Rust.

I kinda disagree. Shopify adopted it as one of the supported languages to ship packages in. I'm assuming this will go on with other platforms as well.

Also, I've read many articles on why people love it, and it seems like most devs can overcome syntactical problems if it results in better performance.

I mean. I do think the hype is overkill. But there is something to be said about the concepts and I'm not sure if that will be rust or the concepts flowing to other languages.

i hope the hype will pass. It's annoying me that everybody is having a pissing contest on which language is better, instead of just writing fucking software.

C and Python is all we need. F everything in between

The trend will pass

The language will stay

I don't care either way

@retoor You don't F Java. Java F's you!!

Keep hoping I guess

@Sid2006 Java with his small javac

@retoor we significantly reduced the size of our embedded code base going from C to C++. A lot less duplicated code.

@retoor You mean C, C# and Lua

@Demolishun yh, i believe that, List, Vector and Map saves a huge amount of code. In C i wrote my own Dict(Map) and List that I reuse. But it's still not as powerful since they both only work with strings. With c++ Map you can Map everything. I just like C, typing a lot and knowing exactly what the source does. C++ compiles a bit slow on my netbook where I work on private. Once used boost, took minutes to compile. Sick. Do you use boost?

@retoor we use boost for embedded Linux stuff (arm). We do not use anything dynamic for our embedded chips however (TI). We have a fixed memory map and things cannot be allocated on the fly. So that limits a lot of what we can used.

@999pingGG Lua is amazing concept. I investigated how to implement, beats python. But arrays start from 1? Every language wants to do one thing different. Was just working with C# on linux. Works great. According to conninical C# runs 25% or so faster on linux than windows and less memory usage

@Demolishun if things can't be created on fly, how to use a new String object? Or everything is fine if you declare on start? Memory doesn't get managed?

@retoor I believe String manages dynamic memory to be able to change. So we wouldn't use that.

@Demolishun always static char[] is used for strings?

Is Rust really any more than a niche language that's just talked about a lot though?

I see lots of Devs using it for fun, but very few places using it in anger in production. Only place I've really seen it shine is in embedded applications as a replacement for C.

Crappy syntax 🤮🤮

@helnux Syntax makes up for the performance Rust provides.

I'm not a Rust developer myself but I have read both sides of the equation.

@Sid2006 that's not an excuse, it could transpile before compiling right? If we're making the syntax hard because performance, let's just go back to c++ and learn to freaking manage memory

@AlmondSauce apprently many famous codebases integrated some rust stuff, like Linux kernel afaik and Firefox

I'm afraid it's going to stay

Personally I think a lot of ideas from rust will become mainstream, but I doubt that rust will survive long term.

New languages are always great because they make us question old ideas, every time I try one I realize perhaps we've been mindlessly accepting bad things in old langauges.

But for me - I still feel no need to learn Rust for my webserver projects.

When I ask myself "Do I actually have any problems with sever performance or memory-efficiency that makes it justified to learn a new language?" and for me the answer is no.

Not gonna bother anyone else, but still, personally no need.

To add to my previous post: I am quite happy Rust has come along to challenge C++ and if I'd ever write something specific that I'd previously consider C++ for - I might try Rust the next time.

@retoor Agreed but someone invented C++ so I have to do Rust as a counter

@Sid2006 I have to disagree. They made the syntax bad on purpose.
Time is money and spending time just to accommodate to the syntax isn't worth it.
I would have almost same performance with golang and definitely better performance with C or C++ with human readable syntax

I generally write python js go kotlin and swift almost everyday. They almost have pretty much same syntax. Including Rust will increase the mental workload and definitely affect the productivity.

@jiraTicket you are pragmatic. As Theo said, don't use rust for the sake of using it. Only use it when you need. And 99% you wouldn't need it just to run a server.
There are simpler things out there that can handle it must of time. Go I.e

1) you clearly dont work in web3

2) when discord launched and they had like 500 million users their backend got fucked and devs were scared for life on how to scale it. The API requests and performance was getting gangfucked. Trillions of requests. Trillions of messages. They tried using Cassandra DB. It worked until it didnt. They tried switching to Golang and lots of other high performance tech. All of it worked until it didnt. Then discord dev team decided to code their own shit from scratch using Rust because it was on a very low level language, which has solved their scaling and high performance problem that can today handle millions and billions of users and trillions of requests to process. Apparently Rust is that powerful

(I personally dont like low level languages. So I'll pass on Rust as well. But just because some people dont like it doesnt make it not good)

@b2plane

1. heard the discord story from Theo whom at that time was working at discord. And he still doesn't recommend to start with Rust unless you absolutely need it

2. Discord problem was with the DB, they switched from Cassandra to Scylla, so I don't know what go has to do with that in the first place .

