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linuxxx
77d

"Oh no this platform is serverless"

I hate this "serverless" term.

How does a cloud platform run serverless?

HOW?!

"yeah but like we don't have to run updates and manage the underlying stuff and can thus deploy stuff serverless"

NO.

THERE ARE ACTUAL SERVERS RUNNING IN ORDER TO RUN THIS PLATFORM.

YOU CANT RUN THIS FUCKING PLATFORM WITHOUT ACTUAL SERVERS.

HOW WOULD IT RUN THEN, ON FUCKING STARDUST?!

IT. IS. NOT. SERVERLESS. AS. LONG. AS. SERVERS. ARE. INVOLVED. AT. SOME. LEVEL.

Comments
  • 77
    Server-transparent might have been a better term for this kind of stuff
  • 81
    The term makes fucking zero sense and I, too, hate it. It's even worse than the hoverboards that don't hover or pitiless grapes ffs
  • 35
    On demand instant boot servers 😏
  • 29
    The point, as the client said, is that they don't have to take care of the underlying server. All they have to work with is the actual code they're running.
    (Of course, if they actually think that there is *no server* at all, that's a completely different thing, and it's complete nonsense).
  • 25
    @endor Oh I know the point, just saying that I hate that term as its factually incorrect in the context of any kind of hosting.
  • 7
    "Having to configure your virtual instance or configure the PAAS"-less is so awkward to say, though.
  • 35
    Serverless, now with 10% more cloud!
  • 4
    No wait guys I'm ignorant... what does "serverless" actually mean?
  • 14
    @dmonkey you give the cloud "thing" some code, when it receives a reqest it spins up something like a vm (but not really) with your code and handles the request "statelessly"
  • 1
    @dmonkey just google for example azure functions
  • 1
    @epse So does it mean that you send a request with some "code" to be executed? (Don't mean ACTUAL code)
  • 1
    @KDSBest yeah I forgot the most trivial thing to do lol
  • 1
    @dmonkey yes indeed
  • 6
    could you call it serverless if it was decentralized? like peer to peer stuff 🤔
  • 2
    Wait, but, is it a serverless container cloud cluster? If not, we might just as well all go back to the ‘90s and get everyone a dedicated server

    - your customer
  • 8
    Gotta thank the marketing folks for that I guess.. I don't see how the hell on-demand service makes it serverless all of a sudden. It's a nice way to host, sure because there's a ton of time in which servers are just idling. No reason to keep them on during those time periods if you can help it. But the name they gave it is so misleading.
  • 9
    You'd really expect "serverless" to imply peer-to-peer, but no.

    IMO It's not a well though-out term, considering what it describes.
  • 5
    they should've just kept calling it a cloud :(
  • 5
    what if it ran on a laptop? Does this count as Server-less?

    *Leaves universe for own safety*

    Jokes aside, it should be sort of service-less, since you just write functions to do your work instead of writing a full service to handle the heavy lifting
  • 3
    @gitpush I guess that depends if the laptop is being used as a server or not.
  • 6
    @C0D4 I thought you'd figure it out, you see OP is linuxxx = huge fan of Microsoft = laptop must be running Windows 8 cuz that's his most favorite version, or else he won't maintain it
  • 7
    @gitpush so we have a windows server running on a linuxxx laptop which in its self is not a server doing server work 🤭
    God damn, it's a serverless server.
  • 3
    @C0D4 Exactly, not sure why linuxxx is mad about it .-.
  • 10
    MicroVMs.

    I actually like the AWS term "Lambdas" as well, as it's a shortlived stateless function with input and output.
  • 4
    Wait so now cloud == serverless

    So someone basically just decided to remember a variable?
  • 5
    Serverless is serverless like WiFi is wireless.

    There's still stuff running in the background. Everyone knows that. Stop complaining about semantics and start taking implementation.
  • 10
    @polaroidkidd As long as it annoys me to death and is factually not true, I'll fucking rant about it.
  • 1
    It's your fault for understanding what they meant by "serverless". Now you're stuck with it. LMAO.
  • 1
    Serverless means somebody else's server. Still a server involved. Sigh.
  • 3
    @oreru That would be a better term than serverless partly because the marketing folks would have difficulty pronouncing it :)
  • 3
    @billgates

    There's a difference.

