stupid react fucks, they upgraded webpack to 5 which breaks being able to access process.env

good thing you can't access the webpack config to fix it!

essentially this "wise decision" by the team makes this entire docs page WRONG: https://create-react-app.dev/docs/...

'Checks copyright at bottom' aah yes I understand the idiots 🤡🤡

lol you guys use react in 2022?

@kiki qwik is next new thing to use

@Grumm allow me to introduce Web Components — a part of the language itself that, by the very nature, is here to stay. No webpack, no frameworks, no build systems needed.

@kiki But that isn't new... Who wants to use ancient stuff when you have react and overpriced node servers to host shit ?

That's the problem with getting married to a framework. Static server-side generated HTML with vanilla JS enhancements is universal and not affected by this trouble.

Every day, I am vindicated more and more in my decision to flee from js frameworks with all haste. The idea of relying on blackbox nightmares that change based on the whims of flavor of the week developers is terrifying.

@kiki I tried Lit on your recommendation, I'm sure it will be an awesome framework in 2025, but in 2022 you get either SSR or routing.

Oh yeah and custom components by themselves solve none of the problems component frameworks solve so stop recommending them. You can do encapsulation by just wrapping your imperative DOM building logic in a function.

They solve one problem which none of the existing component frameworks do, which is style encapsulation, and I found that in the real world this is very rarely desirable in the way they solve it, that is, absolute and impossible to bypass except by copying styles down into the shadow trees.

The lack of build tools isn't a benefit, it's a liability. It means that you're forced to manually encode your intent according to an interoperability standard. Babel didn't just give us eternal IE5 support, it also gave us instant access to upcoming(!) ES standards, and a convenient way to tie in the basic capabilities of a programming language that this particular interoperability standard doesn't support, such as automatically verifiable type annotations.

CRA is a toy, consider this basic feature, and the countless others it can never support because of bad architecture and a general disinterest in webpack: https://github.com/facebook/...

Vite does everything you could expect from CRA and more, and configuring large sets of extensions is so simple I don't even remember the experience.

"Rollup will get old and clunky as well and won't adapt to the expectations of the future" probably, but webpack is already old and clunky, and doesn't adapt to the expectations of the present. The only tradeoff I see here is between fond memories and utility.

@exerceo accurate. We have to remember where things like react came from. They were often someone’s audition to move from senior engineer to staff engineer. A flex, a corporate flex at that.

@Grumm it's actually doubly hilarious as they haven't even updated it to say "Meta" 😂

disfunctional

Lots of the classic "no framework" trope in this thread... enjoy accomplishing absolutely nothing while you tinker around building what will anyway end up as some sort of pseudo framework that only you and your team know... that is, unless all you do all day is build static landing pages then yeah sure.

I'm a solo SaaS app engineer. Frameworks help me finish the job in days instead of tooling around for years trying to be "cool"

@fullstackclown No reason for engineering to get tangled up in Zuck's fever dream.

@lorentz fine, don't use react, but saying "all frameworks bad" is useless

@fullstackclown I use React.

Vite is a bundler and dev server, like Weboack, except it has ootb support for Typescript, an array of frameworks including React, Sass, static assets and a host of other standard features that require lots of manual configuration and 3rd party plugins in Weboack.

@lorentz Still some are very confusing.

I tried Gatsby... All I want is an easy SSG deploy option. But what the hell... Even in the docs they don't explain it easily. I don't care to host it on netlify or github pages or Azure... I want to just put everything on my cheap Apache server... Why is it so hard to do that ?

@cuddlyogre join our cult of vanillajs/html5/css3 usage then.

@max19931 Believe me. I'm a cofounder of that cult.