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Search - "#php#javascript#nodejs"
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So, you start with a PHP website.
Nah, no hating on PHP here, this is not about language design or performance or strict type systems...
This is about architecture.
No backend web framework, just "plain PHP".
Well, I can deal with that. As long as there is some consistency, I wouldn't even mind maintaining a PHP4 site with Y2K-era HTML4 and zero Javascript.
That sounds like fucking paradise to me right now. 😍
But no, of course it was updated to PHP7, using Laravel, and a main.js file was created. GREAT.... right? Yes. Sure. Totally cool. Gotta stay with the times. But there's still remnants of that ancient framework-less website underneath. So we enter an era of Laravel + Blade templates, with a little sprinkle of raw imported PHP files here and there.
Fine. Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css. Whatever. I can still handle this. 🤨
But then the Frontend hipsters swoosh back their shawls, sip from their caramel lattes, and start whining: "We want React! We want SPA! No more BootstrapCSS, we're going to launch our own suite of SASS styles! IT'S BETTER".
OK, so we create REST endpoints, and the little monkeys who spend their time animating spinners to cover up all the XHR fuckups are satisfied. But they only care about the top most visited pages, so we ALSO need to keep our Blade templated HTML. We now have about 200 SPA/REST routes, and about 350 classic PHP/Blade pages.
So we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA 😑
Now the Backend grizzlies wake from their hibernation, growling: We have nearly 25 million lines of PHP! Monoliths are evil! Did you know Netflix uses microservices? If we break everything into tiny chunks of code, all our problems will be solved! Let's use DDD! Let's use messaging pipelines! Let's use caching! Let's use big data! Let's use search indexes!... Good right? Sure. Whatever.
OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Cassandra + Elastic 😫
Our monolith starts pooping out little microservices. Some polished pieces turn into pretty little gems... but the obese monolith keeps swelling as well, while simultaneously pooping out more and more little ugly turds at an ever faster rate.
Management rushes in: "Forget about frontend and microservices! We need a desktop app! We need mobile apps! I read in a magazine that the era of the web is over!"
OK, so we enter the Era of Ancient PHP + Laravel + Blade + main.js + bootstrap.css + hipster.sass + REST + GraphQL + React + SPA + Redis + RabbitMQ + Google pub/sub + Neo4J + Cassandra + Elastic + UWP + Android + iOS 😠
"Do you have a monolith or microservices" -- "Yes"
"Which database do you use" -- "Yes"
"Which API standard do you follow" -- "Yes"
"Do you use a CI/building service?" -- "Yes, 3"
"Which Laravel version do you use?" -- "Nine" -- "What, Laravel 9, that isn't even out yet?" -- "No, nine different versions, depends on the services"
"Besides PHP, do you use any Python, Ruby, NodeJS, C#, Golang, or Java?" -- "Not OR, AND. So that's a yes. And bash. Oh and Perl. Oh... and a bit of LUA I think?"
2% of pages are still served by raw, framework-less PHP.32 -
So I have this best friend who is almost 10 years younger than me. (I'm turning 40 this month). He's a full stack web dev, nodejs-god, react-maniac, you name it. He fucking LIVES to code the most amazing shit I have seen to date.
I, on the other hand, am that old, little overweight PHP coder webdev with a shitload of experience in that field (17th year now), also with linux webserver administration and all the JavaScript knowledge I need in m job.
Sitting next to him and doing some fun coding sessions always makes me feel like I am that "slow, fat kid in class"... while he is the coding master.
Sitting at work (marketing agency) where I started as the new webdev 10 months ago, I still feel like the coding guru because even the web 'developers' don't know jack shit yet (coz they never had to).
It's fine, they are learning and want to learn.
All I wanna say that even though one might be seen as a senior dev by some, he might sometimes feel like a junior dev when he's around others.2 -
Hello there, just couple of words about PHP. I've been develop on PHP more than 10 years, I've seen it all 3,4,5,{6},7. Yes PHP was not good in terms of engineering and patterns, but it was simple, it was the most simple language for web to start those days. It was simple as you put code into file, upload it via FTP and it works. No java servlets, no unix consoles, no nothing, just shared hosting account was enough to host site, or even application with database. As database everybody used to have mysql, again because its simple to start and easy to maintain. So PHP+MySQL became industry standard on Web during 00-2012, and continues in some way.