    In the past, companies used to manage their own server hardware, often in their own office building.

    "Cloud" refers to any hosting of application/assets outside of your own company, usually with hardware managed by a service provider (like AWS). You click a button with your favorite server OS, get SSH login details, install some packages, set up a database, etc.

    "Serverless" tends to mean you upload a piece of code or give it a repo name, and don't manage anything. It's often advertised together with rapid automatic scaling, and is often targeted especially towards small microservices which don't have special requirements. This code often needs to be stateless as well, or will need to persist data through other APIs.
  • 1
    @bittersweet Wait that sounds like .... whats the name... can't remember the name... all I remember is needing to spin up Dinos...
  • 3
    Makes sense to me.

    Serverless == less pain from server management
  • 0
    @ReverendLovejoy except there’s not less pain, you still have to manage servers, and your arse catches fire
  • 1
    @xalys someone else manages them?
  • 1
    @ReverendLovejoy not if you’re a sysadmin like me
  • 4
    @ReverendLovejoy This is what I get anal about when people get anal about the term being incorrect. I figure it makes sense in terms of server management being completely removed from my domain of responsibility.

    PaaS is arguably serverless as well, but I'd still need to develop and maintain my app that serves some trivial atomic function. I'm fine with calling AWS lambda or Azure functions serverless because I just toss my function in there without having to develop or maintain the platform to serve it.

    It's like tabs vs. spaces though. I'm not stubborn about which is correct, I just enjoy the bantz.
  • 1
    I think a quick googling will enlighten you.
    Server less does not mean servers don't exist or are not used.

    Analog to knowing that "the cloud" does not mean you store your files on real clouds among angels.
  • 4
    @mundo03 Don't wanna speak for @linuxxx, but he knows, obviously. He just hates the use of "serverless", but he already showed the people he works with that he understands what they mean when they say that word, hence, he's stuck with it.
  • 3
    "Oh no! Our serverless platform is broken at the server level! Quick! Call the server maintenance team in Dallas!"

    -- Troubleshooting server issues on a "Serverless" platform
  • 4
    @mundo03 Oh I know. I've worked with servers for 9 years and been working as a Linux engineer for 1,5 years but its just the term I hate as its factually incorrect.

    You can't run a cloud service without servers, period.
  • 3
    @mundo03 The reason why @linuxxx and many others are pissed off by the term is because the term itself (serverless, server-less, without server), is very different from what it actually means (server resources managed entirely by the hosting provider).
  • 2
  • 5
    @Condor @linuxxx
    I get it, but I also read a bit and kind of makes sense.
    Severeless in the sense of now worrying about the server, from the developer perspective.

    You have to understand this is a commercial aproach, the idea they are selling is apealing for developers and companias with no Linux Engineers or Devops.

    Of course someone has to make the serverless architecure run on servers, but that will happen on a provider (like Amazon) This is pure marketing, just like the cloud.
  • 2
    @xalys On Freenode, that would be me :)
  • 3
    Should be called FaaS.. as in functions as a service, as in Fuckshit as a Service
  • 0
    Dyslexia man, shit will get ya. #lessservers
  • 1
    @linuxxx I'd argue that it's technically correct since "serverless" implies that there is "less server" not "no server"

    And that's what it is. Less server administration. Not no server administration.

    Same with "Wireless" come to think of it. Less wires. Not no wires.
  • 2
    @polaroidkidd when I buy a cordless drill I expect a drill with a battery and no cord instead of one with only a short cable. And the dictionary also says, that the suffix "- less" means "without"

    https://macmillandictionary.com/dic...
  • 1
    @undaunted how do you charge a cordless drill?
  • 2
    @polaroidkidd by putting it in the charging station, which has a plug directly attached to it, without a cord ;)
  • 0
    The entire cordless drill hangs on the charger??? Isn't that a bit heavy on the outlet?

    Btw, I'm thinking about drills used to drill holes in walls, not smaller hand held drills.

