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Comments
  • 12
  • 26
    This is the truth... the whole truth... and nothing but the truth.
  • 29
  • 18
    Finally, the truth

    ++ for source link
  • 8
    I think all of his points are either dumb or not really good points at all. (Especially the first one, that's really dumb).

    But as a JS developer I can say that I also really don't like most other JS developers. They use two spaces for indentation and ' for their quote marks. They also skip out on semicolons and inline their braceless ifs. Worst of all is the fact they haven't figured out how to follow my own eslint rules when it comes to scaffolding code and shit (and this is angular I'm talking about, and since I've tried it with angular it must be true for everything else!!!)
  • 6
    I don't agree with the npm and all the packages mentioned part..

    nobody forces you to use npm or any of its packages, and first of all educate yourself before shitting about npm, if the project is 300 MB it doesn't mean the prod build will stay 300 MB, tools like webpack only compile the needed modules and functions..

    But I must agree on the frameworks part lol
  • 10
    Even if your prod built won't have 300mb, you still need to have them installed. Unline with mvn, not within shared repository. 300MB is comparable to the size of Linux kernel, yet nodejs ecosystem is nowhere near that complexity.
  • 4
    While those points are semi-valid, I don't feel like Go developers are in position to put any criticism on any language there is. I can't wait to see how this abomination pops and people start migrating to something decent.

    Also, I don't hear same argument when talking about smth like python pip (which is the worst) or maven while making a point against a language.

    Hell, most languages just don't have any comparable ecosystem, that allows you to effortlessly reuse other people code. That's just embarrassing.
  • 12
    @lyxsus Calling any language an abomination while comparing it to JS is brave.
  • 4
    @lyxsus hot take but maven is the best central repo imo, close second is opam
  • 2
    @ganjaman opam is great, no questions. but maven is uuuh. but maybe it's just because of my personal allergy to anything Java-related, except Scala.
  • 1
  • 3
    exactly!
  • 3
    i actually describe js devs as lazy people who only know javascript. man!, there's like a ton of other languages out there that can do other things js is trying to do with far less resource.
  • 4
    javascript is like java, python and vb fused together into this hot pile of disgusting mess.
  • 4
    What are "Reinvent the wheel" things in Javascript?
    I have to agree that JS devs are so greedy, want to bring everything into JS. How the hell do they want machine learning libs in JS?
    There're only best tools for a certain purpose, there're no tools to do everything.
  • 3
    @elitedawn lazy – yes. but knowing only 1 language is a bit of insult to a good portion of devs that don't feel too bad about JS. For instance, I wrote at least 1/4m lines of code on more than a dozen languages. I just really like learning and trying in a wild new languages. I never said JS is good, but it's one of a few langs that's constantly improving. I remember it back when it was competing with java applets and COM plugins, then it outlived Flash, then coffeescript and etc. It was always ugly, but in sum better than all alternatives at any given moment if deliver some UX to as many users as possible.
  • 1
    @elitedawn the moment it becomes practical to use a language of my choice in browser via webasm, goodbye JS. But it's a very long road before that'll be possible.
  • 1
    umm yeah.. I do give a flying fuck about what golang devs think about me. I spend day and night thinking about that. lol
  • 2
    @elitedawn I've just realised, we're not having about abstract better-language-on-paper discussion? Because I was talking about things I can actually use for projects that are actually needed. If not, I'd spend my all time with haskell or ocaml or rust or maybe lisp. but not go for the f-sake. really, why go? why not rust?
  • 3
    @lyxsus about your question about why there is no take on other languages, because the OP quoted an answer to a specific question about Go devs against JS. 😉
    Don't take it too personally.
  • 2
    @lyxsus I'm constantly reminded that i have to learn scala sooner or later
  • 2
    @Yamakuzure I saw source post on Quora a few days ago, but didn't say anything there. Here I decided to say anything only because this space is about ranting after all. And I have a strong personal opinion about specifically Go, which I wanted to went a bit for a long time. I didn't mean to go after anybody personally. I'm just really disappointed that it gets so much traction nowadays. There's a lot of useful things built with Go and it found its empty niche, but I've expected something much, much more well-designed to come out of Google. It would never got that popular were it presented by other dev group.
  • 2
    Queuing my hate. Will be back shortly.
  • 6
    I honestly believe that most of those points are based on absolute ignorance. Much like when people shit on Maven without fully understanding how it works(Gradle too for that matter) in regards to the entirety of the Java ecosystem, or how people bitch about pip modules ignoring the fact that vurtalenv/virtualenvwrapper/conda etc etc exist for having isolated environments, or the ruby gem ecosystem in regards to rvm etc -------> ignorance.

    As someone points out, you DO NOT need any of those tools to add shit to the web, feeling frisky? go on and write your own shit or download the source code and script include it in your shitty 90's looking ass websites.