You can write HTML and logic inside single file, within php code, even more single file may content few pages, or even kind of framework. That simplicity and agility sticks everybody who wants to develop sites with PHP.
This is pretty much about why it is so popular.
Each good or wannabe PHP developer in an early days write its own framework or library (like in javascript this days because of nodejs)
Imagine that PHP has hadn't have package manager, developers used to have host packages on their own sites, then various packages catalog sites created, and then finally composer. A gazillions of php code had spread over internet, without any kind of dependency control. To include libraries to your projects you have to just write include, or require. Some developers do it better than others.
So what we have ? A lots of code, no repositories, zip archives with libraries, no dependency control.
Project that uses that kind of code are still alive even today, they are solid hose of cards, and unmaintainable of course.
And main question that I'm trying to answer is Why PHP is not good ?
- First is amount of legacy code which people copy and pasted into their project, spread it even more like a virus.
- Lack of industry standards at the beginning lead to a lots of bad practices among developers. PHP code usually smells.
open source php projects in early days was developed in same conditions so even in phpbb, phpnuke, wordpress, drupal used to have a lot of bad practices in their codebase. So php developers usually not study by another library, instead they write their own frameworks/libraries.
- "It works", - there are no strong business demands, on web development, again because lack of standards, and concerns.
This three things are basically same, they linked to each other and summarize of answer of why PHP have strong smells and everybody yelling against it.
Whats is with PHP nowadays ? Of course PHP today is more influenced by good practice of webdev. Composer, Zend, Laravel, Yii, Symphony and language it self became more adult so to say, but developers...
People who never tried anything except PHP are usually weaker in programming and ecosystem knowledge than people who tried something else, python, perl, ruby, c for instance.
Summary
PHP as any other programming language is a tool. Each tool has its own task. Consider this and your task requirements and PHP can be just good enough solution.
"PHP is shit" - usually you heard that from people who never write strong applications on PHP and haven't used any good tools like Symphony or Laravel.
Cheap developers, - the bigger community, the more chance to hire cheap developers, and more chance to get bad code. That can be applied on any other language.
PHP has professionals developers, usually they have not only php on scope.
That's all folks, this is very brief, I am not covering php usage early days in details, but this is good enough to understand the point.
Enjoy.8 -
When this year started I didn't have much knowledge of server side programming as web developer, only thing I knew was html/css. But this year I got started with:
- PHP
- Framework Phalcon (PHP)
- Javascript (jQuery, NodeJS, react)
- SASS (I can't without it anymore)
- Virtual Hosts (local development)
- Command Line stuff either in macOs and linux ubuntu
This is a huge deal for me because I always got laughed at I only wrote CSS and couldn't write anything else.
So knowledge-wise it was the most productive year ever.
Also, devRant helps me get through the day lately. Thank you for being a part of it!6 -
First rant: but I'm so triggered and everyone needs a break from all the EU and PC rants.
It's time to defend JavaScript. That's right, the best frikin language in the universe.
Features:
incredible async code (await/async)
universal support on almost everything connected to the internet
runs on almost all platforms including natively
dynamically interpreted but also internally compiled (like Perl)
gave birth to JSON (you're welcome ppl who remember that the X in AJAX stood for XML)
All these people ranting about JS don't understand that JS isn't frikin magic. It does what it needs to do well.
If you're using it for compute-heavy machine learning, or to maintain a 100k LOC project without Typescript, then why'd you shoot yourself in the foot?
As a proud JS developer I gotta scroll through all these posts gushing over the other languages. Why does nobody rant about using Python for bitcoin mining or Erlang to create a media player?
Cuz if you use the wrong tool for the right job, it's of course gonna blow up in your face.
For example, there was a post claiming JS developers were "scared" of multithreading and only stick in their comfort zone. Like WTF when NodeJS came out everything was multithreaded. It took some brave developers to step out of the comfort zone to embrace the event loop.
