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My friend, senior .NET Dev, has just told me a similar story a few days ago. He concluded by saying that he's depressed by how rare are people that posses ability to just THINK and analyse.
Every time he has to work with some new people, or has to help other senior devs, everyone just wants to get everything on a silver platter.
That's kinda disgusting. -
@unsignedint I don’t believe that the programme anyone studies has even remotely anything to do with their ability to think — anyone with the inclination to do so can learn any practical skills pretty quickly, so in fact it often provides valuable perspective and the ability to think about problems from different points of view.
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@OscarSouth sure, that's true. But in my experience, people coming out of Liberal Arts degrees are less able / not able to apply the kind of thought processes required for software development. They didn't study Computer Science or Engineering for a reason...
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@unsignedint that can be true in some instances but I think the cases of intelligent people who simply followed a passion earlier in life and that of unoriginal thinkers taking analytic programmes ‘because you should’ balances it out to the point that it’s a detriment to any individual who tried to judge people on this criteria alone. Someone will always come along and surprise you for either good or bad reasons — best to just judge each person on their individual merits!
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@unsignedint She actually went to college for web development. I'm not sure how she managed.
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@OscarSouth I judge people individually and almost invariably find them distinctly lacking. It's a bit depressing.
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@Root this person had a little merit in that I laughed slightly (in that silently, not really laughing but mildly amused kind of way) while reading your rant.
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@Root aha, "web development". Yeah you often get the marketing types doing those courses because they like the idea of being able to make websites - but their minds literally aren't geared for it. If you get more complex than updating a CMS they're totally useless.
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@Root my two cents, organization s should hire someone with thirst for knowledge and desire to work, instead of fancy degree
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@amrit2022 Absolutely!
Papers mean nothing at all except perhaps some dedication to completing busywork and ability to follow directions. Neither are particularly useful attributes in a creative field like development. -
Update: The intern finally finished copy/pasting and editing the feature.
It didn't work.
It had mixed whitespace.
> (And she didn't know this was bad? How?)
It had mismatched labels.
Its styling wasn't updated.
It had bizarre size limits on the table (every string was a varchar(16), including the column for json).
{"long": "json"} 😅
It took me about as long to fix her work as it would have to do the entire thing myself -- and this doesn't include the 13 minute phonecall walking her through fixing her migration mess, or the cumulative ~half hour of helping and explaining. or writing this rant or this comment, or any of the other ranting I did. So assigning the feature to her used more than five times more of my time than if I did it myself.
... USELESS! -
@unsignedint I have Computer Science and Computer/Software Engineering interns (i even had some from masters) that are as useless as @root mentioned... Something as simple as integrating a python function into a class, and then asking me how a class works, putting a windows path (because they refuse to install linux) and then asking why it doesn't work on the linux server since it works on their laptop... not just those random simple tasks, but actual software tasks... Not sure, have lots of weird examples, but worst for me is when I had foreign interns and they don't understand a task (I always take a look at their face and make sure they understand, even ask two or more times to make sure), and they stay a day without working, and end of the day or next day morning, i ask for the follow-up and they say "I didn't really understand what was supposed to do"
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@Agred i am an analyst. I wonder the same shit even from fellow analysts
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@Root that's why I never take an intern without pair programming.
Last year one team took an intern that took 4 days to do a "replace all"... He even managed to come 3 times without the laptop we gave him!!!
And he was finishing his engineering degree!!!!! -
I'm fucking splitted between two ways of thought.
First, I'm an elitist, deep inside. This is partly due to being a self-learner with imposter syndrome in leader ship positions (I'm the only one in the whole company without a degree). I have high expectations of people bred in academic farms.
Then, I'm in a leadership position; my role is to make sure everyone can imrpove and I feel like if someone fails, it's my fault.
So... first polarity: people are fucking dumb and can't do shit themselves. Second: they can't do shit because I failed them.
Fortunately, nearly all our developers (at least those in my team) are fucking wonderful and they give me credit for that everyday. I'm so grateful to have an amazing team.