3. How many products or company are the size of discord? A very few.

@helnux what in the actual fuck are you talking about. The syntax is nice, and it's usability outstanding. I'm spending almost the same time in wroting stuff in rust, than with other languages.

@thebiochemic the syntax sucks ass. You'll literally the first person ever to claim otherwise. Even the hardcore rust contributors have acknowledged it

Why on earth use the pipe | where you could simply use , or parenthesis? What language uses that ? Just to look different and confusing?

The code looks horrible.

@helnux bruh, im tired of you guys complaining about the syntax of that language. If you cannot write concise code in rust, you probably cannot write clean code in any language.

the code you have shown is horrible in multiple regards because whoever wrote it ignored basic standards. It would look shit in other languages like typescript too. I mean just look at the excessive amount of await/async.

It's like this mentality of having "goto" in a language and having this need of using it everywhere because it's cool, rather than using a language like a normal person.

that's exactly what i'm saying in the very beginning. So as i say: i hope the hype will pass, so shitheads like you get lost, and the people stay, who actually can write code.

@thebiochemic lol I wouldn't even argue with you about the quality of my code after single handledy build my own hosting platform with python/go/ts/terraform and some C++

I have written my own hand drivers in x86 assembly

Yiu can use slur as much as you can but it's obviously clear at this which one of us is shitier coder

A language with arrow function annotation and using pipe and :: notation and also the dot is just shitty

All modern languages converge in terms of syntax
All of them even C.

Your Rust is just some garbage shitty thing .

@thebiochemic and don't worry. If the code is open source I'll definitely whenever I manage to get some free time to fork it and fix by removing that shitty as syntax.

Motherfucker I personally started contributing to Fuschia OS but had to give up because I wouldn't sacrifice my sanity py participating to the intellectual downgrade of writing ugly ass code

I'd rather write PHP than write shitty ass Rust

@helnux we got it you don’t like the language to a point that you feel entitled to insult everyone else. Just take your pills man, no one forces you to write Rust

@thebiochemic wait, you an SAP Guy ? 😂😂 Your not even a serious dev. Someone listing bash as skill on devrant?
You have to tell us that your working on Rust
You sound like the type of dev I never recruit. Few skill set but long ass text brick resume .

You're the type that will list JSON or git as a skill on their CV

@Tounai I didn't insult anybody
The dude insulted me first and I gave him the same treatment.

Read the thread

@helnux read it again and I repeat : take your pills

@Tounai just because you need pill doesn't mean I need too

@Tounai bio says "anything my manager wants me to do"
Good boy, I guess manager also forces you to write shitty things

Something I don't know since I own and run my business 😂😂😂😂😂

Did someone say pills? Sharing is caring.

I just did read a Rust repo and damn, my first stroke. If I had spent effort to learn such syntax I would defend it to the grave too. It probably feels very creative writing it.

@thebiochemic started this war. Fucking love it

@retoor here you go

@retoor you might need to wash your eyes afterwards

@helnux

> Something I don't know since I own and run my business

reads exactly like:

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid.

@helnux &' a str. That last statement is value had my own language as accident, automatically. Last ; missing, you could do that in php too but the fuck why. That's what I meant, writing it must feel f-ing creative. I saw worse. Also this:
pub fn pony() -> Self {
self
}
Why the f an uppercase Self. Ah fuck

@kiki exactly. Beautiful

@retoor Syntax is something you get along with quickly once you start using a language. You can say it’s too verbose but that’s the flaw with many modern languages. Personally, I just find interesting the fact that Rust provides a good level of safety without compromises on speed

@helnux Master of puppets, I'm pulling your strings
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams
Blinded by me, you can't see a thing
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master, master
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master, master

@Tounai 2/10. But nice try

@retoor lmao he didn’t catch the navy seal copypasta reference
Lemme predict his response to this comment: “yeah I totally got the reference, I was just trolling 🤡”

@helnux Holy crap you're pathetic. You wanna learn Rust fine learn it, shut the hell up otherwise.

Boohoo mommy look these people made tougher syntax boohoo.

@helnux if you don’t take your pills we will call your doctor and you will go back to the asylum

@Sid2006 a crappy PHP dev telling me to learn Rust 😂😂😂😂
How ironic . Your videos are unbelievably embarrassing

@Sid2006 the thing is, the syntax is not tough. You dont need to use lifetimes barely at all, because they are inferred. Same with types. And because of how type inference works you still always know exactly what a variable contains.

