😶😶😶

Why would they want to change it to something that means literally the same?

It's like changing the word "Killed" to "Life ender". Still means the same.

I'm my personal opinion they should not change it, GitHub should stay as a separate thing.

If we had to change everything just because it triggers some people, we would have to change lots and lots of naming on computers.

Linus sits when he pisses

Fucking cuck

Well....it’s about time someone did it.

Well, blocklist indeed is more precise. But passlist and allowlist sound odd to me (not a native English speaker though).

@Oktokolo native English speaker and it sounds weird as shit to me too lol

Someone in here got triggered and downvoted @Stuxnet comment and my comment.

@Bybit260 the weaklings are everywhere. Tragic

I hope the day come, when all SJW understand that words are not racists.

How do you use the words and context that can be racists.

Anyway ...

I want 2014 torvalds back

@Bybit260 because changing it achieves multiple things.

And for context, I am white and live in Sweden where these problems are very small compared to some other countries.

For many its mere words, for others its a constant reminder that they can be killed if the go to the bank to deposit their paycheck just because the teller called the cops and the wrong type arrived.

Secondly, the very act of changing apparently gets more people to be involved and discuss the underlying problem than news if people getting shot by the police or hunted down like an animal and the judge then consider the killing was “self defense”, when the killers had guns, just because the victim had tried to take a gun from one if them after they started shooting.

The sad truth is that most people that are not triggered by the words just cannot imagine the reality for those that is.

Yes I also will have to get used to the new wording, but the benefits for those affected far exceeds my possible discomfort of having to relearn that its more than worth it.

And hey, we’re in a business where your constantly relearning and changing things anyway :)

Its nice that there are extra benefits to this process :)

But that might just be my opinion.

The , I still believe that the word master by it self should be considered in the context of “skilled” or “teacher” since that context is far older, but if not, its still a small price for the gain of those that cannot go by their daily life without having to be scared.

@Voxera my first comment is probably hidden at this point from people downvoting it, so let's do it again lol

@Stuxnet opinions are never wrong ;)

They might be unpopular or distasteful but since an opinion never claims to be a truth they cannot be “wrong” :)

Thats why I choose the word opinion.

I do not claim to be right, just expressing how I see it.

And I leave it up to the reader to make their own opinions.

@Voxera The topic is complicated to explain with plain words, you need to experience it yourself.

What you said also applies to other races, "it's a constant reminder that they can be killed", I would bet 100 dollars that if you come to Texas (Where I live), and walk through a black neighborhood you can either get harassed or get your stuff taken.

I know a girl, that was walking through a black neighborhood at 7 PM and got beaten and then they took their stuff. So there is an example of the common stereotype.

Also, they are pretty fucking racist, they think they can say whatever the fuck they want without consequences. Just because they are black.

Also, I don't agree with what police do to black people. Some of the stuff they do are inhumane.

I'm not implying that all black people are like that, I have black friends that have very good manners. But some people like thieves or drug dealers ruin the game for everyone.

@pxeger in this I agree.

Its not the word master in master/slave that is the bad one.

And changing master/slave to something else is actually semantically good.

As used in computers, the slave takes over if the master dies, something that never (or very rarely) happened with a real slave, they would just get sold.

So master/slave does not really describe the intended behavior to begin with ;)

@Voxera that's two incorrect statements from you then lol

They say third time's the charm so maybe the next one that comes from you will be correct 😂

But you're not wrong, for the most part. Some opinions are most definitely wrong.

@Voxera, the list goes on. But any race is perfect.
But what triggers me is the reason that they are changing standard words.

Changing the words just highlights how fucked up this world is, it won't make a difference.

Some people want to make a difference, like some black dudes that are very smart, and do something to get a higher education. Thus getting out of those horrible neighborhoods, and helping their future family get a higher status. But on the other side of the spectrum, you have the ones that sell drugs, make gangs, and fucking get killed by other gangs.

Who I respect are the black dudes that get a higher education, and don't expect the government to give them money or more privileges. And before anyone says that they are limited by schools, well let me tell you'll that I went to a high school in a black neighborhood. Those schools are on the same level as white neighborhood highschools. So I don't see the barrier that is stopping them from getting a higher education.

@Bybit260 exactly. I don't give a shit about the change, I give a shit about the reason why they're changing it.

They're giving into a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of people that are genuinely weak enough to be offended by common words. And it's just bullshit pandering.

Linus has become a fucking wimp.

@Bybit260 Sure, but that could be due to how they have been treated.

If you grow up constantly being oppressed you can end up hating the oppression. This does not excuse the use of violence but knowing the full history is a good start to try to fix the problem.

Thats why I never said black since it was not only black people but others to. I did say white and Sweden to emphasize that I never had to experience it my self.

And I have read the stories of Harlem and how dangerous it was (and maybe can be)

But it does not change that slavery was bad in a way that most can never really grasp unless you have been on the receiving side, and discrimination is similar.