For a web app, things like PHP and Node should only be doing light transforms between the database information and HTML anyways. You get one thread to handle the server because you're keeping other threads open to interface with databases and the filesystem. The Nexus.js dev ranting on all us JS devs and doesn't realize that nobody's actual web server is CPU bound because of writing HTML bodies, thats why we only use 1 thread. We use other worker threads to do the heavy lifting (yes there is a C++ bridge look it up)
Anyways TL;DR plz respect JS developers we're people too. ES7 is magic and please don't shit on ES3 or we'll start shitting on the Python 2-3 conversion (need to maintain an outdated binary just cuz people leave out ()'s in their print statements)
Or at least agree that VB.NET is an abomination and insult to the beauty that is TI-84 BASIC13 -
I'll admit - I come from a WordPress background of almost 9 years in the making. I guess I can justify it because of all of the sites I created using it, it was the best that it could be on WP. Fast, efficient, custom - none of that off-the-shelf themeforest crap. I created everything custom. I actually knew what was going on behind the scenes of WP.
And then a buddy of mine and I had an idea for a new company/software project. I was smart enough to know that WP was not the foundation for this, so I did some NodeJS/Express tutorials. Started learning React, and really getting into the Javascript world.
And now I'm wondering WHY IN THE ABSOLUTE FUCK I ever bothered trying to become an expert in WP. It's the largest use of PHP in the fucking world and it doesn't even have native composer support. And by the time you actually get your project set up using composer you have to add a fucking mirror of the wordpress.org plugin repo to get anything to work. It's 2018 and you'd think that WP and composer would have all of this shit figured out by now.
And don't get me started on git - as soon as you have more than 1 person working on a WP site, I hope you have hourly backups of your DB because someones work will get overwritten. So you all either need to work on the same staging area of work around each other by pushing/pulling the DB and schedule your workflows.
I guess WP CLI and the REST API are a step in the right direction, but the foundation of everything is just so fucked up.
I don't feel like I've wasted my web dev career, but I definitely wish I had started down this path a lot earlier. I guess you don't know what you don't know. Thanks for reading!2 -
True story
> Got offer for nodejs via LinkedIn
> When I appeared, the interview was for Javascript and frontend
> "Based on your skills we are calling in you another interview for Sr. PHP developer"8 -
Time to learn as mush as i can, Just Made Hello world Programs in 9 languages.
C#
C++
HTML
JavaScript
NodeJS
Perl
PHP
Python2
Ruby
If you Have some other things Tell me And i will try to learn it to33 -
What To Learn?
I'm a beginner in web development and have knowledge about html, css, JavaScript, jQuery, Sass, NodeJS, Express, MongoDB, Passport. You can consider me to be a beginner full stack developer, but I'm confused about what to learn further. There are so many front end frameworks that one can spend his entire life learning them. React, Vue, Angular, Backbone, etc. But I always want to learn backend properly, then there's Rails, PHP, SQL, Python. Can anyone atleast tell me what to learn and why exactly? This thing's making me mad and anxious.24 -
I like PHP but every new tech is about all the other languages ! Recently i was searching for microservice architecture and oh it's so easy with nodejs ! It's ready made for Go ! Java has a library build in ! What about Symfony ? Laravel ?18
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!rant
TL;DR one year on as a react dev, I want to go at it self employed, humbly seeking advice as this community seems to have its fair share of knowledgeable freelancers.
I have 1 year professional experience now as a Meteor, React and Apollo developer
The dream is to become self employed. I figure a good market would be small businesses that want a website that are more featureful than a diy wix site.
Only I am more of a developer than a designer, so rely heavily on things like Bootstrap or Material ui. So I wonder if Upwork, Fiverr or simply my own freelance website would be better.
As you guessed javascript is my biggest strength, not sure if nodejs is the best backend for small businesses as hosting prices are more than eqv php stack.
Also want to build own projects on the side to monetize. Bigger dream would be to be client-less and develop and sell personal projects.
Seeking advice from those who are self employed. Am I dreaming too big?
Shall I keep the office job for a bit longer then take the plunge? Or do you think I can just go for it. Are there lucrative areas I am missing?