@helnux There is a reason why &str is considered unowned and String is. But obviously if you don't actually use the language properly, you couldn't know.

The one example where you open the file, you could easily leave out half of the types and use match instead, making it immensely more readable. Again, if you have no idea, you couldn't know that.

The "longest" example is not too bad, ot just uses lifetimes, and even then: it is also bad, because you literally ignore the case, where they are the same length, you'd do exactly what to avoid in rust. And also, what speaks against literally just doing it inline, instead of making a function out of it, why not just use a match? you most likely would use it in some branch structure anyways.

@helnux To the other thing:
Seeing you insulting people directly just shows, that you have not a single clue about how to write good code.

And only because i work with stuff, you don't like, doesn't mean i like that either. Also i'm glad you wouldn't hire me. I wouldn't work with someone as bitter and pathetic as you anyways.

As a final word, and i'm repeating myself for the third time now, but to make it extra clear:

Piss off.

@thebiochemic then you're completely missing the point. Understanding rust is no problem. The whole point is about syntax and Lexic

Why the :: accessor?
Why the | notation in closure?
Why the single ' which is generally used for char or string

The whole critism of Rust being ugly is because of the semantics. It's ugly and interestingly lot of decent respected devs agree on that

Rust could have a nice syntax and still keep it's pros, any person that have experience creating language knows that
I will just quote wadler

@Sid2006 someone like you that write apps easily hackable with SQL injection can't lecture me about writing code. Look at this code.
Not only you don't sanitize input before putting them in raw SQL query but overall the code looks like it's written by a noob dev

@helnux

the single ' is a lifetime, again. You need to specify it, if you want to make sure, that the variables life long enough. but in a lot of cases, especially when only reading it, you'll never need this. A &str will be absolutely enough. And as i already mentioned, you can just avoid that by using String.

the :: accessor is the same as in C++, which is fine, because at the end of the day rust is a systems language. It arguably makes it more readable, because you know see directly, if it's a Function or a Method. the :: symbol before generic parameters is redundant tho, i agree on that one.

and i agree, I don't understand, why the | is such a big deal for you in closures, it's definitely better than typing in a keyword. Also you can type in move/copy before it to say what is going on in this closure with captured data. Just makes it more clear that it is a closure and not a tuple or something. if you really don't like them, you could also just create an inline fn and use this.

@helnux

Sorry, but you're literally just reinforcing the point of you not knowing a lot about this language at this point.

So again i ask you to just fuck off.

@helnux instead of listing silly points of how to shit it is, why not try and make your own language then, with your oh so great knowledge about everything apparently

@thebiochemic let’s be honest on one thing : the lifetime syntax is kind of odd but it’s the only language that has this feature so it’s probably why it feels strange

@thebiochemic i already mentioned it. I'll definitely fork it and make it better. Either by writing something that compiles down to Rust or directly with Rust initial O'Caml compiler. Take a screenshot and not it.

It's has shitty syntax and semantics, which is factually true. You can keep claiming I don't know or I don't understand but you definitely can't objectively say otherwise

@helnux don't give up!

@helnux well so far you haven't said anything that makes it look like you have a plan. So yes go ahead, and make something cool, instead of insulting people and talking nonsense.

C is still cooler than rust right?

@thebiochemic I might not have a specific roadmap yet but I know exactly what I need to and how to do it.
You seem surprised that insult you back after you initially insulted me ? How dare I

@helnux You do realize starting a YouTube tutorials channel means I take 10+ cowards like you for breakfast?

You can criticize my code all you want from the basement you live in, hiding behind anonymity, it doesn't faze me the slightest.

gg ez izi pizi noob.

@helnux

@ostream look you have competition now, in terms of being an insufferable asshole on the internet.

Maybe you two should go on a date or something, you two are meant for each other.

@helnux most ORMs have SQL injection protections integrated in them but that’s something you’ll discover when you start coding in real life. You’re just an unfunny troll and I would be surprised if you are anything else than a random student who think he is doing computer science, but sorry bro, not yet.

@Tounai ORM ? Dafuq you talking about ?
Rule of thumb that you might have never learn:
NEVER EVER TRUST ANY INPUT THAT REACHES YOUR ENDPOINT. Make sure it's sanitized and escaped before sending it to the ORM or using it in SQL queries

You are making yourself look a like a dumb fool

@Tounai where did he use any ORM ?
If you cant read code amma grab a screenshot of his code for you

@helnux Moron

@helnux feel free to share your GitHub if you feel so confident

@ostream what's your opinion regarding this thread?

