentralize git but how would it actually work?

    For example if I want to clone a repo where would I clone it from? I need a tracker which keep track of where I could clone a repo from. Is it that some kind of centralization?

    How would I know how far behind the certain repo is from other repo? It will make the life easier where I could see the latest official commit and which repo have the lastest official commit. That will in turn mark repo from certain people as "reliable" and other as "not reliable."

    People will just use that "reliable repo" which in turn become centralize in a de facto way.

    Even a decentralize technology such as "torrent" need some kind of centralization (tracker) to make it work.

    I am genuinely curious about how the decentralization will work with git. I would like for you to exchange your options with me.
  • 1
    @mr-user I think he merely meant that Github centralized like 95 % (or more) of OSS code instead of individual developers/maintainers hosting them independently
  • 3
    @asgs

    I don't see what wrong with that. You could say that one organization controlling it is kind of problematic but if Github becoming too controlling we can just switch to other alternative hosting or self host it.

    The git technology make is too easy to say "Bye Github, I am switching."
  • 2
    @mr-user well, for starters, have a look at the way Linux is managed (after all, Git was practically invented for it).

    What decentralization means for Git, is that there is no central repository that developers need to subscribe to in order to make sure that they can merge their code (this was an issue with CVS and the like). Which also means that they can commit to anyone else's tree (forks).

    However, when people complain about Github being centralized vs. Git being decentralized, I think they are mistaking the two things. Github has centralization in the monopoly sense of the word, that most OS repos are on Github, so when they do things like this, it affects a large majority of new projects. Git being decentralized has nothing to do with this. Git being decentralized means I can fork the code, and then merge it back later without any major issues (that's basically it).
  • 0
    @lanfiro see my comment above (forgot to mention you).
  • 6
    @eval I'm with you on this one. Don't the stupid fucks realize they try to hide history so it can repeat itself so easily.

    In this case I don't know if it is a SJW thing or an ill found way for MS to show solidarity.
  • 0
    @mr-user I didn't say anything was wrong with that. I was merely clarifying what he told
  • 7
    I'm sort of in the middle here. If it's "genuinely" upsetting a significant portion of black users, then sure, please change it. It seems daft to me but hey - I'm not the one who's going to be upset by it, and I don't really care what it's called in practice. (Just change it to something consistent, please.)

    However, if it's not, and it's just Github trying to jump on the latest bandwagon to show how cool they are - drop it, please.
  • 4
    I just don't really care what it's called as long as it doesn't break anything and has the same semantic meaning
  • 9
    Orwell warned us well in advance about the control of language and terminology as a means of political subversion.
  • 7
    Human society is fucking trash. I hate it. Everything now days is offensive, everything is fucking racist. Eventing has to be a conspiracy. Lots of fucking retards trying to sound smart.

    That's the issue with all those people, they want to change and affect everything surrounding them. What is GitHub doing now? Ahh, of course, they are such fucking pussies, scared of a small group of people, that think the word "master" is racist.

    Nowadays if sex between men sounds weird for you, you're classified as a fucking son of a bitch, homophobic that deserves to die. WTF I don't care if you fucking fuck your grandma and your mom, just don't tell me if you don't want to hear my fucking opinion, while you don't fucking affect me, for me, it's fine for you to do whatever the fuck you want.
  • 2
    What happend on with that black guy that got killed was wrong. But there was no need to fucking burn up cities and fucking destroy businness, and the fucking media talking about how mad protesters were when clearly they were a bunch of fucking retarded college kids that were destroying everthing.
    Now that they want to fucking take out all police apartments, now lets see how they fucking come up crying about that their house got robbed and shit like that. Fucking pleading to bring police back. The family of the guy got millionare, not what did you win for protesting and destroying everything? Sent to jail? beaten up by police and now what? Did you also got rich?

    What else do we need? Ahh yeah, the retarded people that think that if they get beaten up by police because of protesting they can get rich too. Then lots of retarded kids on other countries do the same because they got tired of making TikToks.
  • 4
    Also the fucking president, omg he does makes me want to become unconcious like rock. The guys gets killed, what do I say??

    option 1: Lets make justice, the policemen will have hard consecuences.
    option 2: Lets start the killing.

    Which is best? (Chooses option 2)

    Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fu fsahpjsa o fhjfdsaijfdsvlijfduck

    I really fucking hate were humanity is heading to. I sometimes wish to be a fucking rock and not be aware of all the fucking shit that is going on in this world.
  • 6
    @Bybit260 I sometimes dream of a world where I push to git, get paid for commits signed by me in some cryptocurrency, talk to people through IM software and I never ever have to talk to a human being about anything beyond the complexity of "Excuse me, where do I find the cayanne pepper, I didn't see it with the other spices."
    It could be a wonderful world, but we're not quite there yet. First everything on this earth has to be so rotten that there would be significant demand for a life away from humanity, a life without identity.
  • 4
    Put me in power and I'll push these snowflakes into having a stroke.
  • 2
    The tears are delicious to be honest.
  • 0
    @lanfiro That's hex? But still it'd be 0,0,0

    It does make sense it's zero considering it represents brightness... But don't let that stop them from trying
  • 15
    brb removing my master degree from my cv
  • 8
    Master Card is in big trouble... Ain't gonna use them until they rename to Main Card!
  • 4
    @gitpush , the loser will be Amex Black card.
  • 4
    @thatDude no more white boards at school too... And later on ban the use of while and black colors πŸ˜’
  • 2
    Wait ... Is this shit for real?!?!?!?
    Where does it fucking end...
  • 4
    @DevKev It's a rabbit hole, I think the sjw stuff in the west can only be ended by a major world war where the West either invade each other or is invaded.

