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People of devRant. I am in need of some advice.
So I joined this new firm around an year ago and ever since my team lead resigned, we have been managing it ourselves. Then a senior member suggested me that I could be a good fit as a team lead role. Now there are members in my team that are more experienced than I am but they either don't want to lead or are not good at it. I never had a formal leadership role before although I have driven projects. Higher management is open overlook my lack of experience but has also said that I may not find lot of technical growth as I am moving to a more administrative role. Any piece of advice on what I should do? I would love to have a leadership role but would it really affect my technical learning?14
Manager: Hey how come you left so many comments on my PR?
Dev: Well you’ve just recently learned how to code so there’s going to be a lot of things to learn beyond what you’ve picked up in your online coding tutorials. Don’t worry it’s only minor things like you put everything all in one function, left outdated comments in the code, have if statements 4 levels deep, have a console.log after every line of code some of which log .env variables, skipped error handling, cast to “any” a bunch instead of using more specific types, didn’t write any tests and some unrelated tests are now failing due to a circular dependancy.
Manager: THAT IS SO DISRESPECTFUL!!APPROVE MY PR IMMEDIATELY. IT WASN’T EVEN EASY FOR ME TO CREATE THE PR, NOW I HAVE TO MAKE AN UPDATE!? YOU’RE THE DEV, YOU SHOULD FIX IT NOT ME!! NEVER COMMENT ON ANY OF MY PRS AGAIN.11
I've been a consultant in the area of mobile apps for five years now and have stayed at the same company since getting my degree.
In the beginning I had an immense passion and worked on a lot of side projects/pro bono stuff during my free time. Around the same time as the pandemic hit I simply lost all my interest and energy, life has been going to work, go home, find something to eat and go to bed. I can't even find joy in playing video games, working out or cooking anymore, it's always browsing youtube/netflix because I can't find it in me to commit to anything that requires focus.
The project I'm currently in no longer gives me the ability to grow technically, it's just the same old stuff over and over with no opportunity to do proper maintenance or explore new approaches/frameworks/etc.
I recently found out that I make around 25-30% less than my peers in the same field and location, this was a blow for me since I keep getting praised both from customers, management and my fellow developers.
A year ago I asked management to find me a new project with the motivation that I don't want to stall my growth, they have yet to heed this request since I'm not easily replaced.3
In reference to Berkmann18's complaints about his flat.
1. found a business that does apartment listings in the style of social media.
2. focus on helping people find less-shit room mates. Like yelp, but for assholes.
3. make your money on helping millennials and gen-z manage and automate rental payments, because both those generations HATE having to look people in the eyes, having to ask for money, or anything involving negotiation. Automate the pain, monetize their avoidance habits.
4. Dashboard for splitting bills, handling rental and sub-let agreements, and divying up rental payments.
5. Get paid by geolocated advertisers for small business services, e.x. roof repair, plumbing, lawn mowing, pool cleaning, etc.
6. That positions you to do strategic partnerships with companies that provide platforms for small business providers, like angieslist.
Had this idea a while back but pursuing something else and just wanted to put it out there for people more capable than me. Lot of great developers out there that beat around for good ideas, and then there are a lot of people with good ideas who don't have the skills to implement.
Call it flattmates, or snagahome, or something like that.
On the offchance anyone decides to go for it, and you get funded, hire me to do grunt work, thats all the thanks I want.
Also I accept payment in blowjobs and beer.3
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literally what the fuck is the point of C++
>takes 3 years to make anything half-functional
>language was made in like fucking 1902 so it's damn near fucking impossible to make anything that works without sifting through bumfuck retarded syntax/libraries
>error messages that tell you absolutely nothing of use and are indecipherable garbage 90% of the time
fuck C, fuck it's retarded downie little brother C++, and fuck the stupid fucking boomers who say you're not a real programmer unless you force yourself to become a masochist by using either one of these stupid fucking languages
"oh but it's fast!!11!1!!" yeah but working with it sure as fuck isn't
half the fucking time if I just stop including certain headers in another file then the compiler throws like literally 400 fucking errors at me even though the thing(s) I excluded had no bearing on whatever the compiler decides it wants to loudly bitch and whine about
"oh but games were made on it!!!!111!" yeah not without fucking horrific spaghetti code and 900000 different libraries and dependancies designed just to make a single fucking window41
Science says it can't be done! You can't have an iPhone AND preserve your privacy!