In this case, changing words can bee seen as a hand reached out and an attempt to let history be just history.

It might not solve the problem but might get more to see it.

I do not know for sure, but I do know that the word slave has no historically good meaning.

@Voxera NONE of the black people TODAY in the US have been oppressed, and they're fucking better off than the people who stayed in Africa.

Also, the Asian immigrants had a similarly bad start: poverty and racial discrimination. But they made it because overall, they made (and continue to make) better choices.

@pxeger Necessity? How the fuck? I went to a black neighborhood high school. And I can tell you. The majority won't do shit to change that. Tell me, how the fuck they drop out of high school when the teacher will even give them 20+ points per test? It's so god damn easy to get a higher education, I can't stress that enough. It's not a necessity, its stupidity. Its the ignorance of not trying to get out of that rabbit hole.

@Fast-Nop Yeah, I think the same, how the fuck does an illegal immigrant and an Asian guy, more successful than a black dude.

@Voxera You have to see it to believe it. You should come sometime to the USA.

@pxeger If you are not from the USA, you won't understand it.

@pxeger Everything. I used to think like you. You need to see it to believe it.

@Bybit260 I think I’ll wait until after the pandemic.

@pxeger Everything. I used to think like you. You need to see it to believe it.

@pxeger Being here for a short time != seeing it lol

I never expected to see so many Kevin’s and Karen’s on DevRant. Might as well see Uncle Tom and Kanye West dropping some advice like “Slavery was a choice!”..

Half of y’all like this fooo over here

@pxeger Asian immigrants also had a bad start, but each generation did what they could to IMPROVE life for their children generation. You don't see that kind of long-term vision in black hoods, and you don't see it with the "white trash" class either.

Renaming CS terms won't do shit to change that.

@pxeger Asians from actual time period, succeed. They have it harder because they start from scratch. Illegal immigrants from Latin America live in better neighborhoods than Black. How? How? There are some that only have been here in the USA for less than 20 years.

Cloud lobby from big three cloud providers in 3..2..1..
Wait... they’re already there in cncf 😂

Looks like free cloud advertising to me.

@pxeger Fewer of them: they lacked community and had it even harder.
Arrival: they arrived already in the 19th century AND worked their way up. Way before civil rights stuff.
Slavery: doesn't matter after mid-19th century, and is no argument today.
Moving: everyone could have moved. Moving in from Asia was certainly more of a relocation than within the same fucking country.

But Asian moms don't waste the family's money to devour all shit until they weigh at least 400 pounds and instead use the money smarter, e.g. for education (even if not uni).

Also, the family doesn't accept children to be too lazy for school and instead hang around on the streets to become good-for-nothings.

And they don't have as many single moms who let themselves knock up by a useless but oh-so-manly thug when they were 16 and the thug went into prison two years later.

All these self-destructive behaviours are as rampant in black hoods as with "white trash", and the outcome is the same in both groups.

@pxeger Also because it seems you won't understand.

@pxeger Its like fucking 5 of us trying to make you understand. We live in the USA, we know what we are talking about, and you still refuse to understand. You are defending a point of a pure assumption.

@Frederick The Swedish model of integration with the resulting crime rates just proves that you can't throw tax money at the problem.

I don't necessarily mind the changes, some of these were already used in many technologies before and it barely matters if you give me a file named blacklist.txt or denylist.txt, or if my database spins up slaves or replicas.

I do mind that the change is marked "more inclusive" when in reality there wasn't anything exclusive about master/slave and blacklist/whitelist to begin with.

who did it exclude? you used the word "inclusive" so that implies someone was excluded... how do you exclude someone from technical terminology? Are you trying to tell me that every black programmer flinched everytime they read the word "blacklist" or "slave"? or that every white programmer celebrated the words "whitelist" or "master"?

I've been in this field for over a decade and not once have I considered these to be exclusive in any way to anyone. People that can't stop separating their race or gender from the real world are highly insecure and damaged to begin with and this isn't the solution

I remember when I first learned the terms blacklist/whitelist I was confused a little because I wondered what have colours have to do at all with lists, and why those colours specifically. If we are using colours, I thought it would make more sense calling them redlist/greenlist. But that's it, I would change them just for clarity, not because of racism. Seeing racism in those words seems so far-fetched.

@pxeger you change something widely used even to please one person? This is just a prelude to minority tyranny.

@pxeger your opinion holds no weight since you are an armchair antiracist, parroting same old tired arguments justify a terrible culture on poverty abd systemic racism bullshit.

I in general don't have problem with this changes because of inclusiveness. Don't really care as I come from Slovakia where we did not have black slaves. (if anything else we've been oppressed for a very long time, but no one here cares anymore)

However from point of automation this a little bit terrifies me.
So now we will need to change thousands of scripts that rely on master/slave and whitelist/blacklist? What about software/automation we have no control of. Will we be locked out of new linux kernels, distributions, databases, clustering soft?
I've seen already used like 5 different versions for whitelist/blacklist alone and now the same is happening for master/slave.
So about how many different options will we need to think when writing our automation.

