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@nonox The first WTF is that a dev is doing QA at all. Testing and QA should always be done with independence, and ideally even with different management reporting lines.
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@Fast-Nop That seems unrealistic for small companies or even larger companies with small software development departments.
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@Maer Agreed.
When we started out doing development on my former job we where 2 devs handling everything.
Design, development, qa, customer support, devops (was not really called that back then but …).
A separate qa was not part of the team until about 2 years later when we had enough customers to warrant the cost.
My main question is, what do they mean by a real dev? :)
It sure as hell is not defined by any education :P, but what you do and know. And especially the know is a lot harder to judge.
I have seen well payed code writers that I would not call devs since they actually do not develop, they just write code others have told them to, without much understanding of what it does.
Are they devs? … in some sense sure, but not a good one :)
Personally I have in total less than one year of real education in programming, but I fo have 41 years of experience doing it :), 35 of those professionally, as in getting payed to do it. -
@Maer Not too unrealistic because you can't only have one dev anyway (bus factor), and once you have two devs, you can rotate the workshare so that for each thing one of them implements, the other is responsible for testing.
The problem is that you'll make the same oversights in test case design that you already made in the software design, like missing edge cases. That's why independence is necessary. -
@nonox Yup, that’s why they hired more developers to spread the knowledge/scope around after this side project got out of hand. Unfortunately they cheaped out/hired family members. They are supposed to do QA too but they don’t, they just auto approve everything assigned to them. Manager doesn’t give a shit as long as he can check the box that something is done. If their code causes a problem I’m held accountable so I’m stuck with it.
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@Fast-Nop Yup, no budget given for QA so we’re stuck doing it ourselves as best as we can. It’s not ideal but it’s all we’ve got.
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Reminds me of "real man" arguments. Just stupid.
One becomes a "real developer" the moment they get hired at a position that implies developing / maintaining some kind of software.
Yes, this is not requires, as there are other ways of becoming a developer. It's just a definitive one — if you got hired to write code, you're a goddamn real developer. -
@Fast-Nop don't even go there.
I could fucking punch someone right now because they've had a fucking month to do the QA on a major release and... well here I am working on the weekend before release doing the fucking QA for these cunts.
If I could move the release date I would, but this one is a regulatory deadline and not of my choosing, which you would think someone would have done the fucking testing already.
So, I digress. As much as there should be a QA stream, and as much as these asshats should have done it, fuck them.
Sometimes the only person competent enough is the fucking dev writing this shit, testing this shit, and deploying this shit regardless of sign offs and if it all works or not.
Yes, I'm really at that point of "full stack" where I do it all, and I'm getting tired of it. 🙇♂️ -
@kiki That’s really kind, thank you sincerely
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@C0D4 Keep fighting the good fight friend. The best sailors emerge only from stormy waters.
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@Ranchonyx Cheers! I wrote a bit more of a tag on the end to make it end with a bit more rhythm/a bit of alliteration and a rhyme.
—scapegoat them into taking the fall for whatever it is that’s come up today you couldn’t possibly understand. I take responsibility for every flicker of this flame. I own every ember. I cultivate each coal. Any corner that does not glow as it should I will stoke until it shines anew.
Not a real developer?
Fuck. You. -
@Fast-Nop By "you can't" I suppose you mean "you shouldn't".
In my experience it's more common than not to have management unfamiliar with standard practices in softdev in companies up to a certain size and/or without softdev specialization.
In short - there is all kinds of shit. One dev doing everything is common in start-ups, even though it's a poor idea and whenever I saw development department staffed with only a couple of devs, more often than not they skipped over all quality assurance tasks such as review processes altogether, "because they needed to be productive".
In my experience companies (up to a certain size) adhering to softdev standards is rather the exception, not the rule. Of course they are shooting themselves in the foot with that, but that's just what businesses out there look like.
That being said - your mileage may vary of course. -
@jiraTicket IT and Managers who know I didn’t go to post secondary to learn code and instead picked it up by reading books/documentation (Typescript backend/frontend).
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@jiraTicket I write TWIG so my HTML counts as real development. 🤣
“Yeah but you’re not a *real* developer”
Fuck. you.
I wrote 80% of this code base. I do 80% of the tickets/storyboard points. I do all of the QA. My nose is to the grindstone every fucking day honing this craft and sweating my balls off like a blacksmith staring into the red hot kiln while the sores of previous mistakes scream bloody murder from the unrelenting exposure to heat. I saw this amazing industry of opportunity, freedom and self examination and wanted in no matter what it took. I glued myself to every pithy resource I could possibly get my hands on and crawled through the muck and filth of it all until I could keep myself warm with the smallest spark of my own making. I stoked that spark until it became a fire and stoked that fire until I could set entire forests ablaze. I listened to the ungrateful people keeping warm by my combustion saying it “wasn’t hot enough” or “would have been a nicer colour if they did it” or “could have warmed up just fine jogging on the spot”. I made painstaking alterations to my ignition and watched my undeserving benefactors gradually be silenced and begin to sit quietly by the heat. I jumped into that inferno daily, was reduced to ash daily and emerged reborn daily. But you are right! I didn’t get scammed out of $40k+ studying technology in an archaic institution from instructors who don’t give a shit and answering “D all of the above” for 4+ years straight therefor my opinion doesn’t mean shit. Push your bullshit to prod and watch the server come burning out of the cloud as the apocalyptic swarm of angry tickets come flooding in why don’t you? Bet they didn’t teach you that in school. You’ve never poked around inside an open source codebase in your life. They are just a mystery boxes of magic that unless someone holds your hands with finely crafted instructions containing a 50/50 picture to word ratio you throw a hissy fit. Every problem that comes up instead of working to solve it you reflexively point to the first person in the room while thinking with your pea brain how you can possibly scapegoat them into taking the fall for whatever it is that’s come up today you couldn’t possibly understand.
Not a real developer?
Fuck. You.
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