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@PetarP
I spent years learning about copywriting and marketing, psychology, etc.
It was hard at first because I have more of a logical brain, like most programmers, but I figured it out (over years and years)
I have found that finding a niche is actually quite a complicated thing, it ties into the essence of your business, knowing your customer, solving a problem.
It's easy to "find a niche" it's a whole other thing to carve out your position in it, and setup business.
But I'm confident I can teach it to fellow programmers, in a style like coding so that they would understand.
Thanks for your comment. -
@delegate212
If I were to spend my time creating a course, it would be of very high quality, with no stone left unturned.
I know what it's like to be mistified by the idea of marketing and business, because 20 years ago, I was mistified. I never was an english type person, I was a math person. I remember my first salesletter took a month to write. Now I can crank one out in 15 minutes that will sell.
I persevered and "cracked the code" on it. This is after many many years. And now I can teach it to others.
Some marketing speak there for you...
Anyway I literally just realized this morning, after spending some time on this site, how needed it is.
So yes, it will obviously cost money :) IF I do it.
But more than that, it's a project that I'll enjoy doing, as I love programmers, because I am one. That's an important criteria for me. And I can pick and choose my ventures, on my own time. I just want others here to do the same as it seems they can't. -
@rant1ng Surprised you're not creating an eBook.
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@delegate212
Ebooks are so 2004 :) I think I detect sarcasm though :)
Anyway, how you maximize revenue based on your content, multi-purposing it, etc, would be something I would cover as well, There's a lot of really nifty tricks to it and it definitely applies to software.
Deciding what features to include, and how to include them, in what form, and in a way that positions and competes, is not easy when you do it yourself. You have to make the decisions, you can't escape and "follow orders". You have to have the marketing know how, too.
So, ebook, no. Maybe I'll create a gamified tutoring style, like Babel or whatever. But I'm sure that would be insulting to programmers. It would to me. -
@rant1ng Question - will I be able to earn $248 an hour working from home?
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@delegate212
no, obviously.
$249 / hour
but when you teach people there's another way to earn money, you get sarcastic people like yourself
I don't blame you, the hype in the industry is ridiculous
but there are honest people just trying to teach what they know, who have knowledge you don't
if you like your job and career, or freelancing, stick with it
if you don't, maybe learn a different way
if you think i'm full of shit, I didn't do my marketing correctly and failed
not that I"m marketing now
which is a whole other topic and a sticking point for programmers, it was for me:
what is marketing? is it lying?
no, it isn't
bad marketing is lying
I learnt that, deeply after many years, too
there's a lot more to business than most programmers realize
maybe that's why they're unhappy fixing shit code and stuck doing tasks they hate
but thanks for your feedback, it will help my marketing -
@rant1ng Does your marketing method at all contain a large sum of money sitting in the bank account of a deposed prince somewhere that can be released for a small sum?
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@delegate212 Because I won't fall for that a 3rd time.
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@delegate212
Dude. I get it, but now you're just being stupid.
How is offering to teach my experience in anyway similar to that cliched scam?
I have done this for 20 years. I made 7 figures.
Why is it assumed that "dumb" people would "fall" for "learning how to write your own software that you can make a living off of specifically taylored to programmers, by a programmer?"
Do they teach that class in school? If so, show me where.
Maybe some people are sick of sitting in cubes obeying their idiot, non technical masters, for 40k/year working 100 hours a week?
In no way are any of them dumb enough to fall for the scam you're mentioning. -
@rant1ng I’m intrigued. @delegate212 to be fair I’m cautiously intrigued. It is a marketing Poe’s razor. Those who are really successful are almost impossible to tell from those who are lying about success.
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@jeeper
The more you learn about advertising and marketing, the easier to see the fakers from the authentic.
Recognizing the good marketing job they did, one can assume did the same in product creation.
But, I believe everyone has a good sixth sense.
It's why some websites and products "shine" and others don't.
It is a lot more deep than a design theme.
More pragmatically, testimonials and reviews help, and proof.
If I do this, I'll have to list on my sales page all the websites I've done, how much they made, how much time I put into them - with PROOF.
1 example: I spent 2 months coding non-stop and the website earned me a million in 5 years.
But of course, this is only AFTER I spent years and years failing at it.
I'll have testimonials from all the happy customers, fellow marketers and colleagues.
Even programmers who say my code is tight.
I will have to, because programmers are naturally skeptical and logical.
Anyway, thanks for your comment. -
@Hu-bot0x58 and everyone who has ++'ed this
wow I am seriously a bit surprised, I mean, I know there's a need for this, but..
I'm definitely going to have to start on this right away.
I'm going to write a very rough draft as quick as possible and personally PM everybody on this thread and give them a free evaluation copy!