Yet here I am, doing just that. Just analyze apps you use and just quit using fucking leeches like instagram and whatever facebook puts out. Also, do this:
1. Disable iMessage, iCloud and FaceTime
2. Opt out of sending analytics to apple
3. Use VPN with DNS that blocks trackers
4. Disable background app refresh and location access
Most importantly, quit using whatever uses personalization to spoon-feed you content that exploits your confirmation bias. Quit watching youtube. Switch to DuckDuckGo or whatever search engine without personalization.
If you don't like apple and don't care about cameras, just buy a Pixel smartphone and install Calyx OS. Fairfone with /e/os is also a good alternative.12
Find a place where management is able to handle some criticism.
I personally think Agile/Scrum is holy, and I don't mean "yeah we kind of do our own version of it", no, fucking do it by the book. The PM shouldn't assign estimates. Developers shouldn't receive bugfix requests from anyone other than the scrum master. The CTO can't be your scrum master... etc.
If a company can't answer the question "What were the points of feedback during the last retrospective(s), and how are those points being picked up?" -- Don't work there.
Many other things are optional in my opinion. I could work at a company without QA, without fruit baskets, table tennis, without Friday drinks. I could even live without git & continuous integration, just emailing patches to a patch integrator. I don't care.
But maintaining a safe bubble of serenity and sanity for devs to do their work in, that is an absolute must.
Also, option to WFH as much as wanted. Offices are nice for social bonding, but they kill productivity for me.6
Perfect my script to automate YouTube videos to tiktok. The script would take a YouTube url as input and then split the video into 3 minute long pieces ( the longest time allowed for tiktok ) and post it to tiktok. I’ve gotten it before but I had to do some fucked shit bc I couldn’t get puppeteer to bypass tiktok’s bot security so it’s super inconsistent1
I tend to be a perfectionist, and I have a hard time coping when I feel like someone isn’t happy with work that I’ve done, or when I feel like I haven’t lived up to my own standards.
I’ve been at my current job for a little more than a year, and for the vast majority of that time, my supervisor and coworkers have seemed very pleased with me. My performance reviews so far have been completely positive. But I’m aware that over the past month or so, I’ve run up against more challenges than usual. I’ve taken on some new projects that I haven’t felt entirely confident about, there have been some organizational changes, and because this is a busy time for my department, I don’t always feel like I can easily get help when I have a question about something.
To make things worse, I struggle with anxiety, and while I’ve been working very hard to manage it, all it takes is a few bad days to put me behind on things. I really want to step up to the plate, and I’ve been worried that expressing concerns would make me look like I’m not capable or like I’m a complainer. But the truth is, I’ve been getting in over my head a bit, and I worry that it’s reflecting poorly on me. I haven’t made any terrible mistakes, but it’s taken me longer than usual to complete or follow up on tasks and I haven’t been as organized as I usually am. My supervisor hasn’t gotten upset with me, and she’s expressed understanding, but I’m worried that she has less confidence in me than she used to.
To be fair to myself, over the past couple weeks I feel like I’ve been doing a good job at catching up and getting back to my usual level of efficiency. I feel optimistic about my ability to handle things from here on out, at least for the most part. But I’m scared that a few “off” weeks will damage my reputation and workplace relationships, and that people are thinking poorly of me now. I think because I’m so hard on myself (I feel guilty whenever someone praises me, because I don’t feel like I deserve it), it’s hard for me to have an accurate perception of how things actually are.
Also, do you have any tips for addressing challenges when they come up? I struggle with asking for help or clarification sometimes because I don’t want to come across like I need my hand held. And do you have any suggestions for how to deal with it when things just aren’t going smoothly? I know that in the workplace, what matters is results. The fact that I might be having a bad day due to anxiety or a late night with a sick pet isn’t an excuse. But while I think I’m generally good at managing stress and anxiety and that bad days are uncommon, I can’t guarantee that I won’t ever go through a tough time and that that won’t impact my focus at all.7
I have arrived at a conclusion that most, if not all, people in management (managers, sr managers, directors, VPs, etc) are assholes.
