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Search - "html table website"
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rant? rant!
I work for a company that develops a variety of software solutions for companies of varying sizes. The company has three people in charge, and small teams that each worked on a certain project. 9 months ago I joined the company as a junior developer, and coincidentally, we also started working on our biggest project so far - an online platform for buying groceries from a variety of vendors/merchants and having them be delivered to your doorstep on the same day (hadn't been done to this scale in Estonia yet). One of the people from management joined the team working on that. The company that ordered this is coincidentally being run by one of the richest men in Estonia. The platform included both the actual website for customers to use, a logistics system for routing between the merchants, the warehouse, and the customers, as well as a bunch of mobile apps for the couriers, warehouse personnel, etc. It was built on Node.js with Hapi (for the backend stuff), Angular 2 (for all the UIs, including the apps which are run through a WebView wrapper), and PostgreSQL (for the database). The deadline for the MVP we (read: the management) gave them, but we finished it in about 7 months in a team of five.
The hours were insane, from 10 AM to 10 PM if lucky. When we weren't lucky (which was half of the time, if not more), we had to work until anywhere from 12 PM to 3 AM, sometimes even the whole night. The weekends weren't any better, for the majority of the time we had to put in even more extra hours on the weekends. Luckily, we were paid extra for them, but the salary was no way near fair (the majority of the team earned about 1000€/mo after taxes in a country where junior developers usually earn 1500€/month). Also because of the short deadline given to us, we skipped all the important parts like writing tests, doing CI, code reviews, feature branching/PR's, etc. I tried pushing the team and the management to at least write tests and make feature branches/PRs, but the management always told me that there wasn't enough time to coordinate and work on all that, that we'll do that after launching the MVP, etc. We basically just wrote features, tested them by hand, and pushed into the "test" branch which would later get tested and merged into master.
During development, one of the other juniors managed to write the worst kind of Angular code you could imagine - enormous amounts of duplication, no reusable components (every view contained the everything used in the view, so popups and other parts that should logically be reusable were in every view separately), fuck - even the HTML was broken (the most memorable for me were the "table > tr > div > td" ones, but that's barely scratching the surface). He left a few months into the project, and we had to build upon his shit, ever so slightly trying to fix the shit he produced. This could have definitely been avoided if we did code reviews.
A month after launching the MVP for internal testing, the guy working on the logistics system had burned out and left the company (he's earning more than twice the salary he got here, happy for him, he is a great coder and an even better team player). This could have been avoided if this project had been planned better, but I can't really blame them, since it was the first project they had at this scale (even though they had given longer deadlines for projects way smaller than this).
After we finished and launched the MVP, the second guy from management joined, because he saw we needed extra help. Again I tried to push us into investing the time to write tests for the system (because at this point we had created an unstable cluster fuck of a codebase), but again to no avail. The same "no time, just test it manually for now, we'll do that later when we have time" bullshit from management.
Now, a few weeks ago, the third guy from management joined. He saw what a disaster our whole project was. Him joining was simply a blessing from the skies. He started off by writing migrations using sequelize. I talked to him about writing tests and everything, and he actually listened. He told me that I'm gonna be the one writing them, and also talked to the rest of management about it. I was overjoyed. I could actually hear the bitterness in the voices of the rest of management when they told me how to write the tests, what to test, etc. But I didn't give a flying rat's ass, I was hapi.
I was told to start off by writing a smoke test for the whole client flow using Puppeteer. I got even happier, since I was finally able to again learn new things (this stopped at about 4 or 5 months into the project).
I'm using jest as the framework and started writing the tests in TypeScript. Later I found a library called jest-extended, but it didn't have type defs, so I decided to write them and, for the first time in my life, contribute to the open source community.19 -
S = Some person I know
Me = Me
S: Hey, I heard you also do [software/web development].. I was hoping to get some advice from you about some advanced level HTML and CSS for my classes.
//or that if I could teach him something
Me: What do you study?
S: Oh, I teach.
Me: 😯 Really? What do you teach?
S: Oh, just some basic HTML and CSS with Notepad to about 50-60 students.
Me: (;﹏;) That's great.
/*this is a shortened version of a very long conversation*/
They teach some basic HTML and CSS like <table> and <marquee> and stuff. They also teach C++ and Tally ERP.
Also, he and some other person made their small intuitions' website but they don't know how to put it online. They made it in, as far as I understand, simple HTML and CSS USING NOTEPAD (Don't know if they used JS or something else). That's.. really courageous or something... ? I don't know, I couldn't have a look at it because they have it on their local computer and don't know what Git is.
I showed him some better alternatives and ways that they could use (editors, version control, db, etc.) to improve their curriculum and answered his questions, and I told him that I'll try to help in any way I can if they ever need me.
This also made me realize how much I've learned and grown since I first started learning C in school. Still, I've got so much more that I need and want to learn.
//Always keep learning
😊
PS. What would you've told him if you had been in my place?1 -
The moment when a client asks to make a website responsive which was developed in earlier 2000. You open the code and its using HTML table structures.4
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I had this weird dream(emphasis on dream)
I was in a resort in bali waiting for my drinks and this cute girl comes over to my table.
Me : omg finally i can get a girlfriend
Me : hello beautiful
Her : hey i have this problem with my website *shows the messed up site with no divisions/containers * "can you fix this?"