    It seems like when humans are in too much comfort they put their energy in the most meaningless crap.
  • 1
    @v3ctor I told my grandpa exactly the same... It's just sad
  • 1
    Mysql master slave cloning: *hides in a corner*
  • 1
    The world is full of these sjw tampons that need to have a day off, cunts.
  • 1
    So you have a masters degree?
  • 1
    I know what do you means with context. Its fucking useless to fight against noting..

    Black/White things off context
    Man/Woman things off context

    But the racism is real and gender thing is real to ( talk about man woman equity ).

    But Github is off context "master branch" is not "White power branch" πŸ˜” so please people, fight for the real things
  • 2
    Idiots will always be idiots. Next time They will be suing The Pokemon Company for making specific Pokemons white only without the black version for equality.

    That and the fact that Brock is black and has small eyes, a racist gesture towards Blacks and Asians.
  • 0
    @Ranchu his preferred pronoun is LEATHER DADDY.
  • 0
    @ars1 < this guy gets it. some of us just want to watch the world burn. you havent learned to sit back, relax, and eat your popcorn yet.
  • 1
    I do already self host Gitea for all my git needs
  • 1
    I guess I'm completely against "social justice" and support "social equality" instead.
  • 5
    Would it not a better to support black lives matter be to use some of the millions in profit Microsoft makes and use that to actually make black lives better?

    People of all colours don't need you to change a word on a website or put up a dark theme to support them.

    they need you to put funding up to improve neighborhoods, education, family services, job prospects.

    You know things that would actually make the lives of black people better.
  • 5
    @vorticalbox Sure but what does Microsoft have to do with this?
  • 4
    @linuxxx other than they own github, nothing I guess.
  • 7
    @vorticalbox github has zero to do with BLM. That github is gravely pulling something out of context is sad imo.
  • 5
    @linuxxx it's all just publicity. Means nothing and doesn't make anyone's life better.
  • 6
    Actually, it makes life a little harder. The „master” convention is well established. Many tools assume it. A lot of blog posts are now outdated. People learning git for the first time will have to keep this rename in mind. There will be people who accidentally push to master out of habit.
  • 5
    Did they make that change already? As soon as they do we ought to bomb-mail their support with "I think your git hosting got broken because there's no convention-required master" variations.
  • 3
    I'm for spamming the fuck out of githubs mail
  • 2
    @raging-coder101 we could just write a bot to do it..
  • 1
    @Wisecrack let's get cracking then, what stack we using? πŸ˜‚ πŸ˜‚
  • 3
    @raging-coder101 May I suggest bash with sendmail? Or Python, if you really need to run it on Windows. But this would literally be a single sendmail command.
  • 6
    From what I’ve seen, it’s mostly been White people speaking out about the master branch thing and suggesting alternatives, because it’s a low effort means of signaling that you care without actually having to care. I’m in the middle on the issue personally. I don’t really have that much investment in the name of my main branch being master, so I’m slowly starting to switch because it’s low-effort and “main” feels more descriptive to me anyway.

    But I feel like whenever people get to the point that they’re squabbling over word choice, they’re avoiding dealing with the more important issues, like reforming: education, police training and accountability, qualified immunity, the legal/justice system, healthcare, and fixing infrastructure and working on global warming.
  • 1
    I like WordPress for going trunk as it better matches the branching metaphor. But that's it. The rest is just just more hassle.
  • 2
    If someone has a masters degree does it mean they are a slave owner now?
  • 3
    This is like changing amen to awomen 🀣
  • 1
    @shakur i think he wouldn't. He has a record of annoying the fuck out of the SJW Gang.
  • 0
    @shakur Its way more likely he is absolutely laughing his face off.
  • 1
    @JoshuaBehrens They matched SVN convention, you know, that more enterprise-friendly VCS that already solved most of the issues GIT hosting platforms are facing nowadays.
  • 1
    These companies could be making publicity/marketing out of this, but I don't really care. If it is what it takes to implement dark theme globally, my eyes would be very glad
  • 2
    It’s a fracking joke, political correctness has gone too far, the snowflakes have been given too much power.

    This is what happens when you change from a spoon to a timeout, you breed wankers instead of people.
  • 1
    @cprn I am aware. And they matched the tree-trunk-branch metaphors like git could have done in the first place. I had the pleasure to use SVN in production. Dated software needs to be in a dated vcs, doesn't it? πŸ˜…
  • -1
    Guys, calm the fuck down.

    It’s just a branch name.

    You’re a bunch of programmers, you’re supposed to have exceptional flexibility and capacity of thought.

    You can surely put the five minutes of thought to find out why this is happening.