    Either way, I can see that we'll have to agree to disagree on the whole "X-less" subject matter and leave it at that.
  • 1
    @polaroidkidd 3pedantic5me
    Cordless drills don't have cords during operation. And during charging there's a cord involved for charging just the battery. Cordless, you can take it somewhere where there's no outlet. Serverless, you can run your service without a server? Until you call the server and whoopty doo, there's a server!
  • 0
    @Condor Ah! But by that same token:

    Can you run your wireless without any wires?
  • 0
    @polaroidkidd never had an issue with it 🤔
  • 1
    @polaroidkidd although I have to say that the cordless drill analogy is fairly similar to the serverless service in terms of this here argument. Internally, there are wires in the drill that connect the battery contacts, the confuzer, the switch, the mosfets, the motor and such together. Just like the serverless service does have a server internally. But just like the cordless drill doesn't have any wires going to it as far as the user is concerned, the serverless service doesn't have any servers as far as the developer is concerned. How does it do its work? JFM.

    Generally speaking, marketing gotta market I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • 0
    @Condor I meant, can you run a wireless router without wires?
  • 1
    @polaroidkidd give me a Linux box, 2 wireless adapters and I'll sprinkle some Linux-fu on it to make it happen :3

    Never mentioned that it had to be an internet to home network router either. Just routing from internal network to internal network? For a sysadmin like yours truly, easy 🙃 Linux' networking stack doesn't really care about what drives the physical layer after all, as long as it gets the job done.

    Maybe we should go back to cordless drills? I'm fairly initiated in electronics as well, but admittedly less so than in sysadmin 😊
  • 1
    @Condor :D:D ok ok I concede!

    Btw, is that drill strong enough to drill holes in walls for heavy mirrors (for example)? I was looking at some more heavy-duty cordless drills but they were stupidly expensive!
  • 1
    @polaroidkidd nah this is a light-duty one. Kinda like that craptacular Ikea drill that AvE reviewed in one of his vidjeos, except looking more like a transformer, this one. No issues with wood, plastic, thin aluminium (electronics enclosures etc), or drywall. But for anything harder than that, I doubt that this thing would suffice. Does the job for me at home and it drives screws too, so I wouldn't bother spending a week's income on a proper one. But YMMV of course.
  • 1
    @Condor ah ok. Cheers for the heads up! See you around ;)
  • 0
    Well it's serverless from the developers point of view. Obviously it runs on someone's hardware but who cares, you don't have to worry about it.
  • 1
    It’s the same issue we get with TLS certificated being marketed as SSL certificates

    It’s a marketing term that is overly generalised and dumbed down
  • 0
    @BeverageBear To be fair, it is essentially the same thing there.
  • 1
    Just like "unlimited data" is not unlimited.
  • 2
    Disturbingly anal rant. How do you manage to not rage quit every day when faced with any marketing terminology?
  • 5
    @LynxMagnus I got an unlimited data plan in Switzerland (4G) and wanted to see when they'd cap it. So I started running my torrents over it (which ran faster than my WLAN because at the time one of their antenna was outside my house).

    After 250gb I gave up. I called them and flat out asked. The guy said "ah you're the user with that massive data amount. We've been having a pot running! Please tell me you've been torrenting!"

    I told him I've been torrenting (strictly speaking not illegal in CH).

    "Sweet! You just made me a bunch of money! Anyway what can I help you with?"

    Asked on him about the may data plan and he confirmed my worst fears.

    They actually meant "unlimited". My life was in tatters. A company telling the truth!? What will this lead to?? ACCOUNTABLE POLITICIANS!?
  • 3
    Let's rename that serverless thingy into "popup servers": they popup in an instant and they fuck right off once done (or timed out for the most talented of us).
  • 1
    @tme520 I like that idea. Judging by how Heroku seems to be doing their little Dyno thingies, that looks about right.. pops up when a request comes in, pops out after apparently half an hour over there 🙂
  • 1
  • 0
    couldn't agree more
  • 1
    @Linuxxx I agree! Serverless is incorrect.
    However if I take a look at the programmers side of things, there ist very little he has to be concerned of the infrastructur.

    Almost in a matter where it might seem serverless to him.
    Event though we shuold all remember that the Cloud ist just someone elses computer
  • 0
    @polaroidkidd Buy yourself a Makita Or Dewalt cordless drill if you want heavier duty.
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