@Tounai whose the moron now ? This is from the same documentation. First rule any new dev learns
Why did you crop it from the doc ?
You would be fired if you were in my company. You low skilled SAP integrator

@helnux so what you escape your string manually you massive clown? This is not PHP code bro

@helnux Sid used prepared statements that you don't have to escape. The api is kinda same for every lang. Ive heard that Rust has a great ORM. Tounai is not the SAP guy, stay focused!

@Tounai PHP ? You meant that piece of shit language that your friend use everyday ?
Welcome to the real world. We escape input in an elegant way with Django and golang.

It's 2023 bitch

@Tounai @retoor

This is top tier entertainment lol.

But you may step aside, I can take this clown myself.

Hey @helnux, Go back to your mom's basement you basement dwelling clown bitch. And yeah, take my GitHub repository and choke on it.

Also, make sure to subscribe and leave a like on my videos, you clown!!

gg lol ez izi pizi ez lmao fr fr

@helnux use a DB library that does it on query you will see it’s amazing

@helnux will not reach the DB because you’re a student and you don’t code

@Sid2006 PHP guy welcome back 😂😂😂😂
The clown failed YouTuber that write PHP and unsecure code .

The irony.. PHP guy talking about Rust. I had a lot laugh checking your social medias.
And I can confirm, f2f , you wouldn't dare look at me in the eyes because you are exactly how and what I pictured you.

@Tounai Hey man, go easy on this guy @helnux, I have a feeling he's about to cry 😂😂😂😂

@Tounai a student that runs a business with 10+ dev hhhhh. I guess yeah am student since everyday I learn more things in life

@Sid2006 don't worry. Watching your YouTube will reminds me there are ton of miserable people out there being and living worse

@helnux you run no code, no business, no car, nothing

@helnux whoa whoa there big guy, the micropenis you wield has gotten hurt, I see.

YoU wOuLdNt dArE tO lOoK aT mE iN ThE EyEs.

Tough talk from a basement dweller who hides behind anonymity. I imagine you're a 19 year old Twitter user who thinks typing on a keyboard will ward off people.

I'm having fun, go on tell me how hurt you are, and how your 2-inch glory wand can disassemble peasants like us.

Go on.

@Tounai lol too bad for you

@helnux lol the guy has the guts to share his work publicly, you are just a moron who keeps saying shit. This is your personality as a boss of a company? Man, everyone would have left your “””company””” already if you were running a business. Stop saying shit, share some useful knowledge instead of trolling

@Tounai again, nice try 😂

@helnux you don’t know what 2nd degree means, isn’t it?

@Tounai I don't. Is it something your manager asked you to do ? 😂

@helnux you’re just a kid. Go back to the sandbox. I have some rust code to type

@helnux 🤣🤣 you checked my insta too wow. I live my life like an open book, I ain't got anything to hide.

I know you wouldn't visit my LinkedIn cuz you know you're way too big of a pussy to do that and you realize LinkedIn will tell me who visited my profile.

But I get why you chose Instagram, need that anonymity am I right??

Keep talking all day long big guy, I can do this all day.

@kiki, mention Rust and people get unhinged. lol

@Demolishun Because idiots can't wait to shit on anything new that's trying to, you know, change the norms a little.

I'm not a Rust dev myself and yet I have the objectivity to look at it from a technical standpoint. I realise everything in life has pros and cons and nothing will be perfect.

Dumbasses like @helnux think just mindless typing will make them sound or seem tough, it's quite the opposite.

@Sid2006 well people like you are liability to your organizations.
Btw I even have a full tree of all your relatives.
Have I had free time I'd easily social engineer my way into your life

"I have nothing to hide" ow waw 😂😂😂

@Sid2006 idiots ? Look at your code
Anything new ? Man you're using PHP . You aren't even supposed to talk about Rust or any modern or system programming language because that's not in your scope

@helnux how would you social engineer in someone's life? Becoming a window was her? Helping a relative that got stuck in washingmachine?

@retoor could be that too

@retoor honestly, C is still one of my favourites.

@thebiochemic mine too. It's so not boring. You have to stay sharp. All that freedom. Not for lazy people

@helnux i give you that, youre pretty good at gaslighting people.

But i'm not surprised. I have to deal with idiots like you from time to time on all sorts of occasions.

@thebiochemic @retoor lets talk about nextjs because i need to wait 30 more mins to create a new rant and i dont wanna wait

I just realized nextjs is both backend + frontend type of framework.