I hope it'll be ready within 2-3 weeks. That may seem short, but it can be done. Then I'll take the feedback I get from that and improve on it, eventually turning it into a course.
Very excited to see a need and to be able to help out. It's sad how programmers are used and taken for granted, from the ridiculous base salaries now, to the replaceable coding practices, to just people being dicks and clueless in general. There's no reason why a lot of you can't just do your own thing and create your own destiny with this marketing know-how... broken down specifically for coders, by a coder.
The brainstorming and outline has begun already! -
@rant1ng Who refers to their code as "tight"? I thought the industry agreed we should be writing loose code.
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@delegate212
Someone who never had to work for someone else, who can choose his own slang.
Don't you have work to get on to? Or is this your job now? Was it self-appointed? Good for you, you're experiencing being an entrepreneur. Hope you'll make money from theses tasks.
Although I have to take issue with what you choose to dedicate your entrepreneurial freedom to, personally I don't waste my time on hating, I'm too busy creating. -
@rant1ng glad to provide honest feedback. I know how hard it can be to come by.
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Have my ++ as the 100th one. I hope this sparks the needed motivation to make it a truly good course/guide/tutorial
I'm young but have had vast interest in many subjects, reading a lot of books and I enjoy researching and giving feedback more than anything else. I've finally come to programming 1 and a half year ago and have chosen to try going this exact path, that you're describing and have gone youself. I know much psychology, less business and very little marketing(so far!). Science is my top subject, it's soon being overrun by programming and project management though. (you might have guessed how nerdy I am by now haha)
I am very, very intrigued and would seriously love to help you out in any way possible. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to speed up the progress. I have an unused Gmail I'd be happy to have 'released' to the masses of people (talking about people on here, just the oppertunity could be enough for spambots haha)
Or maybe create a chat for info? -
@nanl tbf he won’t have a boss when he makes his ebook “the marketing guru. How I made $284 a day working from home” and it becomes an Amazon best seller.
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@nanl
The boss in that post is me. I was trying to get myself to be more productive. It was a dialogue between me and myself and in that regard, genuine. But the response to it surprised me as does this thread. It shows me the pain suffered in having a job in this field that I never had to live, that I see in almost every part on devrant.
That pain is unique to programmers, though, nevertheless I'm empathetic to it. I have a real passion for this.. The observation that less qualified people rule the over qualified...because the over qualified are introverted.
That shit has to change. -
@delegate212
I have lived in that industry from before you were probably born. I understand your skepticism, believe me. But most of the most innovative marketing you see in 2018 was born from it. The next time you log into your bank and they hit you with an offer before you can see your balance, you should thank Mike filsaime, he invented that. He was a customer of mine in 2002. Ironically you learn more from the courses that have those advertisements than you do in any class in school. There's a reason it is now cliche and is quoted and familiar now in the, of all places, programming world now. Your attitude is typical of someone who has been burnt. It's not easy to get your hopes up about the idea of making a lot of money outside of the established paradigm of job. It is that psychology in of itself that is the most fascinating and why programmers get paid shit now. -
@Brosyl
1) In all my years of being in the proxy self help / start a business niche, I'd say this is the #1 reason most people don't start a business. Or if they do start it, they don't finish it. It's not like in school where one person (your teacher) sees your work, the world will see it, and you're all by yourself. When people judge with their wallet, they are merciless. But this is a fear one has to get over and I'll have a lot of ways to do that in the book that will hopefully help.
2) this is also a huge, huge weakness of programmers that I want to fix. It's something you can wrap your head around if someone explains it right, but if you don't get it, you dont get it. I hear ya.
3) This is the job of a therapist and I do hope you seek help for this. No shame in that!
4) If you pick the right niches (hint, SMALL ones) you don't have to worry about this. I've always gone after tiny niches and did just fine. -
@hidingFromBoss
I'm working on it. I'm still researching and brainstorming, putting together the outline.
Once that's done, it should all flow very nicely.
The first incantation of this knowledge will be a simple pdf, free for you guys in exchange for honest criticism and reviews. but it will grow from there.
I definitely see a huge need for this, and happy to share my 20 years experience.
But, like today, for example. I wake up, have my coffee, work on my pet project software (which I have no team members, or bosses, or anything to answer to) I can refactor it to my liking. I can take the day off if I want. I of course use good coding practices because one day I'll have to hire someone to take it over and they need to get it immediately.
Then I'll spend a few hours on this book, and call it a day. Nice and slow and relaxed, day by day. Nobody to answer to. All my own work on my time based on my interests. How it should be for all of you. -
One thing I know for sure... I'd rather write code, than write english lol
But I'm going to make this like code, structure it like it's software and teach marketing concepts like they are software principles
That's how I'd teach myself 20 years ago, and i'd have save myself a ton of pain and effort! -
@rant1ng as someone who has started taking this path and his first project is about to be released in a few weeks, I'd be happy to help however I can with the pdf, while making sure the project succeeds.
