8
AL1L
2y

What's wrong with Google and Facebook selling my data, what are the effects directly affecting me from them selling my data? Why should I care that someone is making money off of something from me that doesn't affect me at all?

Putting so much effort into hiding from those companies has more negative effects then just letting them do what they're doing.

Comments
  • 4
  • 2
    @FrodoSwaggins I agree with you, but only for those who love in countries with severely corrupt governments.

    On the other hand, the big companies have no reason to impersonate or blackmail such an unimportant person such as me. And if they do I can take them to court.

    Call me evil, but I see nothing wrong in collecting information that stupid people give out without thinking about what can be done with that information.

    I myself have been swatted by someone on the internet who found my address from little info I gave out, but I place the blame for that incident 100% on me for not realising what can be done with the info I give out.

    In conclusion, they only have the information you give them. Data they get from AdWords and Google Analytics isn't enough to blackmail or impersonate me.
  • 13
    History has already shown that seemingly harmless data can become dangerous, and you can't predict whether or when.

    For example, Jews migrating to some European countries had to register with their religion. Why not, they didn't see harm with that in the early 20th century. In other European countries, that was not registered. Can you guess which option turned out to be a ticket into the gas chambers one generation later when the Nazis invaded those countries?
  • 6
    So, let’s get started.
    What’s your name?
  • 0
    @Biggy search in google and you'll find it
    Just don't post it here tho
  • 0
    Is just hoping that they won't use your information maliciously without any guarantee a good strategy to you?
  • 1
    @Biggy He has it on his homepage and Github repo. 16 years old.

    Yeah, at that age, you just don't think about future employers googling your name and having to explain away party pics on Facebook and stuff, if you even get to explain anything instead of having your application discarded silently. And you don't think about how much you need an employer for student loan, mortgage/rent, family, health insurance and your own living.

    Of course, a decent Github repo is something that you want employers to find, so that's a smart move. 16 years old and already coding for five years is impressive.
  • 1
    I use g-suite and the Google apps. Deactivated Facebook not because of privacy reasons but because of better mind.

    That being said, to answer the question you asked.

    - can you imagine yourself living in a glass wall house, with CCTVs inside and audio recorders? And those recorded videos and audios are being played and watched by some people. Ok how does that sound?

    - let's consider your parents and siblings know everything about you. Or let's say even your spouse and closed friends know every single details about you. Let's just say. Ok but then will you share all the information about you to me if let's say I'm offering you something in return? You are an unimportant person, I'm also an unimportant person. So will you consider it?
  • 0
    @cursee

    After all it's all about trust and courage/resolution.

    If you truly trust someone and sure that they won't do something harmful or take advantage of you, feel free to do whatever you want with them. And even if they harmed you, you have to be sure of yourself that you can accept their actions and deal with it.

    If you don't have a tiny bit of trust in big corporations and believe that they will take whatever action they like based on their profit... and you are sure that you will get mad angry when it happened. Then you better stay away from them or at least try to be more careful.

    Their business model is data harvesting. They are earning money from any data. Good or bad. Ugly or pretty. Important person or not. They are not earning money from your reputation.

    Just wanna share this tips. I'm not telling you to abandon them or anything :3
  • 1
    I'll comment later, @Fast-nop already brought one of my best examples to the table 😁
  • 2
    @FrodoSwaggins @Fast-Nop @cursee I would like to clarify that I'm not talking about personal data that I specifically put into a form online and sent to a website. I'm talking about data that AdWords and Google Analytics gets such as browsing patterns, those services have no clue about any of your personal information unless you specifically give it to Google.

    Of course they can do bad things with your name and address, but if you don't give it to them they will never know.

    You all completely missed my point, I agree with what you've all said, but I'm only talking about the effort people put into blocking those services on websites when they are actually very helpful to web developers.

    Maybe if they get enough browsing patterns they can get your personal info, but it's very unlikely if you never put any of your personal info online in the first place.
  • 1
    @Biggy @Fast-Nop I chose to put that info online, and that has nothing to do with my question. Read the comment above
  • 0
    @AL1L About the going to court part, how'd you do that when for example the us government wants to fuck you over for whatever reason? Using the data collected using the, for example, prism mass surveillance program. This one taps directly into google, facebook, yahoo, and some other big names.

    You could go to court when they use that data and.... Oh wait, right, it's data gathered through an illegal mass surveillance program and you can't fight that in court because it falls under national security...
  • 0
    @AL1L I just find the fact that, if I do nothing to protect myself from that data gathering, my data will enter their (and the NSA's) networks without me consenting to it, fucking rediculous.
  • 2
    @linuxxx you're right.