And every single person who is hands on with their skill is gold of a human being.
I think, to be a manager, the basic criteria is to be an asshole. Fuckers ignore you, discourage you, belittle you in front of everyone, never help you, and make your life difficult as much as they can.
That totally ruins the productivity and moral of a person.
Welcome to Capitalism, Floyd.
And person who is hands on, knows and has fuck ton of more knowledge and wisdom needed to achieve something. They are very helpful and nice.
Just bagging a heavy pay check and making crappy decisions doesn't make you a good boss.15
Product and Design have a common enemy. Yes, you guessed it right, Engineering.
The former aim to solve user problems and focus heavily on aesthetics most of the time. While the latter actually does it.
As a Product guy, I admit that I absolutely hate the role these days because all that are asked to focus on is engagement retention conversion and other fancy metrics. Community has missed the entire point of why the fucking role exist.
On the other hand, engineering always asks the best questions. Focuses on performance and scale while periodically checking on tech debt. Yes, they suck at business or sales but when the solution works, things automatically make money.
I DON'T FUCKING CARE HOW BEAUTIFUL YOUR APP IS, IF IT DOESN'T SOLVE MY PROBLEM THEN IT'S RUBBISH.
Functionality and UX matters to more than colour scheme or fonts. Reason why Amazon is a huge. They are functionally solving a great problem while constantly improvising UX and not giving a rat's ass on UI.
Another down side to your fancy design is that the UI elements make things heavier. No wonder engineers have always been the best problem solver.
We lost our way. Tech world needs to go back a decade or two to fix the tech debt.8
Dear people who complain about spending a whole night to find a tiny syntax error; Every time I read one of your rants, I feel like a part of me dies.
As a developer, your job is to create elegant optimized rivers of data, to puzzle with interesting algorithmic problems, to craft beautiful mappings from user input to computer storage and back.
You should strive to write code like a Michelangelo, not like a house painter.
You're arguing about indentation or getting annoyed by a project with braces on the same line as the method name. You're struggling with semicolons, misplaced braces or wrongly spelled keywords.
You're bitching about the medium of your paint, about the hardness of the marble -- when you should be lamenting the absence of your muse or the struggle to capture the essence of elegance in your work.
In other words:
Fix your fucking mindset, and fix your fucking tools. Don't fucking rant about your tabs and spaces. Stop fucking screaming how your bloated swiss-army-knife text editor is soooo much better than a purpose-built IDE, if it fails to draw something red and obnoxious around your fuck ups.
1. I join a company.
2. I get deeply involved in "how to run the company", and get nice compliments from both coworkers & management about my skills in conveying startup/scaleup advice & necessities to upper management.
3. With my ego inflated through all the sweet talk, I think "ah, what the hell, let's do this again", and I accept a Lead/CTO promotion. I have to join board meetings, write reports on quarterly plans and progress.
4. I get unhappy/stressed/burned-out because I really just want to be a developer, not a manager/executive.
5. Upper management understands, I give up my lead position, lock myself back into my coding cave.
6. I get annoyed because the requirements I receive become more and more disconnected from reality, half of the teams seem to have decided to stop using agile/scrum, the testing pipeline breaks all the time, I get an updated labor contract from HR by mail which smells like charred flesh, etc
7. The annoyances become too much to do ANY work. I yell at the other devs outside of the entrance of my cave. There is no answer, only a few painful moans and sighs.
8. I emerge from my cave. The city has turned into a desolate wasteland. The office is a burning ruin, the air sharp and heavy with black soot. Disemboweled corpses of developers litter the poisoned soil.
Product Managers dressed in stained ripped suits scream at each other while they try to reinforce concrete barricades with scotch tape and post-its. *THUMP* Something enormous is trying to break through. "Thank God, bittersweet, you're still alive! The stakeholders! They have mutated! We couldn't meet the promised deadlines! We've lost the whole mobile app department, and that kid there is the last of the backenders and he's only an intern! You're here to save us, right? RIGHT?".
In the corner, between the overflowing coffee machine and a withered cactus, a young boy has collapsed onto the floor. His face is covered in moldy coffee grounds, clasping on to his closed macbook for dear life, wide-open eyes staring into the void, mumbling: "didn't backup the database, and It's all gone" over and over.
