Appleism is a religion.
https://zdnet.com/article/...

My father got converted into it.
I offered him how to buy powerful pc with better specs for three times lower price, but he did not listen.

@Floydimus I don't get why MacOS is seen as something not dev friendly. It's friendlier than windows at least. MacOS being a Unix derivative works just like a Linux machine as far as development experience is concerned. It literally runs the same stuff.

Hate on it as much as you want though, that's a different thing.

@RememberMe I never meant that it is not dev friendly. It's just more non-dev friendly.

@Floydimus "the rest like Windows and Linux are for people who are more technical in nature"

I meant that. MacOS scales as well as anything does. But, anyway, carry on.

@OP your father probably has uses from his computer where performance specs don't mean shit. And that's true of most people in general. And that's perfectly ok.

@RememberMe umm okay so what I meant by that is, Windows and Linux needs more technical expertise to use as compared to Mac.

Again this does not mean a technical person should not use Mac or that Mac isn't tech friendly.

@Floydimus fair enough

Apple is a cult and a scam.

Use bootcamp and get the best of both worlds.

Also, that opinion piece is dumb as fuck. I used windows for decades before I was reluctantly given a Mac for a previous job. I went from “this is fucking lame” to “this is actually pretty good” in a few weeks. If you actually used one, you would probably agree.

@wackOverflow too late

I used Windows for decade too.

But I got addicted to Linux recently. The whole OS is like a big IDE for me. Just perfect.

@darkwind These days, Linux can even be suited for regular users without IT background. For example, I migrated most of my near family to Linux Mint after Windows went downhills.

@RememberMe
most of the hatred towards Mac is the less control offered by the manufacturer in comparison to linux or windows.
in terms of control windows is much closer to linux than Mac OS
windows and linux doesn't require any restart to be in full admin mode.
this is a personal experience with mac os:
i was working as a devops for a company who had all developers work on iMacs "bad decision" it was a full php stack.
the identity management and token authentication was dependent on a system library called bcmath.
long story short the version required for the library security patch to work was simply not available in the Mac Repos and i had to get the source code to make and build the plugin manually on every machine in the office to get work to continue.
MacOS is not developer friendly, good performance yes, at the price of less control and this is what you get when you have to write an OS for a targeted hardware, with next to 0 backward compatibility.

@maces "I had to get the source code to make and build the plugin manually [...]" The fact that you can do that is exactly my point, also that not being on Mac repos is just how open source works, people fix things when they find them broken. Also, that's everyday stuff for software dev. Manually building software is something I do all the time on my Linux machines too. My work setup has CentOS 7 and no sudo access, so I need to build literally everything in user directories, including newer versions of g++ and GHC and associated libs. Which is pretty painless tbh.

Not sure what you mean by admin mode, but Mac does sudo just fine. I'd argue you should not be using it anyway unless you need hardware access, and very little of mainstream software development does.

I agree that you get to customize less stuff. But as far as I can tell that's largely to do with how you interact with the OS, the "non tech user facing" side (and of course the OS itself). For mainstream technical stuff (apart from xcode, which is garbage), so far I haven't found anything that really hinders you. Many Mac users I know are hardcore vim-with-plugins types and they seem to be fairly happy with it.

@RememberMe
"the fact that you can do this is exactly my point"
umm you can do this everywhere lol even on old school consoles, the fact that I HAVE to do this is a different story now this is some quality shit.

full admin mode is a terrible name on my behalf but in order to be able to actually build the plugin and attach it to the OS i have to enable some sort of high elevated access which required a restart and enabling some sort of full access.

@maces again, package management is hardly the OS' job or fault. Since it did end up running, I'm not sure why this is an issue. Version conflicts are old hat.

Are you talking about kernel extensions when you meant admin mode?

@RememberMe customizing Vim which is an editing software has nothing to do with MAC, vim is customizable on my smart fridge.

can i have a different start menu on Mac? can i change the desktop environment?
can i add a new Nvidia GPU?
can i add a new larger ssd without voiding the warranty?
can i clean it from dust without paying? 200+ to the genius bar "the most ironic name in the tech world"?

@RememberMe package management is not the OS job hahahaha... who's job it is? Microsoft?
we are talking about bcmath not printer driver

@RememberMe look man this why it's a cult

In religion it's always your fault, god is righteous and doesn't make mistakes

In apple universe it's always your fault, this is not apple's job nor mistake

In linux world you can bombard the shit of the user group "never been necessary" and you will be provided a work around quite fast. Windows might ignore but they won't blame you though

@maces Yes, you can add a larger SSD with Apple - if you order it with bigger flash. In return, you get soldered crap at three times the market price. A fine example of how fucking "different" you have to think for that scam.

@maces who said anything about whose fault stuff is?

like I said, I agree you can't customize most stuff. That's the price you pay for being an Apple user. You may or may not like that, I actually like it because I don't buy Apple hardware expecting to customize it. I'm not expecting my Mac to be comparable to a heavyset Linux workstation, because it isn't designed to be. There are things the workstation will do better, there are things the Mac will do better (powerful fanless machine with insane battery? Heck yeah sign me up). Choose based on what you need.

