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Big thanks to everyone who's already become involved in this rant! I'm going to actually show the guy this post tomorrow just so he can see how many people are on his side and that he did nothing wrong, he was terrified he'd messed up (obviously he hadn't at all). I'll be writing another reply to this rant tomorrow to update. Any encouraging words for him in the replies would be greatly appreciated!
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Please thank him from me. I've had to help quite a few toolbar victims getting rid of those evil add-ons through the years. Anyone who tells their clients to refrain from peddling toolbars deserves cred - big time.
Also, he's saving an ungrateful client from a lot of toolbar caused badwill. They should appreciate that. -
@peaam Hello there, young guy, what you did was awesome; letting the client know what he really needs and what he really _doesn't_ need is a sign of a mature developer. You did great! Sometimes, clients just don't get it. You did your part and that's what matters. Stick with @peaam. I don't know him but I can safely assume that people like him aren't generally found on the planet. It's hard to find a senior who'll get your back like this and don't give a flying fuck to the client when the client crosses the line. Hope to see you up the ladder real quick real fast! Cheers!
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@donkeyScript more like 10 years ago :P
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1/4 - Wow, I was not expecting the response this rant's received. A very big thank you to everyone who contributed, you've made a big difference in the last 24 hours.
This morning I took our guy aside to show him devRant and this post, to put it mildly, he was very taken by all the support on here. To make it easier I will call our guy Tom (not his real name). Also, the client was a company, not just one person.
So there was a meeting scheduled for 12pm today (BST) and the guy from the client company was coming down to speak to me in person about what happened yesterday. Tom was still very upset this morning so we spent the first hour scrolling through devRant and reading a lot of rants (thanks guys!).
The plan was at 12pm I'd meet the guy from the client company, take him into an office and get his side of the story and explain Tom's side before taking things further. -
2/4 - 12pm came and went, 12:15pm nothing, by 12:30pm I was furious and about to call him when the receptionist told us he was in the building. I went down to meet a woman, this wasn't right, I'd heard it was a man that had shouted at Tom. She introduced herself as the CEO of client company and wanted to speak to Tom and myself together.
We went to an office and before I could start, Tom received the biggest apology I've ever seen. The reason the CEO was late was she'd stopped off to buy him a brand-new iPhone and MacBook Pro.
The guy who worked at the client company and shouted at Tom was overheard by somebody in his own office. It appears the guy was already on his final warning and, as of this morning, has been sacked. He'd treated other people very badly in the past and he was reported yesterday by one of his own colleagues for how he'd spoken to Tom. -
3/4 - It's hard to explain exactly what was said to yesterday because I want to avoid specifics, I'm sure a lot of people would say that these things happen all the time but the comments the guy made yesterday were incredibly personal about Tom and completely unacceptable for anyone.
We spoke to the CEO for about 2 hours and she made it clear that she was on Tom's side as much as we were. She has already found someone to take over the sacked guy's role and wants Tom to continue working with her company with a much nicer replacement.
I cannot thank devRant enough, I was furious last night when I wrote this rant and pretty much instantly got amazing feedback. This is my first rant to hit 175 +1s so I'm donating my stress ball to Tom and also getting him a t-shirt. Tom made a devRant account today, hopefully he can post some amazing content one day and get me a ball in return! -
Tom is a kickass. @peaam is a kicksss-er, devRant community is kickass-est.
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@peaam Great to know there are seniors like you out there! My best wishes to you and Tom!
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As a dev who also has to be the project manager for 20+ sites @ once, I understand this 100%. We get SO many rude ass clients who ask for the world/ near impossible and expect to not pay extra or to have it done in extremely unrealistic time frames. No matter how polite you are or how hard you try to explain that it won't work, it will cost more, etc., some clients just don't frikon get it and snap on/berate you. Sometimes I honestly feel bullied, and will turn my phone and email off towards the 2nd half of the day. I have been so upset to point of panic attacks and dreading work each morning.
I can't wait until the day when we have project managers and I can just code and not deal with clients and their nasty attitudes anymore.