I still see a lot of people who have 0 business to do in development and I wish I could tell them to fuck off so they don't contaminate our culture. -
@devs She had been given other tasks before me and failed at all of them. I was her last chance.
She was on WeChat half of the time she was supposed to be working (or off chatting with her friend), and produced crap frontend despite ostensibly being a frontend dev. Her other projects were likewise broken or terrible enough to be scrapped and rewritten entirely.
She was consistently slow, produced poor (and mostly non-functional) results, and showed no dedication.
I liked her, and will miss talking with her, but there is no place for anyone like that. -
I might get flamed as misogynist, but fuck if I care... try crying every time you talk to her. Silent tears, trembling lip, staring at here all butt hurt. Gasping for breath, that's another good one. Go 150% Snowflake-itis. Who gives a shit if she lives or dies, but it will release your tension, and eventually you'll start laughing in her face.
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@OscarSouth What you described is called a chuckle.
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@Root I feel so sorry for you right now, that I'd quit my job and come work for you just to make you feel better. I have also managed such hopelessly incompetent interns just in it for the money (or preparation for marriage, in our part of the world...😣)
Alas, I don't know where you are 😢 -
@Agred This sppke to me like nothing else! I sometimes feel like I'm studying morology (study of human stupidity).
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I'm an intern and I feel so incredibly guilty for taking many leaves. I'm still in univ so leaves are either univ work or because I ate something bad and now have food poisoning.
I often contemplate going to internship even when I'm sick. Everyone tells me to take rest but I still feel so guilty.
My days at the internship end in 2 ways, either I'm euphoric that I was so productive that day, or that I was so useless and unproductive.
They don't even pay me, just reimburse my travel. But I do like the people a lot there.
My friend said an intern designed this UI for an internal site.
No. Just... no
When I am trying to figure out what's going on in the code
Fucking intern.
While I was working next to her a couple weeks back, she spent half her time on social media, playing Candy Crush, or talking with her friend. She also left early almost every day.
I had given her a project to do (object crud + ui), and helped her through it. She made pretty abysmal progress in a week. I ended up finishing it for her by rewriting basically all of her code (every single line except some function names, lone `end` or `}` statements, a few var declarations, blank lines, plus a couple of comments she copied over from my code).
This week I gave her a super easy project to do. It amounts to copying four files (which I listed), rename a few things to be Y instead of X, and insert two lines of code (which I provided) to hook it up. Everything after that just works. It should have taken her ... okay, maybe a few hours because she's slow and new to the language. but it would have taken me five to ten minutes, plus five minutes of testing.
She has spent THREE FUCKING DAYS ON THIS AND SHE'S STILL NOT DONE. SHE'S BLOODY USELESS!
She has kept not pulling changes and complaining that things are broken. Despite me telling her every time I push changes that affect her work (on. my. branch. ergh!)
She keeps not reading or not understanding even the simplest of things. I feel like MojoJojo every time I talk to her because of how often I repeat myself and say the same things again and again.
Now she's extremely confused about migrations. She keeps trying to revert a drop_table migration that she just wrote so she can re-create the table differently. Instead of, you know, just reverting back to her migration that creates the table. it's one migration further.
Migrations are bloody simple. they're one-step changes to the database, run in order. if you want to make a change to something you did a few steps back, you roll back those migrations, edit your shit, and run them again. so bloody difficult!
`rails db:rollback && rails db:rollback`
Edit file
`rails db:migrate`
So. hard.
I explained this to her very simply, gave her the commands to copy/paste, ... and she still can't figure it out. She's fucking useless.
It took me ten minutes to walk her though it on a screen share. TEN FREAKING MINUTES.
She hasn't finished a damned fucking thing in three weeks. She's also taking interview calls while working on this, so I know she totally doesn't care.
... Just.
Fucking hell.
USELESS FUCKING PEOPLE!
rant
intern
96+ times slower
useless intern
what other kinds are there?