    It’s just a branch name, it’s not a big deal.
  • 0
    @chrisalexthomas well it can really be annoying for beginners especially.but that's not the point. The point is that it doesn't actually help the problem. If it actually did, few people would complain.
  • 0
    @eval I doubt it’s annoying for any beginner. They don’t have any extensive amount of time with the old system that is worth complaining about. The most of the outrage is from more experienced people who just seem to be upset over nothing.

    This isn’t a hill worth dying on, just get over it
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas Oh no, I won't 'get over' it.

    The thing is, where does this madness stop? In this way, you can pull so much out of context...
    Do we have to rename the Dutch word "meester" (literal translation of master, also in the same context) as well now while this can also mean being a pro at something (a master, in this case) or a teacher (a meester is also a teacher in Dutch)?

    Of course not, because it has zero to do with slavery. And that's why we shouldn't rename these things.
  • 0
    @linuxxx except that’s a straw man argument. I suspect master degrees will also continue to use that word despite being the same word.

    You need to stop thinking about your own little world where you are comfortable and start thinking about the people who live outside of your bubble.

    Yes it’s uncomfortable to change, but no doubt that you’re an intelligent guy and I doubt this change will harm you in any way, but it would help others.

    When does it end? That’s a ridiculous question. It of course ends when there isn’t anything else we can do to set right our society. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • 0
    @chrisalexthomas The fact that you see this as setting society right shows how narrow minded you are. Don't try and act intelligent by saying it's "a straw man argument" look for context in the world instead of kneejerk reactions
  • 0
    @odite the fact that you don’t see the need to fix society when it’s so obviously and obtusely broken. Isn’t a problem at all?
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas I do in many ways. Not one of them include changing language, however.
  • 0
    @odite and btw, just like removing statues doesn’t change history. Changing a branch name doesn’t change language.

    As programmers, I expected you to understand that implicitly without anybody needing to point it out
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas There countless ways we can attempt to make society fairer and "good" for everyone without hindering conversation with changes to language.
  • 0
    @odite again, nobody is changing language, we are changing a branch name. I expect you to know the difference.
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas You really don't see things past the surface level, do you?
  • 0
    @odite I’m literally the one asking you to see past the surface and see this issue and how it affects other people and you’re still going on about how this is changing language ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas Yeah, I'm out
  • 0
    @odite good call tbh
  • 4
    @chris this is all hypocrisy man. I would like to see organizations tackle real issues and not renaming master to main or whatever. It's all a ruse, because master-slave nomenclature is very clear to anyone who has studied the subject. Black people in USA like to act as if they are the only people who have been enslaved in all of history.

    Heck in Libya black people are traded like chicken to date and renaming a branch to master is the silliest contribution to tackling the issue I have ever heard.

    But anyways I get it several Americans have their heads so up their a-holes all they do is smell each other farts. They can rename whatever they want but we can be honest about it; It's a bloody unfruitful virtue signalling circlejerk
  • 0
    @v3ctor how is it hypocritical though? I can see how it’s inconsistent. But I don’t understand why you say it’s hypocritical
  • 0
    @v3ctor renaming git branches isn’t going to stop people from being traded as slaves in Libya. But that isn’t the goal in the first place.

    Just because we can’t solve all problems, doesn’t mean we can’t solve the ones we have the ability to solve. Which is what is happening here. So I see it as solving a problem that people have in America and Europe.

    But the problem with the slave trade in Libya is still an outstanding issue that needs to be solved. The sooner the better.
  • 0
    @v3ctor that isn’t what hypocrisy means though. You mean inconsistency.

    How does it help people? I’m not going to waste my time repeating what is already written by GitHub on the matter. Go and read their motivations and come back and chat here if you still have any issues.
  • 2
    @chris I know I can hardly convince you that it's virtue signalling(which is literally hypocrisy), but time will tell right?
    When westerners have renamed and scrapped every bit of "master" and other offensive language and terminologies and the intended outcome has been achieved then they can pat themselves in the back for eradicating racism, let's just hope it helps soothe African American egos for the time being
  • 0
    @v3ctor the fact that you see people changing their environment to be more inclusive and less oppressive to others who are asking for those things to be changed. Says a lot about you as a person.

    Helping others at your own expense isn’t virtue signaling. It’s just being a kind and decent person.

    Not all people do things for others because they expect something in return.
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas like I said let's hope the "results" speak for themselves. No point in flogging a dead horse here, you have your opinion which I don't want to influence/change in any way.

    Good thing the universe has a sneaky way of reminding us of reality and measurable outcomes, in a few or a possibly many years all will be laid out bare to be studied as history.
  • 0
    @v3ctor exactly, I totally agree. When women won back their rights, at the beginning there was maybe a handful of men who agreed. Virtue signaling I suppose? Then the situation evolved and there was a succession of men who agreed. 10, 20, 500, 1000, etc.

    Every step forward counts, no matter how small
  • 2
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas you're not black, right? If a big part of black people actually felt uneasy by hearing these words, we MIGHT have to try tl adapt. But the reality is, that it's white SJWs that feel like we need to change such things. It just never really made sense to do these kinds of adjustments.