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@rant1ng just passing by to hold you accountable to this!! Looking forward to this.
@hidingFromBoss dang it man, good for you! 👍 Do you mind just sharing some simple summary? I'd love to hear about that experience! -
@benj thanks for the kick in the ass
I'm all in man
Once I say "ok I'm doing this" I'm doing it! No matter what
It's coming along nicely ... Its gonna be great..
I'll have a splash page up in a few days...for pre registering
Meanwhile.. The writing continues... -
@rant1ng I truly hope this is not one of those "get this free and now for only $299.99 you can get all other this stuff!" kind of thing.
I'm ok paying for good quality material though, but I want to believe is not hype and another cheap marketing strategy... there are too many of those already -
@benj *sigh* I know
The reason that happens is because one marketer will teach how to sell something for $497 by turning it into a *course* instead of an ebook, then people will pay it! And you'l'l make more money! Aah do it!
So you have all these amateurs putting up $497 courses with *very* thin knowledge of what they are teaching, stretching nothing content into classes, workshops, etc.
They all forget that you have to actually deliver REAL value. The golden rule:
"For every $1 your customer spends, you must deliver $10 in value"
As I mentionned in this thread, you can smell that a mile away. Most people can.
Unfortunately, there's enough dumb people to go around feeding these jokers.
I don't do something unless I think I can make my customers super happy and it'll be the best in the industry. Otherwise, not worth doing.
So yeah, that's my short answer. And that's my goal, to turn you all into Solo Programmers working for yourself (whoever wants to be). -
@BadCompany hah I just read your post again I meant to reply to it earlier
Honestly, the inspiration for this book comes from the sadness i feel most days when scrolling through the rants. its like.. man, all these super smart people just, like, not getting what they should get
meanwhile, complete idiots start businesses and get rich
I have seen it over and over and over again, and yeah, like you said, all summarized in one app scroll -
@benj to make it short, in my experience this is correct:
1. Your project will probably make 1/5 of the money you initially thought it would.
2. You will sink at least 3 times work hours into finishing the project as you initially thought.
3. If you're living alone and you don't have friends to come over regularly, it can get pretty lonely.
These are the unseen negative parts about working from home for yourself. You know the positive sides. Make a decision based on you situation. -
@benj I personally prefer this over offices, just so I wouldn't waste my time proving to my PMs and supervisors and CEOs how stupid their demands and comments are.
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@hidingFromBoss
1. Yes, true. It's why you have to know exactly how much something is going to sell before you even start writing the code. Everyone kind of does this ass backwards, they spend months on dev THEN, put up the salesletter and see if it "works"
Been guilty of this too even though I know better. There's ways to test profits before development based on math and basic psychology, which has saved me months of wasted dev time on bad ideas I thought were good.
2) Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to fix this problem yet, lol Even when I double my estimates for time needed, never is accurate. But it's important to do the details your competition won't, that's how you stand out.
3) There's no built in social life from work, but that can be a good thing. You learn how to become more social and fit in anywhere. I've lived in like 30 different places all over the world and met all kinds of people from all walks of life. -
@hidingFromBoss
My first job, when I was 19, I created a simple form that connected to a database, it was for a logging company. It calculated the best shipping rates based on destination, type of transport, type of lumber, etc etc.
I had just finished reading a book on how to setup relational databases, and I used what I learned. Before that, they were doing it all with an excel sheet. This was like 1999, by the way.
So I remember, the boss took credit for my "app", and I had stayed there overnight to do some other work, I found him in the bathroom in the morning, he had apparently also, stayed up all night. So there he was shaving with an electric razor, and gave me a look like, he was king shit of the world, and I was nothing.
That's when I knew. I can never work for anyone, and never will. And I never did. I spent the next 2 years dedicated to the goal of writing my own software that can make me a living and I never looked back. -
UPDATE
So, I said I could do it in 3 weeks, but that was under optimal conditions, with no other project that is being launched in a month. Dammnit Jim! I'm a programmer, not a... fortune teller.
You can expect not meeting deadlines, right?
Anyway, I have the entire very detailed outline done and have written about 20 pages. It's going to be about 150-200 pages. I'm doing 5 pages a day.
It was really hard extracting all this info from my head into that outline, it took 2 weeks of daily hair pulling, but it got done. And I like how it turned out. That's the hard part, now its the easy part.
It's going to be a published book. That's my goal. It will happen. 20 years experience in the making, I know this is needed.
But the first few editions will be pdf, and you guys get the first copy and I"ll rely on your feedback to help me shape it and edit it so it's publishable.
Consider it done. In 20-30 days, that is.
