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Xamenyap
2y

Am I really unlucky, or are juniors these days all lazy af and such pampered babies that need hand holding all the time?
So back when I was a junior, when I wanted to learn something new, I would ask for some pointers from my seniors, could be an article, a video or even a book. From there I would look up further knowledge, play with the idea in my machine. If I couldn't understand something, or if I needed a better explanation of something, I would go back to my senior, but it was really rare.
Then comes this modern day, I'm the senior now and I'm in charge of mentoring a bunch of kids, who would treat me like their personal chatgpt. "Hey Junior #0, this is something you may want to read to help your next ticket, let me know if you have difficulty". Next day junior #0 would come back and say "I don't understand, the article mentioned X but I don't know how to do X. Can you show me how to do X?". Bro, no one knows how to do X after being born, just google "how to do X" and it gives you the fucking answer. Why the fuck do you have to circle back to me because of this. Junior #1 would refuse to read any articles longer than 250 words, and require constant 1-1 meetings to give him personal lectures. Dude this is not a class room, grow the fuck up! Junior #3 would write the messiest code possible despite my efforts to introduce tons of resources, then complain "why I'm still junior, how do I grow". Bro maybe if you learned half of what I sent you, you would have gotten promote by now. Fucking lazy kids these days!
Oh I can't fire these juniors. Top management was very clear that "we don't have budget to hire other devs for you, it's your responsibility to train them better".

rant

pampered babies

juniors

lazy
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Comments
  • 12
    2y
    Your company is paying for:

    Silver lining 1: Imposter syndrome treatment for you

    Silver lining 2: On the job training in soft leadership skills. Take notes and build a couple stories for future interviews. You can interview for lead positions in the future.
  • 4
    2y
    well, if they think they r still in school, u can treat them like students. give them the pointers and a fair amount of time, then let them explain to you what they learned block by block in their code. If that doesn't work u can promise them to give them pay cuts if they didn't do good the second time ( after u had pointed their weak points, even though u may not have control over that ( they may not know that ;] ) )
  • 13
    2y
    If the company is paying you to train the Juniors, and reduce your workload - then have fun with it.
    Learn how to teach. Try and understand their point of view - and guide them in the right direction.
    They need to Develop thier ability to learn on thier own.
    There will come a time when they will not have the answer, and no one to ask. Ask them how they plan to handle that secnario.

    I blame the education system btw.
  • 2
    2y
    It’s ok to be junior. I was a junior and did junior mistakes. But what sucks is when they don’t want to figure out how to solve problems on their own, which is what’s happening with OP’s juniors. Of course they shouldn’t spend too much time but at least make some attempt. If they won’t, they should probably move into a different field
  • 4
    2y
    @TeachMeCode I don't recall being treated as a junior.
    They always give me more of the hard tasks to measure my performance right away... but I've learned how to google ( what a hard task... ) and not afraid to lose a few hours ( days ) in order to get to the root of the problem or optimize and DRY the working POC, and they give me that time, so why make fast & ugly things ;}
  • 3
    2y
    And what's up with jr#2?
  • 1
    2y
    @netikras we can guess he/she is ok
  • 3
    2y
    I definitely feel like this is the case sometimes depending on the org, but I do feel like ego is also a big problem amongst devs and that we feel like people need to be less elitist. I feel like the best situation is to just say no I cannot help you thru this.
  • 2
    2y
    yeah or what @chonky-quiche is proposing. drop them in the deep and it will be up to them to learn how to swim
  • 1
    2y
    hey look, more reminders that i'm somehow overqualified for junior coding positions because...

    ...I can learn on my own? wait, you're upset about people having different methods of learning?

    don't "just google X" people, this is how chatgpt-coding happens. try actually helping the person as some people don't exactly learn very well when tossed in immediately.
  • 0
    2y
    @Parzi helping is good and all unless u r supposed to do other shit done too. That said I can spend all day helping the newbies if they will pay me the same amount or more ;p
  • 1
    2y
    Or too if u like them - make them go thru that rigorous learning process in a meeting and they will either 1) cry and regret their life decisions and never ask you again or 2) they will start to get it and actually learn to learn on their own. Never give them the answer straight up unless like it’s an internal thingy.
  • 1
    2y
    Junior #3 is the best you got (unfortunately)
  • 5
    2y
    A senior is just a junior who knows what to google.
  • 0
    2y
    ok boomer
  • 2
    2y
    @We3D that’s good! I’m glad you had that drive to learn on your own!
  • 3
    2y
    @electrineer god dammit, I've been a senior this whole time!
  • 5
    2y
    welcome to what every zoomer needs: spoon fed chatGPT style answers automatically provided while they watch tiktok videos
  • 5
    2y
    It is more likely the company you work for just hired mediocre juniors and ask you to fix their poor working ethics somehow. They should at least know how to research, have a big drive to learn and be able to discuss ideas. This is what I expect from a junior, not to know what to do right off the bat.

    Some I worked with brought new and actual useful ideas. Well there are always the average and crappy ones but it is like any employee I guess.
  • 1
    2y
    Junior #0: add a "research" subtask, along with their estimation (story points). Acceptance criteria is a short (!) presentation where they show your their plan of attack. It seems they need to learn how to divide and conquer, research and navigate the codebase.

    Junior #1: Maybe you are sending that junior too much articles or the concepts in those articles are too difficult? Constant counseling takes too much of your time: try to pair #1 with another member of your team. Be sure both understand their pair programming roles (driver/navigator) and switch every ~15 minutes.

    Junior #3: I have one of those "over enthusiastic" devs 😉 They want to become good, and they will, it just takes a little while. Try doing "live code reviews" where you do a 20-40 minute call and look over their code with them. This isn't the final review btw. Just point out obviously flaws and code smells. If they need help on how to refactor a bad solution, they will ask you.
  • 3
    2y
    maybe its each-their-own, but teaching has probably been one of the most rewarding things I've ever done.

    Huge opportunity to better learn your own trade, and sharpen communications skills. Plus you get to set the pace rather than someone else.
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