    We need to stop police in the US shooting black people for little to no reason. We do NOT need language changes. Why not call blacks blacks but people of color? It's simply wrong. And it helps noone. It might even do damage, because it portrays the word black as sth negative. Which it isn't, neither for a Theme, nor skin or anything else.
    If you want to help, then fight racists, not words. Just like we don't need feminism, but instead equality.
  • 0
    @eval oh boy, so much to unpack here, that I just don’t know where to begin.

    Black lives matter is a movement to call attention to the atrocious ways PoC are treated by society that we have ignored for so long. It doesn’t mean that white people don’t matter. It just means that specifically PoC need help because they’re the one getting targeted.

    Feminism is a movement for similar reasons and the fact that I have to tell you these things because you apparently don’t understand them, is incredibly worrying.
  • 0
    @eval I mean, you’re saying that we don’t need feminism and I just have no idea why you think that’s the case.

    Ask a woman that you don’t personally know whether she needs feminism and I reckon you’ve got a good chance they’ll tell you that they do need it.

    So again, maybe you need to step outside your bubble a bit and stop trying to see things through the filter you’ve got setup around you that apparently stop you from seeing issues clearly
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas equality. It all comes down to equality. Honestly, what people like you do they do for themselves. It makes YOU feel better. Not anyone else.
  • 0
    @eval I’m 100% sure that when as a white male, when I support feminism and black lives matter, I don’t do it for myself at all.

    A quick look in the mirror confirms this to be undeniably true.

    Why would you think otherwise?
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas because it gives you the feeling that you did something good for black people of women. But in many cases, you only annoyed a few people (including woman and black people) and didnt make anyone's live better.
    If you want to actually help, engage in politics, try to help get radical punishment for stuff like what happened to floyd, for all of the people involved. Or help in a soup kitchen. Buy some food for a beggar.
  • 0
    @eval how do you not know I don’t already do some of those things?

    Maybe instead of jumping to wild, unsubstantiated assumptions. You can start to address your own dismissive attitude when it comes to the problems of others.

    You appear to prefer when people protest in the way you think is appropriate, or talk about issues in a way that you agree with, you’re not in control of those elements of this equation and you’ll never be.

    If you don’t want to support the movement, that’s fine, but don’t tell others how they should do it, cause it’s not your business.
  • 5
    @chrisalexthomas as a none white person this renaming of the branch because it’s a word that means something else in another context is a fucking joke. It’s pandering to fucking pansies who where brought up to be worthless pussies who will offer zero benefit to society.

    No fucking way am I going to rename my branch because some fucking wanker gets offended out of context, he/she/it can fuck odd and die, save the oxygen for more intelligent people.
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas Let's take the word blacklist. It's been changed to deny list at several places. But, for one, the term blacklist in this context has nothing to do with slavery. For two, a deny list is not technically the same as a blacklist in all contexts within cyber security (this was changed in the context of a cyber security thing).

    I'm not fine with this change for both the context and the meaning of the word.

    And, one very important thing here; just because you interpret me being 'offended' about this change being about comfort/'my own little world', doesn't mean this is correctly interpreted.
  • 0
    @RTRMS and you’re free to do that, but you aren’t the only person on the planet. It’s about everybody, not just you.
  • 3
    @chrisalexthomas no, it’s about a vast minority forcing their illogical opinions on the rest of us. They no better than flat earthers and antivaxers. Honestly I respect them more, we not jumping over our feet to agree with their psychosis.
  • 0
    @linuxxx google that video about Mohammed Ali asking his mother why everything good is white and why everything bad is black. You’ll maybe start to see why people want to change this language to something that has a less polarized language.
  • 0
    @chrisalexthomas context moron, context
  • 0
    @RTRMS wouldn’t a vast minority be a majority? Isn’t that how those two words work?

    Surely the reality of the situation is that *YOU* are the minority and isn’t it true that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?

    Think about it.
  • 0
    @RTRMS I provided context, moron. That’s literally what I’ve been doing in my comments.
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas it’s nothing about needs of any, it’s about doing stupid shit to areas overly sensitive people for senseless illogical reasons.

    While we encouraging psychosis why not stop vaccinating too.
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas no you been spouting nonsense.
  • 0
    @RTRMS so you think people making rational decisions based on opinions that are clearly spelt out is psychosis?

    So basically, everybody who doesn’t agree with you, is crazy, right?
  • 0
    @RTRMS am I using too many long words? If draw you a picture, would that help?
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas Not everything, some stuff in some contexts. Unless you want to argue that my black computer case is bad? Or my black chair?

    Context.

    I know someone who binds this to religion. Black=satan=bad. White=god=good. This has nothing to with skin color in their religion and they would feel uncomfortable with changing this.

    So, are their feelings less important than a person of colors'?
  • 3
    @chrisalexthomas so being offended by a word out of context is sane?

    What’s next, we going to rename butter because it offends someone, what about Uranus, let’s rename that, that’s offensive, socks, I’m sure if you rotted a rock into these crowds of morons you’ll hit someone offended by that word too.

    This has duck all to do with offensive words, it’s some wankers adding offensive meanings to out of context words.
  • 0
    @linuxxx this issue isn’t that complicated man. Why can’t you just listen for a second.

