20
AleCx04
16d

Internships are fucking bullshit and if more senior developers were to take the role of an actual mentor to coach juniors properly then the state of software engineering would be better.

Some people can be let down easy in terms of "this is not for you bruh", others can be built. I know that social interactions are not common for a lot of the morons in here, but being polite and kind is relatively simple if you know what you are doing. Being a dickhead != "royal levels of expertise" and if we were to coach more people into proper development practices then software would not be in such a shitty state.

For an environment that thrives in cooperation I find it hard to believe that we are still subjecting new people to the field to what can be considered slavery with little to actual no monetary compensation.

I removed many of the requirements for the application to a software developer job where I am at (I am the boss, I get to do shit like that) and my fight with HR was "I would rather someone fresh from college that I can coach properly than some dickhead with years on the field that won't listen to anything else than their own words"

Sure it would be slow, sure it would be hard, nothing ever is that simple, but my idea is "train this mkfer, level the fuck out of him, let him be off to great shit rather than giving him to some dickhead that will treat him like shit on account of being a newbie"

And yes, I do know how and what can go bad, I am going to have someone desinging shit in basic html/js/css with some php here and there not giving them the keys to every server I control. Thank you for your fucking concerns, I know what I am doing.

the experiment fails? GOOD more data for me.

Plus, you learn more when you teach others.

Comments
  • 4
    So I can only speak from my experience with interns from US educational systems.

    I agree, people should be nice.

    But as far as 'slavery' and compensation goes ... I would be VERY WARY if I were an intern demanding to be paid what they're worth to the company....

    I worked with interns at another company and nobody brought interns on because they were productive / got more done with interns, the company did it to be part of the community and etc.

    In every case I could have done my job and the interns in half the time if I wasn't dealing with the interns... none was ever around long enough to actually do work that the company would profit from (that couldn't be faster / better by others).

    I certainly worked with interns who felt that they were underpaid, that was never the case. I don't doubt there are some gifted folks who maybe could be super productive interns, but I think those are very rare / never met one...
  • 2
    Good post mate.

    I'd like to give another perspective to this that the said intern should be coachable.

    A lot of interns are often in "college" attitude and it takes a lot of efforts to get them into professional mindset.

    While a lot of us senior folks are already surrounded by ton of problems to solve. Putting in that much of extra efforts will drain us out further effecting their productivity.

    And management doesn't care about time invested in interns. They only look at output.

    Hence, senior folks often gets pissed off and try to avoid junior folks.

    Ofc not all are good and not all are bad which is applicable to both sides of the table.

    I personally avoid juniors folks at work if I have to mentor them.

    I proactively take requests on LinkedIn because someone who is putting in efforts to learn is better than someone who does it for a salary taking things for granted. And salary is one and not the only parameter here.
  • 7
    Train them good?? You fucking moron! They'll just steal our jobs!! We can't be having that!!!

    /sarcasm << just so we are clear on this

    I totally fucking agreeeeee!!!!
    Train them young, teach them well? Let them fly off and salvage someone else's mess. This is the way! 🍻
  • 1
    This is one of the best rants I’ve ever read! Im tired of juniors being laughed at just bc they don’t know best practices. They should be given the opportunity to learn and live to their potential, not be dragged down by snobby assholes who want to feel superior and forgot that they didn’t know best practices at one point
  • 1
    Except being a good engineer does not mean being a good teacher.
  • 1
    Train someone and being nice are two separate things.
    Military training isn’t nice and they are able to produce constant good soldiers for centuries.
    If we want software soldiers we should stop being nice or it will stay as it is cause morons won’t learn just by saying 100th times to do it other way.

    I can repeat myself at most 3 times.
    3rd time I’m already pissed cause I see I waste my time.
  • 1
    @vane totally agree, I went even further, I had patience and invested more time than needed to teach the intern basic of basics, but when intern just don't give a fuck, what can you do.

    You can be nice and waste your time, that's what I did. I did not choose interns, I just got one to mentor. Would like to not to do it again if intern has a dickhead-zero-fucks-given attitude.
  • 2
    @vane @devJs That was captured in my rant with the "others can be built"

    I don't believe that this is for everyone, but I also don't think we need to baby talk interns or tolerate crap behavior.
  • 0
    @iiii honestly bud that seems like a case by case sort of personal problem.

    I go by the idea that if you understand something well enough you can learn the necessary communication skills to teach it.

    Funny enough, my best teachers were amazing engineers, the worst ones were shit academic only type.
  • 0
    @N00bPancakes I see your point, but what about other trades etc that make money of the bat? vehicle technicians in my city BANK it man, amd they get paid from day 1, so do a lot of more people in many institutions, for different jobs, why have we established that the only people that need to prove themselves are in software?
  • 1
    @F1973 I see what you are saying bro, definitely.

    I would at that point just blame management. Previous manager before I took the role was very much for training sessions between juniors and seniors or just training overall. I know such behavior is hard to come by, but definitely real.
  • 0
    @AleCx04 true. It's a two way street.
  • 1
    Lol that reminds me in one of the previous company I worked at, some entitled senior with a terrible attitude asked for interns.

    Anyways the day the interns arrived, they had no computer and no resources to start working. When they asked the senior for help, he told them they had to phone him for questions during specific work hours (like between 1PM and 3PM) and he would not even answer half the time. The interns would of course not learn anything, poors dudes.

    Of course some non-shitty engineers came to the rescue and took them under their wings after a month of bullshit.

    I don't know as of this day why they still employ this guy. For fuck sake, he works on a Windows XP PC, refuse to work with others, does not test his code, which breaks, does 3k LoC commits and pull requests and does not document anything. If you ask him for help or doc on some design he made to understand it better, he will tell you you suck and to go away.
  • 0
    @AleCx04 but what choice you have when hiring or firing is mostly by HR ?
    When HR people will say to you keep him, give him a chance, he’s cool guy.
    The system is broken.
  • 0
    @AleCx04 exactly, you have to learn a teaching skill in addition to your main skill. Just having the main skill is not enough to teach it.
  • 0
    @iiii its obvious. My position is that it is doable and not hard, at least not for me. To each their own tho.
  • 0
    @AleCx04

    I mean other trades you very much make not much money to start ... and vehicle repair, I assume you can do the job to some extent on your own once you start.

    I really don't think software is much of an outlier.
  • 0
    @N00bPancakes starting salary for a vehicle tech where I am at is 40k a year, for a dev is 38k. I thus disagree, but see your point.
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