94
xonya
3y

I've been very busy in the last weeks so I haven't read a lot about the recent "Linux CoC drama".

Now I'm reading what happened and, well... I'm disgusted.

Especially being a woman, I'm disgusted knowing that a group of people pretend to speak for me saying that we don't need meritocracy, but only more "inclusivity" (whatever that means). I don't give a fuck of your gender, write useful code and I'll appreciate you. And please, give me back the original Linus Torvalds: his irreverence made me laugh.

Sure, sometimes discrimination exists, however good companies will hire you if you are competent, no matter how you look. Instead, I encountered some incompetent women whining about "nobody listen to my ideas because I'm a woman". No, RTFM and maybe you will able to propose better ideas and people will listen to you.

Comments
  • 13
    Well said.
  • 9
    Thanks for that, sister..
  • 6
    That would be the ideal situation.
    However, I think it's important to consider there is some strong negative associations in society, which are really hard to fix. For example, there is a long history of racial discrimination in many countries, because black people were often portrayed negatively in culture and mass media.
    Same is valid for women, immigrants, poor, etc.
    Subtle psychological biases can influence our behavior if we are not vigilant to their influence.

    The sad part is, most people are not paying attention to this, and abuses still happen in many places.
  • 6
    @nanl

    Sounds like totally irrelevant to our jobs, and should only be reserved for those in other fields, such as baristas, HR (lol), and burger flipping engineers. Good code > other b.s.
  • 6
    @Nato Absolutely!

    Addendum:
    SJW is about policing, regulating and banning instead of EDUCATING about the problems.
    Feminism is mostly about empowring women, but women don't need that anymore.
    It's really fucking stupid when they demand "more diversity" in companies by forcing them to hire more women. Why fucking make this an issue of what genitals you have on whether you get hired?
    Hire the most competent person, no matter if vagina or penis.
  • 0
    Linus Torvalds was saying to people i.e. "suck my dick". So you're telling us you would enjoy hearing that from him? ;)
    You might probably enjoy but you should also understand that NORMAL people don't enjoy hearing this at professional work environment.
  • 5
    @nanl I'm not negating that a discrimination problem exists. I simply think that this CoC is not a solution, rather, it could make the situation worse. Moreover, I'm really worried about people like Coraline Ada Ehmke (the person who proposed this shit). For example, she suggested removing a contributor from an open-source project because he is transphobic (https://github.com/opal/opal/...). This is a social problem, which has anything to do with writing software. At the end she apologized (https://where.coraline.codes/blog/...), but in any case a person who acted in this way is dangerous. Sure, I don't like to work with racist people, but when they are working I have to judge them for their work, not for what they post on Twitter during they private life.

    [CONTINUES]
  • 3
    @nanl Have we too few women engineer? Start removing the labels "toy for boy" from car models and "toy for girl" from dolls and maybe in 20 years you will have more women engineer (and more male nurse). But probably they will never reach the 50%, because biological factors may also be involved (studies are not so clear at the moment). Forcing more women into the field without valuing their competence would only bring in more incompetent women, strengthening the stereotype that we are bad at writing code.
  • 5
    @wateringdisease It's absolutely unprofessional, however I like this aspect of him personality, and I'm not alone:

    https://reddit.com/r/linusrants/
  • 3
    Through all of that, if you boil it down to the CoC, it's all reasonable.

    Sure, there are retards that will add their 2 cents like radicalized right wing people who see every "be polite" as some SJW because that's what "They" do, because that's change, because change is bad. Or the opposite - brainless "everything offends me" babies. --- they should all be ignored. Fuck them all. Focus on what's important.

    Nowhere in that CoC does it say to ignore meritocracy.

    If there is to be a functioning community, people must be treated as equal and only code should be criticized. What's not reasonable about that? And is one is hostile to random community members, then the entire community will be hostile towards that member. Just as any society should work.
  • 3
    @wateringdisease It seems that you are not smart enough to recognise the difference between what you wrote and Torvals irony. I'm sorry for you.
  • 1
    @AndSoWeCode Yes, you are right saying the CoC text is not that bad. I'm just worried about how some people could abuse of it.
  • 1
    @xonya oh yea? He's known for saying "suck my dick" to his co-workers. Since you are smarter than the rest of us, please tell us why you would enjoy him to say "suck my dick" to you? And why do you want to hear this only from him but not others?
  • 5
    @wateringdisease The problem is when someone says “suck my dick” what they’re actually likely saying is something like “that’s a stupid request and the answer is no”, but you stop short of actually understanding the communication and instead get hung up on some minor piece of how it was communicated.

    It’s kind of like if I said “racism is wrong and people who judge others based on their skin color are assholes” and you came back saying “using the word asshole in a derogatory fashion is offensive to gay people because they enjoy assholes.”

    The point is, who the fuck cares what language we use. What matters is what we’re saying. If Linus disagrees with something strongly enough to say “suck my dick”, it’s probably worth discussing what he disagrees with, not his choice of wording.
  • 1
    @devios1 wow ! So, if someone strongly disagrees with you and says "suck my dick" you will understand this and suck it up? I cant believe you people who love being humiliated :D
  • 2
    @wateringdisease I would probably not be overly offended by him telling me to suck his dick, unless the reason for him saying that was what offended me.

    I mean I might get sick of it after a while if it went on. But the point is it would depend on the context.

    "Suck my dick" is not a grave insult where I come from, lol.
  • 1
    @devios1 So, lets say I'm working with you and I'm more experienced/talented than you. Which directly puts me into the position that I will be right every single time during my code reviews of your code. This means I can call you a "piece of shit","suck my dick","go sell lemons instead you moron"?

    Ever heard of constructive negative feedback?
  • 2
    @wateringdisease You could say that, sure. Whether you say that or not is up to you and a measure of your character. How I would react is to the message, not the verbiage of its construction. Since I don't understand the context of how it was used I can't say any more.
  • 6
    Well said!
    About the hiring process, I couldn't agree more!
    Three weeks ago I got a call from a female that we interviewed for a Python dev position and she didn't pass.
    She was irritated and occasionally threw a fake crying voice into the conversation.
    She was claiming that we failed her due to her being a woman.
    Which angered me a lot, since our last two recruits are females, and this one didn't pass because she has zero real work experience, had really bad grades in the college and lied on her CV about her skills.
  • 0
    @xonya for now, there was great abuse on the other front. Come on, look at what happened to Unity and Mir. Bullied out of existence.
  • 3
    Have my fav. I will maybe nail this on a wall.
  • 0
    @Noob how dare you not hire her!!1!!! 🤣
  • 1
    @PonySlaystation at least she only has my work phone number.
  • 5
    @xonya : Well said. INstead of fighting discrimination, they utilize "positive discrimination" to a) seek attention and b) press through their will.

    I hope this nonsense will pass. Better sooner than later.
  • 2
    @xonya I like you already. Really wish someone with opinions like this was here (in my country).

    A huge number of the recruiters of my University are dedicated to turn their gender ratio in technical departments cumulatively to 1:1 by 2020 (my final year). Currently it is around 7:3. Naturally, it sucks to see good seniors losing out from-campus placement offers to "others" because of their gender (?maybe?).
  • 2
    @sniped-sippet This is really sad :(
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