    We just want to depolarize words that we use as developers which have specific contexts that imply something that is bad, banned, blocked, worthless, as a “black” something. And something that is good, accepted, permitted, useful, as a “white” something.

    There are plenty of other usages of those exact same words which won’t need to be changed because they don’t also attach a negative bias to them.

    I’m sorry if you can’t see why it’s important and I’m sorry if you think it’s unnecessary. But other people do think it’s necessary, and those people are in positions of power.

    I’m not in that specific position of power, but I agree with them.

    Not out is psychosis or anything dumb like that. But out of a genuine desire to see less polarized language in my work environment.

    I’m not virtue signaling. I’m just a reasonable man who agrees with their sentiments.
  • 0
    @RTRMS I’m personally not offended by those words. But I can see how they have positive and negative polarization’s and I’m happy to change them since it requires no effort on my part that I won’t be paid for and I can make somebody feel more included.

    It’s not psychosis, or dumb, or deranged. It’s called empathy. Something you apparently lack
  • 2
    HEATED ARGUMENT
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas I don't think you're reasonable but that's my opinion and besides the point. I just simply don't agree that we should change a word if it offends some people (even if some people means half the world) when it has nothing to do with something negative in that context.

    This also would come down to a form of self censorship which I highly disagree with.

    And as for my example, this wasn't fictional. This person would have a problem with the change for religious reasons. So I guess his context isn't important enough, then?

    Comment 1/2
  • 2
    @chrisalexthomas Also, I'm not a fan of the BLM movement since I've been called 'fucking entitled' due to my skin color (which is racist, for the record) and I've been in conversations with BLM supporters (colored ones, for the context) and most of them pretty much agreed that my arguments aren't as valid since I'm white. That's plain racism right there. That has nothing to do with social justice. But apparently I can't participate in the conversation because I'm white and don't agree with it?!

    Comment 2/2
  • 2
    @linuxxx sorry mate I’m out8 suggest I do the same. There is no point playing chess with a pidgin.

    Best case he is a troll, worth case he truly is a moron.
  • 1
    @RTRMS No problem! Just for the record, are you a coloured person actually?
  • 0
    @linuxxx it’s not racism. If you’re a white person. You’ve never experienced racism in your entire life. You might have encountered discrimination. But that’s a different thing.

    Racism is the exploitation of the discrepancy of power between two groups of people, from the powerful group towards the weaker group.

    Racism is systematic. As in the entire framework of society is pitched against an entire group of people and this is all pretty well documented and discussed.

    But I doubt you’re going to understand this since you apparently can’t understand things until they personally affect you. Your lack of empathy is astonishing to be honest
  • 0
    @RTRMS that’s my thoughts too, but I’m still willing to play chess with you in the hope you you eventually learn something. But it doesn’t seem to be the case.
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    @linuxxx yes, which is why I always enjoying it when a card carrying member of the master race...

    An example a offensive usage...

    Tries to explain racial sensitivity to me, I live in South Africa, I was still a member of the “inferior race” when I was born. My mother was forced to walk around with a “dumb pass” to be allowed to walk in the street.

    So I am genetically allowed to be outraged by this bullshit.

    Above was offensive, master branch nor master bate is offensive.
  • 0
    @RTRMS sure you are, nobody has stated otherwise right?

    But you’re NOT the only black person in the world. So think about it logically, rationally, as a programmer.

    There are other people, not just you, who are affected by this. And guess what? Shockingly, they don’t agree with you.

    So by all means, keep your branches as master, tell other people racism isn’t a problem because you’re ok. Argue and fight with people who are trying to help to change the world.

    But this isn’t just about you, I’m thinking about the millions of people who do benefit from my actions. Not the one person on devRant who disagrees with me.

    You said context is important right? So there you go, plenty of context there.
  • 0
    @chrisalexthomas did you really just call black people weaker? Nice wording from someone like you.
    Black people were exploited - and they are being discriminated today. But they aren't weaker
  • 0
    @eval no, I didn’t, are you so out of arguments that you now have to stoop so low as to twist other peoples words?

    Not a good look mate, have some dignity and try to be honest in your discussions with others instead of doing silly things like that, it makes you look bad
  • 0
    @chrisalexthomas i know you didnt want to insult anyone. But it could be interpreted like this with less effort than interpreting master in a bad way.

    The main point however is, that you telling us racism can't go against white people is racist. Fact, not opinion.
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    @eval it’s not a fact though. It’s your subjective opinion based on not wanting to believe what racism is. You’ve concocted this roundabout way so you can claim you’re being oppressed too.

    You’re effectively trying to derail the discussion so it can never be resolved in a way that doesn’t benefit you. Regardless of what the correct solution is. I’ve spoken countless times with people who hold similar opinions. Say similar things. And come to the same incorrect conclusions.

    You can’t be racist against whites people, because whites people are the controlling, dominant force.

    You can be biased, you can oppress them, but you can’t be racist against them. Since racism is a systematic property. Not a localized one that you’re attempted to demonstrate
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    It seems that in this debate there's only "blacks" who meet racisim daily. In the opposite corner there's "whites" who never meet any racism.