    No one has answered my question though, I asked it poorly at the beginning, but I have clarified.
  • 0
    @AL1L Could you re-phrase it maybe?
  • 1
    @linuxxx I did after your first comment
  • 0
    @AL1L Oh that, in that case, my comment above your "you're right one" applies :)
  • 0
    @AL1L knowing all your activities and habits except your true identify doesn't really make any difference.

    Because again they are not earning profit from your identity neither.

    I'm gonna go back to my scenarios.

    - ok you can use a full mask on 24/7 in that glass wall house with recorders. What made the difference?

    - ok you don't have to tell me your name and DOB and what not. But just tell me your favorite things, things you dislike, which places do you visit every day, which kind of people do you usually look at, are you buying any illegal things, which goods will you need soon, and so on.
  • 1
    @cursee your analogy is flawed because you have to hide yourself and the cameras are being intrusive.

    Yes they can find my age group by my browsing patterns, so what?
  • 0
    @AL1L To put it wider/bigger:

    - Google is just a company, just like your local supermarket. It should be anyone's choice whether or not their data gets in the hands of a certain company. If they collect it, at least be very honest about what's done with the data/what could happen as a side effect so that people can make an educated choice as for whether to opt in or not (this should always be opt in).

    - it's my goddamn computer (or phone etc). You're not going to run scripts on my computer without my fucking permission. "you can install an add-on to be excluded from Google analytics collection" - oh so *I* have to INSTALL something in order not to be tracked on my own goddamn device? How about no?!

    - Google (and as said, other major tech companies) is integrated within worlds biggest (and illegal) mass surveillance network ever created. By my data entering google, it enters databases form our dear NSA as well. How about no.
    And whether or not you have anything to hide, it's an *illegal* mass surveillance network. That should be enough information as for never using anything from this company.
    I've made that except for YouTube and my devrant++ subscription, I can't connect to Google at all (also blocking all Facebook/microsoft ip ranges on firewall level).
  • 1
    Alright, so, Our personal information is incredibly important, and does indeed need to be kept secure. Our info represents our lives, and in the wrong hands, can very easily ruin our life. That is a given, and protecting that kind of data is my dayjob, acknowledged. That said, and nobody has to agree with me, I personally dont mind large companies having any and all of my data, for several reasons.
    - First, these companies are built by people just like us, who might have gone a little astray, but usually have bigger goals then mass identity theft.
    - Second, I do actually see plenty of evidence where the data collected does improve my day to day use of the technology I love, from Pandora's ability to always nail what song I didn't know I wanted to listen to, to Google Assistant remembering where I parked my car without me asking.
    - Three, Should my data be abused, in such a way that effects my physical reality, I carry a .45, and have several AR-15's at home, and know how to use them.
  • 1
    While technology is evolving at a disgusting rate, the laws that keep us protected, to a fair and reasonable extent, are as well, a little to much actually, the idea of this information being abused scares just about everyone, and as such just about everyone will and does join for the common cause of ensuring their data is protected. Its going to be messy, and it is going to be very complicated, but it will be alright.
  • 1
    @linuxxx
    - I'm also saying that, you are the one who chooses to give out info.

    - they don't install anything on your computer. if they do, prove it

    - do you really think you're that special that the NSA is going to track you down and do something to you. If so start a militia like they did in the 1700s and overthrow the corrupt government.

    You're just paranoid
  • 1
    Why do you people think these large companies will hurt you with the information they collect. They will do anything to keep you on their side and keep you safe so that they keep getting your data and your money
  • 1
    Ok, let's say I get a new house, a new laptop and I never sign in to any of my old accounts online (for the sake of argument I'm a completely new person on the internet)

    Im on the internet watching YouTube going internet things, but I never enter my personal info anywhere on any site, maybe I use an email that has no trace to my actual name.

    The internet has the following info on me: my email, what type of YouTube videos I watch, maybe that I go on stack overflow and codepen.

    Google and Facebook use scripts placed on websites to get this data and in exchange give web developers analytics about how users use their site. Then those companies use that data for targeted ads and maybe sell it to other companies so they can do whatever.

    Tell me how this info can negatively affect me. Don't give me bullshit like they're looking through my camera or listening to my microphone because that can easily be disproven by opening Wireshark.
  • 1
    @AL1L

    What's wrong with Google and Facebook selling my data,

    - If you know that fact and fine with it, nothing wrong.

    what are the effects directly affecting me from them selling my data?

    - Not much, except one fact that selling your data is not the end of process. Selling means there is someone buying that data. And why do they buy?

    - Effects you will directly receive will be from those buyers. Giving your information is only the first step of the whole process.