But for most development and technical tasks, Macs absolutely can offer you a great experience. That's all I'm saying. Also, as in my point to OP, most people don't need or want a customizable workstation.

(I'll accept that their shady repair practices are bad. That should and hopefully will change.)

But this is a different thread of conversation from what we were having before, where you were criticizing MacOS' software experience, which is what I was replying to.

Once again, feel free to hate on Apple, but let's get the facts right.

@RememberMe i don't hate apple, lol the biggest legal scam operation ever, they are doing great for themselves.

i hate the delusion upon which apple fanatics join any conversation.

Apple provides a mediocre dev experience. if you are doing serious development honestly you are much better off with a windows

@RememberMe Great battery life with powerful CPU? Well yeah, but also achieved through a display that is so small that you need an external monitor anyway for anything useful.

At that point, the battery life is moot if your application is anything other than the intended one, which is surfing the web and looking hip at Starbucks'.

@maces yes, bcmath is a php lib. What does that have to do with the OS? That's on the package management system that you're using.

Sure, making blanket statements really helps your argument. Way to go dude.

@Fast-Nop if my intentionally super-portable device had a massive screen, it wouldn't really be portable would it?And I enjoy not being confined to my desk. I use it for moving about, carrying on trips, lounging in a park, whatever. And it plugs right in to my desk setup if I need that, complete with ultrawide monitor and mechanical keyboard. Also, it does better than most other thin an light laptops, so the screen isn't the differentiating factor.

Why is it so hard to imagine that not everyone has the same use cases and therefore not the same devices that they'd like to or should be using?

@RememberMe Sure, it's super easy to transport, I'll give you that.

But if that's the actual point, i.e. transporting it while not working on it, then the battery life doesn't matter, so why would you emphasise it?

@Fast-Nop I work and/or use the laptop away from my desk too. It's not just about being able to carry it around. That's a preference of mine, supported by the nature of my work, so I'm taking advantage of it. And besides, it matches or shreds my work setup in some tasks (mainly inherently single core or <= 4 core stuff that doesn't need 20+ GB of RAM) so I'm using it even when I'm at my desk. Also yeah being able to slip it into a bag and forget that it's there is awesome.

@RememberMe The point is that there isn't that much that work that you can actually do on a tiny 13.3" display. The resolution if the display is is huge, but there's also the human eye, and if you get so close to the display that you can profit of it, then there's the human neck.

My 15.6" is bigger and has only FHD, but even with that, I already have to configure larger text in Cinnamon's accessibility options.

@RememberMe package management is the OS maker responsibility which in this case is homebrew.
when you make a statement that an OS is developer friendly yet one of the most important libraries in the php world. which is also one of the dominant languages of the web whether you like it or not, is only available in arbitrary approved versions.

this is not an issue on windows, this is not an issue on apt or pacman or any other package management on linux.
why would you unlist a version? even if that version is a cluster shit, i want it to do some security research why i can't just get it and start working instead of reinventing "recompiling" it iWheel style.

it's a cult, always your fault and forever will be.

@Fast-Nop ah yes, I'm being told how much I can't do on my laptop that I use to do stuff. It's not about optimizing one kind of thing in isolation, when deciding a system you figure out something that gives you the best overall experience. And that is entirely dependent on requirements and preferences. Which are different from person to person (13 inch screen is just fine for me for a lot of stuff, and I have a triple monitor setup for when I actually need more). In any case, this clearly boils down to subjective opinion, so not much more point here.

@maces homebrew is not an Apple project, neither are macports or nix. Chocolatey is not a Microsoft project either. And the occasional manual wrangling is hardly new for package managers, I do it all the time on Linux (yum). This is also going nowhere, so consider me out of this too.

@RememberMe
that would make the apple app store the one and only official package manager which is lacking about 80% of SDKs and other developers tools.
how does that makes it developer friendly?

again all you did is excuses "again with the cult/religion refrence" what would have been the solution?

@maces I literally don't get your point man. The app store is not a resource for tools. Homebrew/macports/nix are. They aren't built by Apple. They work great most of the time. They fuck up some times, but usually minor stuff. This is something that happens with all package managers. You're ranting about an isolated issue on one package manager, that doesn't sound like a dealbreaker to me for the entire platform. Everything that I want to run runs either natively or under Rosetta on Mac, and is usually pretty seamless. Running stuff on Mac has been easier for me than doing so under Windows because of the *nix roots that MacOS has. It's a pleasant experience.

It's not for everyone and Apple does fuck up and make terrible decisions, but for those who like the experience their devices provide, it's really nice, and they do have some really good stuff (they're not unconditionally good, but not unconditionally bad either). That is all I'm saying. Literally nothing else. I'm not claiming it's better than your favourite Linux or whatever in this sense (apart from Windows, where installing most software built for *nix is a pain and a half).