    Where did the rest of the 3 billion people go? You know, those non-white, non-blacks? I guess muslim and China-jokes are still ok inside the BLM movement?

    Locally I've now seen a lot of people politically moving to right wing parties because of this nonsense. So that's the result.
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    @thatDude the last March I went to had everybody, I dunno from where you are drawing these conclusions from.

    More people moving to the right? Good. All the fakers are falling off and only the real believers are left. I’m ok with that
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas , the point is that neutral side people are tipping to the conservative side. Not because they originally were like that, but because of this BS that is now seen. There are things that really should be done for equality and everything, but then you get a bunch of people who just ruin it with ridiculous ideas. First there's people saying they want to end racial profiling, police burtality and social discrimination. And suddenly there's bunch of clowns joining their ranks shouting for "let's change the master-slave naming in the electronics". Or crying about word Master in GIT repo. And this just takes out the focus and credibility from the original guys with real issues and problems. It's like going to serious scientifical debate about global warming and your partner is Ronald McDonald.

    From DevRant point of view, I think this topic might be too political. There's no end for this debate and this same shit is being dug in all forums across the internet.
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    @thatDude Good, Bye Felicia.

    Seriously. If renaming branches on github is a tipping point for you. Then you were never really supporting the situation in the first place. That type of person were the literal virtue signallers.

    I’m happy they left tbh
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    @thatDude imagine the thought process.

    “I was with them until they started changing git branch names! Then that was one change too far! So I decided the best course of action for me was to change sides and be with the fascists and right wing hate mob that happily cheer when black people are murdered by cops”

    I mean, that’s effectively what you’re saying, that people would rather side with those guys, than depolarize language to be less offensive to certain groups of people.

    So yeah, I’m glad they left.

    You know there is an old German saying. Paraphrased, it goes like this:

    “If you sit at a table for a good drink and something to eat with 10 other fascists, then there are 11 fascists at the table”

    Just saying.
  • 1
    @chrisalexthomas. Nobody is stating that racism isn't a problem... I know it is. And, just because the majority of racism is towards people of color, does not mean people of color can't be racist towards white people.

    As for the master-slave thing, it just shows the power relation between two things/entities. It can be used in a human slavery case (we've had this in a white master/black slave and black master/white slave context in history), in a sexual case, in a server case.... but when someone would get offended when hearing it while its said in a different context than how they're interpreting.... that's not the problem of the person saying that in a non-slavery context.

    Same as with the black/whitelist thing. I never thought about it much but someone I know interprets it in a non-slavery related religion way and when they use it that way, that's completely fine.
    But also, the British NCSC changed blacklist to denylist. I wouldn't mind it as much if it wouldn't be based on a pulled-out-of-context thing but those terms have actual different meanings. A deny list is meant for denying (firewall level or similar), a blacklist can be used for that as well but also a list of blacklisted words and only giving a warning to a user when they use one, setting up (black)list for possibly malicious domains... but it does not mean denying everything per-se. And, again, it has nothing to do with race, just with a color.

    And no, I don't support the BLM movement for as far as I've seen/experienced it. Not because I'm a racist (I'm) but because I've yet to meet a BLM person who doesn't immediately bashes me into the ground when I explain stuff like this.
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    @linuxxx quite rightly too by the sound of it. Maybe you should start acting like the intelligent person you claim to be? Instead of sticking your head in the ground and purposely ignoring the issues that you’re being faced with.
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    Well, reality is what it is. "Master" will stay, "slave" will stay. I've never seen them being used in racial context before this BLM movement. Maybe BLM guys should get over it and find something else to stomp their feet on.
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    @thatDude hold up, you’ve never seen master and slave used in a racist context before? Are you serious right now?
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    @chrisalexthomas you hurt the ones you claim to want to help, even if only indirectly.
    Also, the slavery thing is kinda useless. Just like the germans living today aren't the ones that were murdering jews in ww2 times, the whites living now aren't slave owners. Yes, there are nazis and racists, and they are bad people. But we must not generalize.

    Saying all germans are nazis would be just as bad as saying all blacks are criminals. And it's just as wrong to depict whites as slave owners or tyrants. And no go look up the definition of racism. It can go against anyone. (And no, i was never opressed or anything. And my friends are quite diverse, not because that's important to me, but because i don't give a single fuck weather someone is black, homosexual, a woman or a man or whatever. It's as simple as that.)
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    @eval ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    @chrisalexthomas Now you're putting words in my mouth. Please show me the comment where I claim this?

    I'm fucking done with you. The second someone puts words in my mouth in a discussion, I'm done.

    I've given you plenty of arguments but if you're going to simply ignore everything, what's the point in even trying?

    I never claimed I'm intelligent. I think I'm about average when it comes to that. But, I'm very good at what I do and what I do regularly requires a lot of (analytical) brain power and creative thinking.

    And to end this, I don't mind discussing things at all, I like it! But, when I've given some arguments multiple times (arguments which show why context REALLY matters) and I don't see a single reaction to that argument, how can you even continue a discussion?
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    @linuxxx you said that people are being driven away from the movement because of things such as the topic we are discussing. That’s it’s going too far for them.