    Why should I care that someone is making money off of something from me that doesn't affect me at all?

    - So according to my above answer, you cannot say that it doesn't affect you.
  • 0
    @cursee

    And to answer your example about using YT with fresh start internet life.

    - google will knows what videos you like based on your activities/data.

    - It will show you the things they think you like.

    - And gradually it will show you the things they think you would like.

    - Eventually, you are not the one browsing it. You are the consumer watching what it shows to you.

    To sum up, I am gonna say what I already answered in my first set of comments.

    It all comes down to whether you trust them or not.

    If you trust them, then carry on and use them.

    But there are some people who won't trust their data with them.

    There are also people who would want to make own decisions instead of algorithmic spoon-feed ones.
  • 1
    @cursee it's almost like you didnt read any of my other comments
  • 0
    Just imagine the flak Mahatma Gandhi would suffer from if he was alive and online these days !
  • 0
    I'm reminded of companies that will scrape data from newspaper articles and use it for commercial purposes.
  • 1
    @cursee Your responses are actually appropriate, the biggest issue I think in this form of fear generated around big data is the fact that alot of the users actually don't understand what and that their data is being collected, sold, and used to target experiences at them. The biggest thing I notice is that the majority of people that do understand this, seem to fear for those that don't understand it, or simply don't care. That along with trusting companies who's services we use as you mention, are the biggest points of "concern", and those people seem to want to force fear of big data on those who don't understand it. It is fallacy.
  • 0
    @FrodoSwaggins I want to note that countries that abuse data like that are far and few, and shrinking in number fast.
  • 1
    @Fast-Nop I don't particularly like that you decided to use his age as a factor of your argument.
  • 0
    @Alice if you and OP wanna do literal interpretation, I have not much to response. 🤷‍♂️

    I gave a similar example.

    I wanted to give the cookie example like they did on one of Mozilla's IRL podcasts. But then they already did that there, so I created one on my own.

    It's not about the corporate knowing who you are in real life. It's all about what you do and how you do. To the big corps, Obama, Jackie Chan, street hooker from third world country or devRant user Cursee make no difference. All they are interested in is what's our interests and habits and how can they utilize it for their profit.

    Yeah maybe video record tracking is taking things a tad far but audio tracking is coming up with all the Personal Assistant apps and devices from big corps.

    I am not trying to scare people off with "fake stories". I am explaining things using analogies and examples that I can come up with the best.
  • 0
    @irene well if we are trying to pick the correct terms like we are answering our final exams yeah sure. But I think we all know what OP was asking.
  • 0
    @irene ok that I can agree.

    But if we put a tin foil hat, maybe both FB and google are selling data without outsiders knowledge :3 huehuehue
  • 0
    @Alice

    Do you think that google may know

    - what things (from clothes to cars) you own
    - how many times a day you do which activities (time you go to work, time you watch media, etc)
    - your hobbies and activities (drawing, playing instruments, etc)

    ?
  • 0
    @Alice nah if this is really a thread about "data selling" I'm out lol. I don't like tin foil hat 😁

    My previous comment was replying to your comment about my scenario 😛
  • 0
    @Alice if you think Google knows that extent, what difference does it have from my glass house example
    :3

    Imagine I live in a glass house, everyone interested in me can easily know what I own and what I do.
  • 0
    @Alice 😣 ok then I'm gonna correct my scenario and put the glass house in google campus 😏
  • 2
    @AL1L and anyone else who thinks it's harmless

    Personally, I am worried about 20 years from now and how this illegally mass collected data could be used.

    Unfortunately some people have racists views, some believes people from "x" part of the world are all criminals, or people with "y" belief are all wrong. It's not far fetch for these kind of people to become the leader of the greatest military force on earth any more. This is historically (very recently in the second world war) and even now true.

    The unfortunate truth is that these people have in the past and will in the future force private entities to collaborate with them.

    The problem is that a seemingly harmless set of data which you believe is completely unrelated to your personal identity can be tracked to you as a single individual.

    ...
  • 0
    ...Just to give you an idea of how this can be tracked, look at the amiunique.org website - without any plugins, it tells "0.68 % of observed browsers are Chrome 71.0, as yours."

    Combine this with how you move my mouse in the browser - yeah there are scripts for that - how you type, what domains you visit (dns 8.8.8.8 + google analytics) - your ip address and behaviors, what time of day you visit them in what order, how long does it take you to read an article, your gps or public ip address locations etc...