Me : okay ;_;
PS : i started learning css, html and 2 other web technologies a week ago, and this is already happening to me, should i quit?5 -
This fucking teacher was my "Web Design" teacher in high school.
Okay, yes, I acknowledge that this is an entry level course, but does that honestly mean that we need to teach the same source taught to students in the 90s? You know, the one where all layouts are table/iframe-based?
I understand that I completely disregarded your set criteria for grading by using CSS to create my website rather than tables and I frames, however I believe that it's fairly logical to conclude that anyone using CSS has a sufficient comprehension of HTML to be able to pass your stupid assignments. So why must time be wasted with coding poorly designed sites? -
My first project, ever, was a very unproud thing that was developed...
A little detail - I was 12 back then.
So, a distant family member had a business of selling things that they brought to the country. They, of course, needed a website and my parents knew that I had some skills in development so suggested them my services.
Discussion started and well, what came out was this:
1. They need a site with items list.
2. It had no actual design plans, no actual requirements, just a list.
3. Oh. It had to work perfectly on IE4 or IE5 (can't remember).
So what was actually done, was a site full of divs, clearfixes and so buggy that opening in any other browser than IE - resulted in a total failure.
We have sat down and I, with all the respect told them that my skills are not sufficient to make all of the browsers work equally (I've been on HTML/CSS for more than 6 months back then. And all of it was after school). They calmed me down and said that it's ok, they can give me as much time as I need to figure things out. Yet, my English wasn't good back then so I couldn't... (I was 12, with 3 years of basic English as a non-native speaker).
We sat around the table, discussed what could be done and if I could investigate that and re-do when I'm fully ready. I agreed. The site was launched for IE only as it worked fine and others were just throwing an error to visit it with IE.
They were happy, people were using it and they didn't say that anything was bad. Of course, management was thru FTP and editing LIVE files because, well, no php, no control panels, nothing... I felt ashamed that the site wasn't what they wanted but they were ultra happy with it - first customers rolled in from there. They paid me around 60EUR at that time (it was ~12 years ago) and I've spent a month there. (minimum monthly wage here was around 90-120EUR at that time...
So, all in all, this project that I still think I failed - pushed me to the world of devs and... I've never regretted it. Of course, when I actually met with them after years - they have dropped the site as it was not needed anymore but they said that it was exactly what they needed and there was nothing wrong, even if it didn't work perfectly.2 -
10 years ago my bosses came to me: Make a few adjustments to the logic of this website. Should be a quick thing they said. Got a zip file later. Hundreds of php files. Inside, thousands of lines of the best PHP/HTML Spaghetti I've ever seen. No CSS though, but lots of nested table layouts. The best part: everything was in french, content, comments, varnames. The original dev didn't use includes for the most repetitive stuff, even db credentials were copied in every file. Took me a week.
Two weeks later: Change that and that please....
We decided to write everything from scratch then. -
"learning" html and css
So, there are these courses in my school, "ÜK" ("Überbetriebliche Kurse") we call them.
It's 5 days, a Tuesday to Thursday, next week Tuesday and Wednesday, last day in the afternoon we have a test.
Today is that Wednesday
I know html and css pretty well, so if was pretty easy, I didn't even bother to do some of the tasks we had
I did look through the book over the weekend to make sure I knew my stuff right
Now, the theoretical part of the test had stuff like "colspan" witch was nowhere to be seen in the book and PowerPoints, and some stuff was just unclear as fuck, seriously...
*looks up colspan*
Apparently it's a table cell that spans two columns, or more, if you want to
I never needed something like that, and we never looked at it, that's why I didn't know about it.
There where other unclear questions as well, so I went to the teacher after the test and told him.
He gave me an empty test where I made an X for stuff that wasn't in the book or the PowerPoints and wrote a bit for the stuff that was unclear.
I did know some more then some in the class, so I generally xed the stuff that we didn't learn
The teacher will correct it accordingly, and cut out the questions that we couldn't have known.
So that's at least something
For the next class, he's going to have some "theoretical learning" or whatever he called it
I mean, in the end it's fair, but it annoys me that these courses aren't as well thought out as they should be...
So after this course I can say:
I DIDN'T LEARN A FUCKING THING
Btw, the second part was changing a website up the way its telling you to, that was easier the the theoretical part, witch was ticking the right fucking box...undefined html & css grade stupid questions fuck lack of examples get your shit together css html fuck this shit know-what-youre-talking-about theory is bullshit fuck learning5 -
Ok story number 2, this one takes place back when I was at Uni.
We had a group project where we had to make a basic website. Nothing fancy, just basic HTML/CSS/JS.
We were a group of 3, one of the guys did a fairly good job with the CSS, he made a really good looking banner/footer and a kind of ‘featured’ page which looked awesome.
But the other guy... his contribution was the ‘contact us’ page, which consisted of a totally static table with dummy info and an embedded Google map showing the location of our fake car dealership.
Meanwhile I wrote all the Javascript, complete with a fake in-memory database containing our car data for displaying on the home page. Even had basic filtering. I made sure to mention in the peer review that I felt like he could have done more. -
The fuckers that made my university’s website are absolutely fuckin trash. I’m trying to make a program that gets the page and creates lists with the names of professors and some more info and i fuckin can’t because they are retarded.
How bad can you be that you cant even fuckin create a simple html table with their fuckin names in it so when i scan it i fuckin get a name of a professor and an email of a different one attached to it. FUCK OFF2