/sigh

Well, guess positive is that it might be more work for system admins/automation people, which might even bring some money.

Why is the world so sensitive. I follow the movement but this is not necessary.

@Voxera Slavery isn’t the same everywhere.

The sex trade in the Philippines involves the family selling a woman into service and she doesn’t have a choice to leave. In India there are brick factories where the workers join and the employer charges them money for living expenses which make it nearly impossible for a worker to repay the employer. Prisoners in the USA and China are often forced to do farming and forestry work. Temporary foreign workers in Canada are brought to work in agriculture and they aren’t paid much, they are away from family, they have few worker rights or advocates.

The common aspect about modern slavery is that nobody likes to use the terms associated with slavery. We are actually doing a disservice to people in slavery by trying to remove the concept from language. By removing it conceptually we are breaking people’s ability to understand and discuss it in meaningful ways.

@stefanjarina
I heared, that in Slovakia, racism targets Roma instead of blacks.

@Oktokolo you’ve heard, or actually learned about it a bit. As there is tons of organizations/governement funding that are helping them. They are receiving new houses/flats for free. Schools and lunches for free, money from government. So if they are somehow targetted, wouldn’t say its negative. So you’ve heard wrong. My daughter is in a class of cca 25 children out of which 20 are from roma community.

@stefanjarina Not that they'd show any gratitude for that. There's good reason why nobody likes them.

@stefanjarina
nice, that that problem is getting fixed.

@Oktokolo Nah, I wouldn't say that it is getting fixed, just that they are not targeted with racism per se.
Extremely high percentage of roma people just waste everything we throw at them unfortunately.
They got completely new flat for free, it is destroyed in 3 years. They received a completely new city block, completely destroyed in 30 years.
If they receive money from government (I've seen them receive 3x the pay of cashier) and they put it to gambling and to alcohol/drugs.
They send children to school, but often they do not want to learn at all.

So no, problem is not getting fixed, bot Slovak people are out of ideas what to do. There are programs to integrate them, but if they don't want to, you can throw in billions and they go to waste.

Thus I strongly disagree with "racism targeted at roma people" notion as that is simply not true.
If so, by individuals, but that is everywhere.

tf happened to linus

@irene Ayn Rand’s Anthem explains this quite nicely. George Orwell’s 1984, too. In both books, the governments ban words that allow any meaningful discussion of forbidden topics — specifically those that would undermine government control or allow individuality and self expression.

It’s not particularly surprising that Anthem has fallen out of favor and can get you accused of being a horrible person or a Nazi if you bring it up. I’m honestly surprised it hasn’t been banned from schools here in the states. Or maybe it has been since I last looked.

The world is becoming a pretty scary place. Why do humans seem to want this? It quite literally makes everything worse.

@Root Assuming that the average and below average folks follow trends decisively without much contemplation you always land on a tyrannical majority. When the majority holds an opinion even the people that have critical thinking skills will cave to the majority. That leaves a small powerless minority that understand what is good beyond the majority understanding. Popular opinion can’t define truth.

This was Socrates main issue with democracy. If you get a bunch of people on a ship and set sail do you want the informed seafarers making decisions or do you want a select few that are trained and experienced in making decisions about sailing? The common person sees a storm and turns sideways making the boat vulnerable to capsize and being run aground. The crew points the bow into the storm, drops the mains for stability and rides the storm out to sea where it’s safe.

@irene That's a misunderstanding of democracy. It's not about optimisation, but legitimation. The masses WILL initiate a change sooner or later if the elite screws them.

Democracy provides a systematic, orderly process for that so that no violent revolution is required. Such a revolution, no matter who wins, guarantees that those who win are well versed at violence, and they won't turn into lambs just because the revolution is over.

@irene That is my issue with democracy as well. Uninformed and stupid people’s votes count for just as much as those who understand the full implications of what is going on.

However, I don’t know of a solution because corruption is always part of the equation. If you require passing a test in order to vote, who grades the tests? Who writes the test? Who proctors the test? How do you handle leaked tests? Who watches to makes sure these people aren’t corrupt? And who watches the watchmen? Like cancer, corruption spreads, and it destroys everything it touches.

On a related note, the best and fastest way to make things worse is to allow as many people as possible to vote. This dilutes the average quality as the vast majority of people have no idea and no cares about what is going on. So whichever candidates offer the most handouts or the best-sounding promises tend to win, and not on merit.

@Root What about separatism? Create an island of the smartest smarty pants.

@irene And who will do the dirty/dumb work then?

@irene That’s happened before. The best and the brightest China had to offer founded modern day Japan.

@Root Savage!

@Fast-Nop The smart people are smart enough to import stupidity and export it when it becomes a liability.

@Frederick I will call it "The Democratic Republic of Japanigascar"