    A go developer bitching on JS, that is pretty fucking rich. I like the language don't get me wrong, but it really ain't the silver bullet people make it out to be, nor it is a marvel of a language, the ecosystem is(if anything) retarded regarding dependency management among other things, by heavens that shit is really weird.
  • 4
    @AleCx04 sorry pal, but I *hate* it that every other site has so much garbage pulled in, that it takes a minute to load a fucking 500 words article on my phone.
    Most of this bullshit is either about tracking/adds, or this cancer called "one-page-design", loading a shit load of crap nobody even needs.
    I do not want the "shitty 90s design" back, but it at least loaded quickly with a 56k modem and a browser that ran on hardware, that couldn't handle any blog or modern forum these days.
  • 4
    @Yamakuzure your phone is not pulling a fuckload of things from anywhere. Dependencies get bundled on the app itself, and I really want to know what kind of connection/phone you have to have such speeds my dude. I think last time I had something similar it was probably in 2010? I can't remember.
  • 3
    I mean another question we might want to ask ourselves is why is anyone a 'Javascript developer' in the first place? If you think about JS basically its whole purpose in life is to shuttle data back to the server and maybe modify some front end shit but why would you want to do anything else with it? JS is one of the most over hyped over used languages in my opinion. It's slow as balls, it has so much crap getting added to it every day it's outrageous and it has caused our web applications to come to a grinding halt. UBlock Origin on Chrome blocks something north of 10,000 scripts on Gmail for me and things work just fine without any of those scripts. Also yourself why the fuck do we need 10k + scripts to run any website? We don’t, if you do it’s over engineered garbage. I personally hope and believe that someday JS will die to be replaced by a more elegant language for the web. But maybe that’s just me...
  • 1
    @Yamakuzure @asinglenoob So you mean that as soon we stop using JS in browser to generate tons of garbage, marking BS, ads, popups, followups, trackers, one-page websites and replace it with something else, it'll solve anything at all? Any tiny bit? One-page apps won't be a problem anymore, popups and ads will stop consuming memory and cpu, trackers will become privacy-friendly and basically all bad code will go away? I don't know. What would it be?
  • 4
    @asinglenoob easy, because it is not uncommon for a developer(s) to *specialize* in a particular technology stack. You can be a developer that specializes on low level development i.e a c/cpp developer, you can be a developer that specializes in large distributed telephony systems like a BEAM stack developer etc etc. Being a Node.js, and by extension a JS developer means that you work on a rather large ecosystem that covers a wide array of things, from the frontend to the backend. Also, give me them benchmarks that shows me that JS as a language is a severely slow language for which one should not consider it. Shit, even PHP with Swoole has left Go and CPP in the dust, caring about "slow" languages does not exist, SPECIALLY in the web, we ain't making compilers here bud. And what do you mean by "crap added to it every day"? You mean the language changing? God forbid people listen to the needs of developer. I am glad we don't have a benevolent dictator here.
  • 2
    This is what I mean by puto shit @Stuxnet
  • 4
    @AleCx04 I've learned to stop giving a fuck what other developers think about a particular language, OS, etc.

    It's a lot of arrogant assholes with that "my tech is the only correct option," and I just don't have time to deal with it.

    Like I'm all for caring about your field and the future of it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to take it ridiculously seriously (especially not the Stallman Screecher I tagged you in the other day).

    My criteria for determining what to use:

    1. Does it do the job?
    2. Is it the best option?

    That's the only things that should matter.
  • 1
    I would invite anyone complaining about dependency size to check out how much disk space their IDE takes. Just because our tools are from npm doesn't mean they're not necessary, unless you feel comfortable with rolling out a custom virtual dom every time.
  • 5
    Also, a lot of JS devs love using JS where CSS would do. And they like to use the wrong HTML elements and then use JS to fake the desired behaviour - half-assed as usual because the keyboard navigation doesn't quite work.

    The recurring pattern is to reinvent the wheel badly in JS.
  • 2
    @Stuxnet for real man. I just get tired of all the sweeping generalizations these dudes make. Mainly because I normally have higher hopes for fucking logical thinking on developer.

    Boy was I so unceremoniously mistaken. Could not find denser people anywhere else.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop I think we can thank jquery for that
  • 0
    @AleCx04 Firefox on 16MBit WiFi. Chrome was worse.
  • 0
    @lyxsus I was never talking about Apps, but regular websites.
  • 0
    I had to take over a project from a Go developer. I can't even begin to describe how much python it was supported by. And setting up his docker environment required pip, composer, npm and brew.

    This problem is everywhere today.
  • 1
    @inaba
    Only beginners rely on bloatQuery
  • 0
    @fives and people who instead of leaves ning js learned jquery
  • 4
    @AleCx04 @Yamakuzure

    Who gives a crap if it's 90's looking? Make it bloody lightweight! I don't need bullshit nonsense like opaque glass, dropped fuzzy shadows and unicorn shitting rainbows in the sidepanel. Resources taken by Electron apps are crazy, while the browser hoggs more CPU and memory than gaming.

    The resource part of the rant is on point. Thanks to the "modern web" there is no more of "i can give them the old computer just for a simple webbrowsing". And the NoJS plugin is no longer an answer as most of the websites basically breaks down without it.

    http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
  • 2
  • 0
    @qwwerty because there is a difference between a website and a web application. And what you are referring to is styling. Not JS functionality affecting a webpage.
  • 1
    @qwwerty you can make shit lightweight, responsive, accessible AND looking somewhat nice.
  • 3
    @Fast-Nop yep, as @Jilano already pointed out with The Best Motherfucking webpage link :)

    Unfortunately that's not a case for most of the websites.
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