A severely dented black Tesla with a dragging loose bumper breaks through the dried up vertical herb garden and the smoothiebar, and comes to a halt against the beanbags in a big cloud of styrofoam balls.
The CEO limps out, leaking blood all over the upholstery. He yells to the COO: "The datacenter is completely flooded with sewage! I saved the backup tapes though", holding a large nest of tangled black magnetic tape mixed with clumps of mud above his head.
9. I collect my outstanding salary and sell any rewarded options/shares for a low dumping price, take a 5 month holiday, and ask a recruiter about opportunities in a different city.14
take a walk!
take a naps!
The ONE thing that has had the biggest impact in my career is likely walks and naps.
Some years ago out frustration I decided to pause a project and took a walk (or a nap, I don't remember) and 30 mins later I had a clearer idea of what to test next, a possible solution or something...
Nowadays I don't wait at all to be frustrated, way before that, when I feel myself spinning my wheels, slightly stuck, or just a little slower than what I usually am, I just stop right there and take either a walk or a nap. I can't count all the times in which I've come up with solutions/alternatives/approaches/etc. to problems/tasks/etc.
So now walking and napping IS part of my work. I'll get familiar with the problem, or spent some time understanding the goal and then I'll go for a walk or take a nap. And my career keeps progressing, I'm less likely to snap, haven't been anywhere near burnout for years, raises, and other great stuff, and a huge part of it I attribute it to taking walks and naps!
Give it a try!9
I am a female manager at a small, mostly male company, and directly manage several people (all male). One of the six has worked for me for multiple years. Since he began his employment, I always felt he had a “crush” on me and kept my distance (as much as I could as his manager).
His crush has gotten increasingly more obsessive over the past year: constantly staring at me, using absurd reasons to contact me through email/messenger/texts, whether at work or evening/weekends, and getting extremely emotional/upset if I do not frequently talk with him or provide feedback for his every task. He never says anything inappropriate or makes any advances but is making me increasingly more uncomfortable.
My tendency to avoid the employee combined with my obvious annoyance with his increasingly absurd reasons to interact with me is reflecting poorly on my management skills — to the extent that my manager is questioning my abilities to manage.25
I did some grave and irreversible mistakes in my life
- Never gathered enough courage to mingle with women when I was younger and now the hope is lost
- Compromised my values and mental wellness when I met a narcissistic bitch
- Did not invest money wisely when markets were sailing low and allowed that good sum to sit in bank
- Did not plan health and term insurance at early age when premiums could have been low
- Out of fear, did not follow my gut to purchase gold because my father was acting crazy (or else my money would have been doubled)
- Did not plan my taxation well (or until now would have paid almost zero tax)
- Did not define strict boundaries and allowed people to overstep (or else I would have better friends and family relationships)
- Did not quit my job early and stuck with low paying shit with negative learning, for years (or else I would have grown exponentially)
Thankfully few things I did right are, spending more time with my mom and learning from my mistakes.
I hope I don't make such stupid life choices again.15
So, you start with a PHP website.
Nah, no hating on PHP here, this is not about language design or performance or strict type systems...
This is about architecture.
No backend web framework, just "plain PHP".
That sounds like fucking paradise to me right now. 😍
But no, of course it was updated to PHP7, using Laravel, and a main.js file was created. GREAT.... right? Yes. Sure. Totally cool. Gotta stay with the times. But there's still remnants of that ancient framework-less website underneath. So we enter an era of Laravel + Blade templates, with a little sprinkle of raw imported PHP files here and there.
Fine. Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css. Whatever. I can still handle this. 🤨
But then the Frontend hipsters swoosh back their shawls, sip from their caramel lattes, and start whining: "We want React! We want SPA! No more BootstrapCSS, we're going to launch our own suite of SASS styles! IT'S BETTER".
OK, so we create REST endpoints, and the little monkeys who spend their time animating spinners to cover up all the XHR fuckups are satisfied. But they only care about the top most visited pages, so we ALSO need to keep our Blade templated HTML. We now have about 200 SPA/REST routes, and about 350 classic PHP/Blade pages.