How is coupling backend + frontend as a single nextjs app a good idea? What the fuck is this?

What if you have to create new replica sets of a backend because of high load pressure? What about load balancers?? WTF IS THIS

WHY DID NEXTJS THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA AND WHY DO SO MANY DEVS LOVE THIS IDEA AND GLORIFY NEXTJS? @helnux @Demolishun help

oh i would be so interested in the opinion of the devs of the company the guy is supposedly running. can you just invite them here aswell @helnux ?

@Demolishun were just having fun 👌

@retoor i agree, i like it. Easy to learn, yet a good challenge. Wrote smaller games with it back then. i think the library was allegro?

@b2plane since the lifetime of a js framework(version) I wouldn't use it as backend at all

Do you like Rust?

@thebiochemic hmm, easy to learn... It required me a shitload of practice and all brain capacity before I could write stable software. Now I'm almost not able to write u stable stuff

@thebiochemic No use try to get this guy out. His anonymity is the only thing protecting him. Also he's way too big of a pussy to do so.

Classic signs of an internet asshole @helnux:

1. Claiming to have a big buff natty body.
2. PHP bad.
3. Threatening others.
4. Claiming to run a $10 billion company with 25K+ employees.
5. Stalking on all social media platforms.

I may have gained a permanent fan today. I know I will forget this guy tomorrow, but I will live rent free in his mind from now on.

@retoor i dont like low level languages

@b2plane I was a hardcore nextJS lover but lately we came to the conclusion that it ain't worth it anymore. The SCR is overkill since it will now force you to run the app on a server (mad possibly give few bucks to Vercel every month)

@thebiochemic they are probably here, at least one or 2 of them

@b2plane Vercel has killed CRA. But with Dan lately quitting Meta I wish and hope he'll bring an alternative. Lot of people and companies are talking about moving to svelte, which is easier said than done

@helnux considering the low amount of ++ you have on your comments, i'm pretty sure they share the opinion of @Sid2006 of you being an asshole tho.

Nice try kiddo.

@helnux Don't mind me, I'm just making myself at home in your mind. I know I'm gonna live rent free in it.

Also, thanks for becoming my stalker from this point onwards.

@Sid2006 yes way to remind myself life could be worse

@helnux Ah yes, so generous of you. Now i know what celebs feel like. I feel great knowing that there is someone out there thinking about me.

I'll drink to that. Cheers.

@Sid2006 thinking about how low you are ? Absolutely mate. Count on me.
Santé

Based on upvotes @helnux crushed you guys on his own

@b2plane I can.
NextJS is an atrociously stupid idea. But look at the company behind it — it’s some venture capital’s bitch that cares more about pitching than their users and adopters. This is why they try to churn out MOAR features instead of fixing their crap. Look at their github issues. Last time I checked there was like 9k issues, a solid percentage of them unanswered for months.
NextJS isn’t made for you. It was never about users. It’s a desperate attempt to create new frontend status quo by making a shiny turd that should’ve made soyboys open wide. It’s all buzzword-driven BS marketing.

You don’t need SSR. Write landing pages in raw HTML, or use something like twig or nunjucks. You could use the kind of control raw HTML brings you for SEO. Then, write your app in whatever framework (or lack thereof) without SSR — it doesn’t need SEO, it’s behind an authwall.

Morons.

@ostream This is funny. Have my updoot.

@ostream enchanté sir 🙏

@We3D did you see this thread? Tagging you so you don't miss out! Oil on fire is appreciated

@retoor nope, the scroll, it's q lot of read already. I'll check it later =]

And this kids is the story of how @kiki made the most flamed post in devRant's history with one single word

I never understood why people are so offended when someone says what he/she doesn't like in a language or framework, what have you. like they are defending their own creation...

you either like it or not, who cares anyway ;). I mean you can spend all year and more speculating what will be here in 10 years or not, but the reality is that if the thing is popular and used ( or just js ) it will be here no matter how many haters it has ;}

@We3D i mean that's fine. I couldn't care less about that. But saying stuff, that just isn't true, or is highly subjective, but portraing this as truth, and trying to make developers, who actually use the language look like idiots is where i personally draw a line have a short fuse.
At this point it's getting personal.

Curse these people.

I wonder if there is a C++ to Rust transpiler...

@Demolishun yep :

https://github.com/mame/quine-relay

it has to go through some other langs before that, but it's possible ;}

also that's my fav piece of software so far =]

I mean if you can write such a thing, you can be shy no more...

@We3D Holy fuck. Brain fuck and vim script

@retoor he got them almost all ;)