So... 45 days. (we double estimates right?) -
@rant1ng I think you’ll have the first few chapters in 45 days. I think it will take around a year minimum to go from starting writing to getting anywhere near publishing.
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@jeeper hey.
you're probably right
In 45 days have a pdf that will be decent, that'll do the job and impart what I know
but it'll take a long ass time to get it published, with migraine producing amount of rewrites and edits
that's fine.... anything worth doing shouldn't be easy, or everyone would do it
I guess we'll all find out. -
@rant1ng hey dude! I'm keeping tabs on you and this project!
This is devRant so if it takes writing a bot to send you messages every 5 days... we are developers bro! 😂 -
@benj I got a great start on it
I had to sideline it in order to concentrate on finishing and launching my current software. It's a common mistake to start new projects right when other ones are near complete, because that's when things get hard.
Anyway, I'll be picking this up again next week. Thanks again for the kick in the ass!
I have been writing down ideas every day in my brainstorming journal, and i have a very detailed outline and 2 chapters written, about 25 pages so far.
All the pieces are there, I just have to fill in the spaces and provide detail where needed.
I'm hoping for a version available for October for devranters to download.
I want to make it the official book for anyone who wants to do the Solo Code.
This is the working Title:
TheSoloCode.com
"Rediscovering the lost art of small, profitable solo projects"
something like that if any suggestions on the sub title, do share -
@rant1ng I wonder if should write a bot to keep tabs on you! 😜
Hehe, j/k... but still, here to give you a gentle, non-creepy, motivational poke.
If you are still on this I want it! if you get a simple site up with a pre-order I'll order it, or maybe Leanpub? I have bought there quite a few books, even though there were not finished...
Anyways, hope you are doing good! -
@benj *sigh*
This is why it takes a year to write a book. It's never someone's main thing, is it.
I remain committed to finishing this. Biggest thing I learned in my 20 years of creating products to sell, is to think long and hard before choosing something, but once you choose it, there's no going back. You must commit, literally, no matter fucking what.
My main project is STILL being perfected, and launched dec 3rd. The good news, is that a major marketing guy is working with me to perfect it. The bad news is I had to sideline this.
After Dec 3rd, THIS is my main project.
Stay tuned I guess.
I remain committed to helping those coders who need it understand how they can use their programming powers for marketing and income mastery killing the need to rely on a 9-5, or dodgy freelance "gambling".
With all the knowledge a typical programmer has, they should be making a shit ton more money. This is going to be one way to do it. I have done it all my life. -
@rant1ng can't wait to read your thoughts
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Hey @rant1ng just wanted to follow up. There are people who would love to get this :) How's it going? Can you maybe setup a mailing list to get a notification when you finish?
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Ok, so obviously, things got pushed back a little.
Want to update everyone on the thread.
I have an opt-in form at
http://thesolocode.com
Obviously, I could have done a lot more since last year, however I believe very strongly in "one project at a time" and rarely do I take on other work when i'm in product creation mode.
I did make kind of a noob mistake, the project I took on last year was way too big and took too long. I'm still finishing it up.
Anyway, I can explain marketing psychology and business to you because I am also a math oriented, logical thinker like you (probably) are, and I was also mystified with it all.
I learned, eventually. Proud to say I'm now a prolific copywriter, marketer, AND programmer.
This is exciting, I can finally talk programmer to programmer about how I make a good living doing this. Looking forward to hearing from you all!
http://thesolocode.com
Simple form, b/c fancy forms don't mean shit to a programmer now do they :) -
@maysi Thanks for the gentle push and reminder.
Another dev on my team just got a new machine. Before he came in today I made two separate USB installers and ...
After spending a few months on this site, what strikes me the most, is how unhappy a lot of programmers are.
It kind of makes me sad to see so many of you struggle with office politics bullshit everyday.
I have a confession to make.
I've never had a programming job, or freelanced, yet I have made a very comfortable living with programming and marketing for the past 20 years.
I make my living by finding niches where there is shit software, and creating a better alarm clock.
The first 5-10 years of doing this, I worked my ass off (throughout my twenties)
But during most of my thirties, I barely had to
work to keep it all up. I get residual income still
from stuff I did 10 years ago.
I'm curious if anyone at all would be interested in learning how to do this, quitting their job, for example, or, just having the freedom to write your own code without answering to anybody but your own customers. Many of whom you never have to talk to, they go to your site, they buy, and rarely ever send emails (if you do it right)
Everybody here has knowledge that is so bankable, yet they seem to just surrender to
asshole bosses and clients. It doesn't have to
be like that.
If you'd be interested in this, please ++ this.
I'm thinking of creating an online course about creating and marketing your own software, specifically for programmers like you guys. and girls.
I genuinely just want to see if there's interest. I hope that's ok.
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