So we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA 😑
Now the Backend grizzlies wake from their hibernation, growling: We have nearly 25 million lines of PHP! Monoliths are evil! Did you know Netflix uses microservices? If we break everything into tiny chunks of code, all our problems will be solved! Let's use DDD! Let's use messaging pipelines! Let's use caching! Let's use big data! Let's use search indexes!... Good right? Sure. Whatever.
OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Cassandra + Elastic 😫
Our monolith starts pooping out little microservices. Some polished pieces turn into pretty little gems... but the obese monolith keeps swelling as well, while simultaneously pooping out more and more little ugly turds at an ever faster rate.
Management rushes in: "Forget about frontend and microservices! We need a desktop app! We need mobile apps! I read in a magazine that the era of the web is over!"
OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + GraphQL + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Google pub/sub + Neo4J + Cassandra + Elastic + UWP + Android + iOS 😠
"Do you have a monolith or microservices" -- "Yes"
"Which database do you use" -- "Yes"
"Which API standard do you follow" -- "Yes"
"Do you use a CI/building service?" -- "Yes, 3"
"Which Laravel version do you use?" -- "Nine" -- "What, Laravel 9, that isn't even out yet?" -- "No, nine different versions, depends on the services"
"Besides PHP, do you use any Python, Ruby, NodeJS, C#, Golang, or Java?" -- "Not OR, AND. So that's a yes. And bash. Oh and Perl. Oh... and a bit of LUA I think?"
2% of pages are still served by raw, framework-less PHP.32
"years of experience" basically means nothing, both for people and organisations. You can work with someone who has 30 years experience who knows nothing, and someone with 1-2 years who's practically an expert.
Joined a large multi-national fresh out of college, that had been around for +90 years. I expected them to know software development inside and out. Didn't expect to see so many failed projects for stupid reasons, so many over sights, so many .... morons, to be honest.
Worked for a startup company where most only had 1 or 2 years more experience than me and learned so much.
Worked for a small company where everyone had 1.5 - 2 times my experience, where I learned the meaning of "bewilderment".
Never feel small, or less valuable because of a number. Theres a good chance you are working with jackasses - practiseSafeHex12
fellow from the team was asked to do the estimate by manager - he said 2 weeks
then manager asked what if we add one more developer - he said, again 2 weeks and maybe add day or two
I was asked same question without knowing that they already asked fellow from the team same question - I said around two weeks, maybe day or two more! XD
as manager was confused and not satisfied with the estimates, goes to our team leader with the same questions - team leader said - 2 and half weeks and if you add one more dev to it, 3 weeks minimum
we didn't know that all of us were asked as manager did that behind our backs, in the end manager learned lesson in greed as we got to stick to team leaders estimate!
also that was very rude of underestimating someone's ability, same manager did had personal bias and frequently mocked us, for example when we said that that we will implement ML for cropping images at the right place (ie. crop part of the image where the face is) on the backend. Response was something like: 'You guys will do the ML? Are you shitting me? You're not /insert FANG company/!'
best team win ever!
second best team win ever is when whole team left the company in matter of weeks1
It depends, really. Sometimes it's a spontaneous urge, sometimes it's me drinking and coding whilst doing so.
Sometimes it's a lot of coffee as mentioned in another post commenting on this week's topic.
Regarding the drinking: for some reason my code works and I write more in less time.
1. Music, something fast paced with minimal to zero lyrics (usually a GOA radio station in my case)
2. No distractions around (use a "do-not-disturb" flag or something to hang on your monitor or show on your desk)
3. No chats or other communication/social media visible, best case those apps / tabs are completely closed or muted
4. Having a clear goal to achieve, might even be only a sub-goal for the current coding session.
5. Structure your code before your actually write it, I usually create step-by-step comments in each file, documenting my thought process and what steps the current file/class/whatever should do.
6. Try to code your stuff in the same order as the aforementioned comment step-by-step list dictates (unless there is a reason to change the coding order)
7. Only windows open: IDE/Editor, Browser
8. Also keep only the browser tabs needed for your work open (testing clients, documentation, music if using a browser client, etc.)
At least that's what works for me5
Started with flow chart programming in a robotics club after class in middle school.
Joined another club where I spent the first 3-4 weeks learning Python and JS basics on freecodecamp.
Programming classes on algorithms and frameworks in high school and college.