Thanks in advanced8 -
Hello guys. A newbie to the app. I would like to ask - start a conversation with you about adopting new technologies, if should we follow or just wait? I am a PHP developer. I would set myself around mid to senior level. Since I graduated and I start working on a Marketing/Development Company, I have been develop a lot of websites, platforms with pure PHP, JavaScript, SQL. Later I start using framework like laravel. Now I am thinking about JS frameworks such as node, vue, react, angular and maybe later noSQL. The problem is that there are many new technologies that companies required when you apply. I want to learn new technologies but I don't know if that would be helpful than focus on LAMP and get better and better to that. Many orgs have implemented their own technologies and each company is getting mad to it. You see each company adapt these new technologies even if they don't want em or projects required it. So my question is: are we talking about dramatically speed and light use to server when we use new frameworks like these, previous mentione + etc? Or companies are just trying to look cool by mentioning many techologies while projects could never ask for em? (Nothing serious, I am just trying to make conversation and clear my thoughts by getting others opinion)17
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FUCK JAVASCRIPT!!! I JUST DECIDED TO LEARN DAMN EXPRESS AND NODEJS THEN I HAVE ISSUES WITH ROUTING ISSUES WITH VIEW ENGINES !!! ARGH!!! ITS SO SICKENING I HAVE TO REQUIRE() SHIT AND SHIT WTF??? JS?? WTF JS?? 50 LINES OF CODE FOR JUST A VIEW THAT SAYS "HELLO WORD" AHH FUCK IT, ***FALLS BACK TO PHP** BYE.7
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I start testing a new NodeJS framework for, I'm still quite of guy who doesn't like JavaScript in the backend (for me still a quite poor language for a lot of operations). But where I'm working now they use NodeJS (in a very pigsty way to be honest), so I decide to refactor and rewrite the application and start search about frameworks, I'm particularly huge fan of Laravel and PHP for web development and I found a framework called AdonisJS, it's amazing, the ecosystem is very stable and solid.
I start to apply some nice concepts also in the simple Todo List that I'm doing (repository pattern, resources controllers and etc).
I'm really like, you can check on my github profile https://github.com/Messhias/...
Someone is already used this framework for a real business application? I'm liking a lot to play with it.11 -
Why is it that my code runs perfectly fine in my dreams, but the moment I wake up, it’s like it has developed a mind of its own? It’s like my code has a secret nightlife that I’m not privy to.2
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!rant => question?
I'm hired as a freelancer for a start-up that wants to create a social-network-like platform. I've always been a "basic" PHP and javascript developer like using AngularJS, MySQL and my own kinda like PHP MVC framework etc.. But I'm worried that 'this' will come short when the platform expands on the user-base and stuff. That MySQL won't be able to keep up with the expectations and the amountof data, that AngularJS will not be enough for the Frontend,.. I've taken a look at ReactJS, RethinkDB, NodeJS and such, but this is not really within my "comfort zone" and I'm not willing to invest time in something new if it's not able to handle the platform (I don't know if it will..) and I'm afraid that I'll have to start from scratch if it all fails.. (and this is something I can't afford)
So.. What are you guys's opinions? We're not looking at millions of users, but it will have feeds, comments, connections, messages, post scopes,.. Etc. RethinkDB looks promising with the 'watchers' to get live data instantly, but it's a whole new way of query'ing and such.. It just feels like I'm wasting my time because I'm afraid that I'll reach a point in development where I'll have a situation for example like "damn.. This is impossible with angular or php.." [I've shouldn't have agreed to this project..] :D1 -
Any of you guys have a cool project that I can help with?
I think I'm good at JavaScript, nodejs and php
I'm new to github though I have several years as professional web developer2 -
Started learning development 6 years ago with VB on YouTube, after a year I switched to C# and then I got into web development so I started learning html,css,javascript,php and I just add to that list nowadays (nodejs, python, rust, ruby, ...)
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Hi....I made a website called gyangoggles to share tech articles and I fell in love with WordPress. Now I am planning to learn php. But there are many resources online which highlights negativity about php. Now please guide me whether I should go with php or choose something else.
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hmm... since i cant really code at work due to network restrictions and sh*ts planing to start on a personal project at home which will be like a cashless payment / e-wallet and planing to use node(express) as endpoint reactjs at web dashboard/admin and react-native for mobile client or i can just stay with laravel as endpoint and build the web ui using vuejs integrated with laravel? what do you guys think should i stick with node(express) or just use laravel?1
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really junior dev,
Should I keep dev with Drupal(twig, php) or jump in the JavaScript, react, node bandwagon?
at my job they are already moving one of the big sites from d7 to nodejs1