    So I’m just stating that if renaming branches and depolarizing language is enough to drive you into the arms of the fascists on the right, the side who laughed when George Floyd was murdered. Then I’m saying good riddance to them.

    How is that putting words into your mouth? It’s a literal restating of what you just said ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    @linuxxx I’ve literally answered each of your comments and replied to their context. The problem you’re having is that the closer we get to what you’re truly saying, the more abhorrent it sounds, which is why you’re so upset about my last comment. Because it lays bare the nasty truth of what you’re saying.

    It can be stated thusly: “People aren’t wanting to support black lives matter because they feel they are going too far, but the other side of that coin is full of racists, fascists, and demagoguery”

    So if wanting to clean house turns you into somebody who sided with racists, then what type of person were you really, truly, in the beginning?

    That’s the ugly core of the matter
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    @linuxxx or put even more simply.

    People are more willing to stand with fascists and racists against the BLM movement, than change a branch name on their github.

    Just imagine being that type of person. Because that’s the type of person you’re describing
  • 3
    @chrisalexthomas That’s some hell of a jump. I think the point was that the people pushing the name change has _not_ been the people it’s supposed to affect, but white people virtue signaling. If you can point to some influential Black engineers pushing this change, I’d be happy to stand corrected. But changing the name of a branch on repositories does not address any of the actual injustices rampant in society, and the people who feel that they can just do this one simple thing and call it a day are the worst kind of ally to a cause.

    The “anyone against this issue is clearly on the opposite side politically, despite evidence to the contrary” mentality only succeeds in polarizing. Feeling like changing Github repo branch names is an empty social gesture devoid of actual good does not make someone the kind to laugh at someone else’s pain or death.
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    @chrisalexthomas Are you for real calling people facists now?

    Hahaha
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    I'm not taking part in this conversation, which is obviously not going anywhere.

    Just to point an example of the ridiculous "hypocrisy" here, which I personaly deem clear.

    Last July, GitHub suddenly decided to abide by the "US law", which was in effect since Trump's violation of an international agreement in 2018, and "restrict" Iranians' accounts. This restriction included blocking users access to their own repos, based on their "nationality". To be more precise, they literally had been tracking people and flagging them. And their mechanism for when "your account has been flagged in error", is to file an appeal, to prove you're not Iranian, including a "government-issued photo identification (ID) from the country where you usually reside or live" and also a "selfie".

    No warnings beforehand. No protests afterwards.
  • 2
    Imo, this is, and is a consequence of, a "systematic exploitation of the discrepancy of power from a powerful group towards a weaker group", thus "racist" by @chrisalexthomas 's definition.

    You might even never heard of this. And you probably never hear many other examples like this. They won't make headlines.

    Why this matters here? Briefly: Political action (like any other other kind of "action") is possible only when there is a capacity (power, awareness, unity, cooperation...), and contrary to what you might think, this capacity *is limited*. What this apparent hypocrisy is doing, is actually diverting this capacity to a counterfeit "action", not only to dodge the original responsibility, but also to consume that capacity, exactly in line with the oppressive power, and make the effective actions impossible.

    So, in my opinion, people who are promoting/satisfied by these meaningless and hypocritical "actions", are actually the ones on the same table with Fascists.
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    THEY WON DUDES, RACISM IS NO MORE

    So fucking annoying...
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    @chrisalexthomas , nope, never though "master" and "slave" in racist context. "Master" is something that has control over the "slave" and that's it. Sometimes master can be some super-nazi, sometimes it's AMBA AXI bus controller. "Slaves" come in all sorts of shape and form, color and signaling. Person or hardware.

    I think there's a personal problem if word "master" makes you immediately think about black people and feel the pain of the world. It's already sometimes difficult to talk when you have to be careful not to give some social media guy an excuse to get offended (on behalf of someone else)...
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    @thatDude sorry, but I just don’t care about this anymore. Fight all you want, it’s ultimately a waste of your energy and mine. So I’m gonna cut my losses. You can grow and learn, or resist and be steamrolled. I ultimately don’t care. I tried my best to explain it to you. But you can’t force a stubborn horse to drink water. Have a fun life getting steamrolled :)
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    @AmyShackles "the best way to beat the opposition is to control it."

    fascists usually rely on co-opting and leading any group or movement that might threaten them.
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    @chrisalexthomas I think whats happening is obvious: theres actually a lot of people who want *serious and significant* police reform, you might even call it "sweeping" reform, and most of then are moderate/center.

    The problem is we currently live in a hyperpolarized environment and how that actually works goes something like: the further either side pulls from the other, the more any one in the middle will appear to be on the opposition, making them appear larger. this necessitates a spiral of more extreme tactics and thinking that acts as a divider of the middle and further polarizes.

    mlk figured this out, and its why he succeeded while malcolm x struggled to gain traction.

    you dont have a racism problem.

    you have an optics problem.

    respectability politics DO in fact work. use them.

    thats just my nickles worth, personally I dont agree with hurting people over their opinions or for something silly like wearing a hat.
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    Well...It's nice to see that someone is still blue eyed and so naive that they believe by changing ordinary every day words they will change the world. I guess every generation needs their group of people who think they are going to be steamrolling forward with their ideas.
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    @thatDude thats exactly the problem I have with most movements today. No one takes the time to convince others of anything. And if they fail to convince someone they just demand to be believed..."or else".