Beyond that, mostly reading documentation, stackoverflow and some udemy courses.
1. I love the challenge of a good puzzle. There's always something new to solve that I didn't know before, and it rarely requires external knowledge like a crossword...
2. At least in my current life situation, no one I interact with has any idea what I'm doing, so if I feel like working on a solution to side project at work, it wouldn't look any different. It also keeps people from trying to learn about what I'm doing. They leave me alone which is exactly what I want.
3. As my professor once said (and totally stole from someone else), "the people who are the most talented and innovative with their code are probably the laziest in reality". I feel like this is pretty true, at least for me. Sometimes I see a simple repetitive task that I don't feel like doing, and I have the power to create a program to do it for me. Ultimate laziness with a fantastic result.
I am a PHP developer.
Yeah, "another PHP is awful" rant... no, not really.
It's just unsuitable for some ambitious projects, just like Ruby and Python are.
First of all, DO NOT EVER use Laravel for large enterprise applications. The same goes for RoR, Django, and other ActiveRecord MVCs.
They are all neat frameworks for writing a todo app, as a better-than-wordpress flexible blogging solution, even as a custom webshop.
Beyond 50k daily users, Active Record becomes hell due to it's lazy fat querying habits. At more than a million users... *depressed sigh*.
PHP is also completely unsuitable for projects beyond 5M lines of code in my opinion. At more than 25M lines... *another depressed sigh*.
You can let your devs read Clean Code and books about architecture patterns, you can teach them about SOLID & DRY, you can write thousands of tests... it doesn't matter.
PHP is scaffolding, it's made of bamboo and rope. It's not brick or concrete. You can build quickly, but it only scales up to a certain point before it breaks in multiple places.
Eventually you run into patterns where even 100% test coverage still doesn't guarantee shit, because the real-life edge cases are just too complex and numerous.
When you're working on a multi-party invoicing system with adapters for various tax codes, or an availability/planning system working across timezones, or systems which implement geographical routefinding coupled to traffic, event & weather prediction...
PHP, Python, Ruby, etc are just missing types.
Every day I run into bugs which could have been prevented if you could use ADTs in a generic way in PHP. PHP7 has pretty good typehints, and they prevent a lot of messy behavior, but they aren't composable. There is no way to tell PHP "this method accepts a Collection of Users", or "this methods returns maybe either an Apple or a Pear, and I want to force the caller to handle both Apple/Pear and null".
Well, you could do that, but it requires a lot of custom classes and trickery, and you have to rewrite the same logic if you want to typehint a "Collection of Departments" instead of "Collection of Users" -- i.e., it's not composable.
Probably the biggest issue is that languages with a (mostly) structural type system (Haskell, Rust, even C#/JVM languages to some degree, etc) are much slower to develop in for the "startup" era of a project, so you grab a weak, quick prototyping language to get started.
Then, when you reach a more grown up phase, you wish you had a better type system at your disposal...28
I have multiple (in no particular order) :
Nextcloud : It was an idea that I had in my head as well - to take on corporations like Google in the space of personal cloud. Be free, open-source and put the users in charge.
Gitlab : The most open and transparent company that I've ever come across. And they work 99% remote. They've got features that no other players in the space have. All while putting users in control.
Fediverse social media - Mastodon, GNU Social, Diaspora (soon) : For taking a major step in the direction of putting the users in control of their data; all while enabling a decentralized social network.
Ruby : An open community and building a programming language that runs a lot of software of the world.
Python : The oldest thriving community that has a special place in the development community (and my heart)
Not a co-worker but a personal friend, I am still developing with the dude. He is absolutely AMAZING when it comes to reverse engineering he knows much more than me in this area of computer science. Actually one of my first friends who actually geeks out over this shit.10
The website I'm building is like a crypto flavored kickstarter/gofundme.
What I need assistance is figuring out how to write python code for this process:
There will be an intermediary wallet used to gauge the funds in order to payout [like kickstarter]- the second function of this intermediary wallet is to deduct it's commission
For each user account post a unique ID is created and that is now linked to the wallet used to deposit their final funds in.
I don't need you to do the work for me... I just need guidance on how to visualize a process to write this out.. maybe some relevant documentation? i've already attempted but was outa luck.1