    Even now you can be uniquely identified, let alone someone in 10-20 years with far more capable machines and algorithms wants to identify you and then decides that because your views differs from them (say because you were part of the devRant community and 10% of the people from this community were bad actors), you need to be imprisoned or worse
  • 1
    @Alice how is it unrealistic, historically, it happened on large scale in the last century twice. People were riled up because of economical hardships combined with nationalism ideologies which were pointed at certain minority groups.

    Now we also have very similar atmosphere in the first world countries. Look at the current state of affairs. Is it so difficult to see how these data WILL be used if it is not prevented at this time when we CAN actually prevent it?
  • 1
    @Alice hey stop promoting Terminator 6 :3
  • 0
    @Alice Nice and sarcastic comments. The control of data, media and information, tracking out spoken people, is something that is happening in many countries right now, instances of it are north korea, china, russia, iran, saudi arabia. They find people who post public critics, exile, imprison or hang them right now.

    The landscape of freedom of speech in many of these countries was VERY different 30-40 years ago.

    It is not a far fetch idea that the same thing will happen in a few decades in some of the first world countries. It is quite likely that it will happen IF people stay ignorant to how their information will be used.
  • 1
    > AI will take over the world

    I thought it already had..

    Look at cats, they have taken over the world, we look after them, feed them, house them, and don't ask them to work !

    Becoming the same with computers, we look after them, feed them, house them, though we do ask them to work..

    Seems like we are infected with various parasites..
  • 1
    @Nanos into the Matrix we go 🕺

    I know that I'm the chosen one 😏
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  • 1
    @Alice what if I found it already and am just pretending I didn't 😏
  • 0
    @Alice 😮😯🙁😟😞
  • 2
    @Aeternum "I don't particularly like that you decided to use his age as a factor of your argument."

    Yeah, using personal data is not nice, we all know this.. oh wait. ;-)
  • 3
    @AL1L well for one, I don't use a separate computer for browsing and shopping, partly also because I need to research before I even can buy something. Second, I think that Google is smart enough to pretty much figure out who you are, and if they don't already use browser fingerprinting in combination with geo IP and stuff, they at least store the data to evaluate that later.

    Google analytics may be helpful for webmasters, but not for me. If they wanted to help me, they could start by not making 4 MB websites for 2 kB text. So I block all of this in uBlock. Nice side effect, the web is much faster with a decent blocker.

    Tracking can even directly cost you money. Proven e.g. with flight bookings - if you do too much research, that directly raises the ticket price displayed to you.
  • 1
    Well I guess its my fault that this rant got so off topic, I didn't ask it correctly and I tried clarifying several times but it seems that no one reads and understands it all before coming up with an argument to something completely unrelated.

    If I could lock the rant from more comments I would
  • 1
    @FrodoSwaggins the only one who understood and answered my question is @Alice
  • 1
    @FrodoSwaggins no she did not give the answer I wanted, she actually changed my mind. You all answered the wrong question and come up with analogies that had nothing to do with what I was trying to ask.

    @linuxxx also somewhat answered my question, but still went off topic.

    Stop acting like you can read my mind.
  • 1
    @FrodoSwaggins sorry for the confusion
  • 0
    @AL1L

    - When your data is collected by a company without you knowing by default, I'm not giving much consent.

    - no, they don't but if I want to be excluded, I have to install an addon.
    Source: googles general data collection/consent popup.

    - it's entirely irrelevant whether or not I'm interesting, have you read my earlier comment at all?

    - search for the definition of paranoia and then come back.
  • 4
    Oh and as for concrete examples:

    - Cambridge analytica: data was actually used for the election in a way that's illegal.
    - a few weeks ago it came out that quite some companies have unrestricted access to Facebook user data. (this isn't allowed without explicit consent from users)
    - Activists targeted 'acidentally' by GCHQ.
    - Quantum Insert attack launched on network engineers + one of worlds biggest cyber security expert.
    - Googles google+ kept a huge security leak silent through which people using the api could get all google+ data of a user.

    I don't even want to know what more could happen.
  • 0
    @linuxxx alot of this is stated as fact, but fact checking results in alot of tabloid articles. Sources?
  • 1
    @Aeternum I can't find anything as quickly anymore on the gchq thingy too badly, I'll do some more searching.

    Except for that:
    Facebook's most recent scandal: (the unrestricted data access):
    https://fossbytes.com/facebook-gave...

    Cambridge analytics scandal: any search engine, if you missed that while being on the Internet around april/may this year, you've been living under a stone. Anyhow:
    Just one source of the first page of search results on ddg: https://nytimes.com/2018/03/...

    Quantum insert attack: (it was Bruce schneier who wrote a lot about it but not the one who got hacked through that method, apologies)
    https://gigaom.com/2014/02/...

    The Google one isn't rocket science to find:
    https://duckduckgo.com//...
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