    I resent the implication that "if you're not with us, you're against us...and we will destroy you."

    The very idea of treating someone like that or giving them such an ultimatum fills me with pure unadulterated disgust.

    Demands are a fairly effective political bludgeon but at some point everyone just goes deaf from the noise and it gets all so tiresome.
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    War still going
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    @chrisalexthomas Well, just had a vacation so decided not to reply. But, here I am again.

    Oh no, you still haven't replied to the religious context thing. (correct me if I'm wrong but otherwise we wouldn't be here I think). Context is everything here. I actually find it nearly funny how everyone supporting this change is pretty much confirming that the word master is apparently bad, because why would one want to change it otherwise? So, let's ask MasterCard to rename, let's ask Dutch teachers to not call themselves 'meester' anymore, let's ask people being very good as something to not call themselves masters anymore.
    Does that sounds ridiculous? Of course, because the contexts are entirely different.

    Also, I did some more digging into the black/whitelist thing. This because Linux is going to rename stuff as well in the context of renaming words that have nothing to do with racism in its used context in the Linux kernel.

    As far as I can see, the black in blacklist originates from the color at night in combination with 'things/acts' that cannot see the light of day (crimes and such). This has zero to do with race, just with a color.
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    @linuxxx as already explained, not all uses of the word master imply a slave. Those that do as will have to work to get them to be dropped, those that don’t, won’t have any problems.

    If you missed that the first time, then it probably got buried in the blizzard of text messages. But that’s my view on the matter
  • 0
    @Wisecrack I’ve spent hours laying out the reasoning not to have it all pushed aside and the person repeats themself without ever seemingly trying to understand what I’ve said.

    It’s like a never ending circle, you get asked a question, you answer it with a significant amount of information. The person says “what about...” and then you answer that, then after a while you can clearly see the other person isn’t interested in listening or understanding, they’ve made their decision before you even started.

    So at the end, why bother? It just seems like these people want to waste your time without any intention of understanding why things are happening. They just want to scream and shout into the void about something they have no control over and can’t seemingly bring themselves together and act like adults and think about anybody else other than themselves.

    So yeah, fuck it, evolve or die. Let’s try that method instead. I’m done wasting time on these idiots
  • 0
    @chrisalexthomas you mostly just described yourself.
  • 0
    @eval sure buddy, I am already onboard with the plan, that’s no surprise and no secret. It’s you bunch of childish crybabies which have your panties in a bunch. Go fork the software and make your own github or gitlab if your delicate sensitivities are too upset by renaming a branch.

    Adults will just get on with life
  • 0
    @eval I understood everything you said. And then I also said that the world is more complicated and difficult than your overly simplistic world view would like it to be.

    So I’ve not “not listened” or “ignored” what you had to say, quite the opposite. I listened.

    Then I threw your opinion in the trash, because it’s not a valid world view that incorporates many other people other than yourself.
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    Next they'll tell you hard drives are bad because of the whole master/slave thing
  • 1
    @rutee07 your time to shine. Drive something hard up those snowflakes :)
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    @chrisalexthomas I think part of the obstacle to communication here is the implicit assumption that reasoning and being reasonable automatically means that given enough time the person must agree. Agreement isn't a formality following debate. Its a conclusion that follows from causes.

    What if the reasons behind being reasonable, aren't convincing to someone?

    Does it really matter? Is it worth seemingly getting upset over?

    I dont like the change, frankly I think its stupid, a meaningless symbolic gesture so they dont have to do anything real, not that I agree with that either, but who am I. More importantly and worse still its a nuisance and an inconvenience in an industry that has literally nothing to do with the political problems at hand. In otherwords, like most things done in pllitics, its bullshit.

    Obviosly I dont mean this as an attack on you or some sort of anti-xyz screed.

    I think however you were right about one thing: we dont really get a say in the matter.
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    and once again, I cant type for shit on my tiny keyboard.

    Anyway, take it with a grain of salt if you feel assaulted. A lot of us here are just tired of the cultural colonization, the general insertion of politics and idealogy, well meaning or not, into an industry where many already have to deal with enough meaningless shallow bullshit on a daily basis.

    what I would do is reprimand microsoft in a tweet or something and then boycott them for virtue signalling while not actually doing anything.

    sadly Id do the same but bill gates wont answer my admittedly rambling and threatening letters about the italian hooker and five pounds of cocaine he owes me, a cause it would seem doesnt inspire enthusiasm in anyone else.

    wheres MY justice?
  • 3
    @chrisalexthomas I guess it got burried then, can't recall that from you.

    I won't reply to you on this thread anymore since it seems that you find me and some others on here a bunch of cry babies and hinted towards us being sided with fascists or something and being made out for this while trying my best to explain my stanc on this is outright bullshit.

    And yes, I'll probably make a fork with the changed wording changed back since this supports my pov on this matter.
  • 1
    @TheAwesome98 already in motion. πŸ™„
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