This jr developer is VERY lucky to have someone like you step in. Clients forget we're the professionals and know what we're talking about. We're real people with feelings too and need to be treated with respect and kindness. ASSHAT CLIENTS. 🙄😡🖕🏻 -
Hopefully this didn't sound like a personal pity party for me, I just relate to this rant so much and know how he must have felt. I'm glad Tom was apologized to by the CEO and that DevRant made him feel better. I do think that there should be policies in place everywhere to protect us from and allow us to terminate clients who are vulgar and inappropriately rude.
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@peaam you literally brought tears to my eyes
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I know I'm late to the party, but just wanted to give my 2 cents.
Sometimes clients can be asshats!Sometimes clients can be awesome. I happy to read the original asshat was fired, I'm also very happy for Tom!
This is a fantastic community! Thanks for being part of it everyone. You all are what make DevRant so awesome! -
Faith in humanity restored!
Kudos to @peaam for standing up for your colleague like that! -
@peaam fuckin goose bumps dude, great job!!
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As a young Dev, it's nice to know there are Sr devs out there like this. My Sr dev did something similar for me once. Was getting yelled at by an angry client who refused to listen to anything. Sr dev hung up on him, rejected his next phone call, then called him back and told him he would either listen or figure it out himself. Needless to say, Sr dev had my back. Keep kicking ass, OP!!!
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@nblackburn hear, hear!
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Tell your guy to beware of @Laurens, he's really into toolbars! :D
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You're so wroonggg brooo tooolbarz please they're AWESOME bcauze u get to google, to bing, to bing with google it's gr8!
On a serious note, I am sorry for what happened to that man. I know it isn't something extremely heartbreaking, but getting treated so shit while you're trying to do your best can really set you low, especially when it involves something you like so dearly. -
@peaam the world can always use more people like you
And this community is the best ever, nothing but friendly and helpful people here, loving it!
You'll stay in Tom's memory for sure
I wish you both some happy coding hours ;D -
@cyberlord64 welcome to devrant.
Rant about your problems, it'll make I better, even if it's just slightly -
@peaam this gave me goose bumps.
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@peaam
He can't quit his job every time he bumps into an asshat. He'll have to toughen up a bit and learn how to handle them. He should remember that he is the expert in the field, not them. If they knew what the knows they wouldn't need him and that makes him powerful. -
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If Facebook is joining the dating app market 6 years after Tinder, these gentlemen should have their brand new toolbar and you should be fine with it. You guys are not here to ask silly questions.
I hope it will feature useful integrations with Yahoo search bar and MSN Messenger, too.
Cheers,
•?((¯°·._.• h¥ρ€я •._.·°¯))؟• -
@peaam
This is an amazing story. If you were in my team, I would have nicknamed you Captain America for watching Tom's back.
I am sure your workplace is a great place that gives you courage to stand up against your main client for your team mates. -
@peaam First rant to get 3000++! :D
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You did more than right, we are developers and customers, market not lacking for us, we do not have to subject us (in fact no one is...) to these types of behavior, mainly tolerate this kind of behavior with the less experienced. Regardless of the beginners talk some nonsense or wrong, we must always be patient and treat them with greater education possible.
Today you teach someone, tomorrow you can learn from someone, nobody knows everything and we all have a lot to teach and share.
Thank you for your honorable attitude with our fellow professionals. -
IT is a tough world to step into, and young developers often doubt their own abilities when facing complex scenario / complex chats... and they shouldn't! Mistakes are part of life anyway!
I have to say, I'm quite impressed you told the client that you would terminate the contract. Not sure if any of my boss (previous or present) would do that for any employee..
Brave man ! 👏🏼 -
Finally found the finale. That was amazing, rare, and inspiring. Completely awesome how you stood up for Tom and how the company's CEO did the right thing.
It will be a turning point in Tom's and your career (yours in leadership and mentorship, Tom's in faith in his peers/boss).
I teared up with the others. -
@BlueWilson My man... you wouldn't believe the mileage the company gets from our squad of cobol, visual basic and natural devs. I swear you can hear the sales team moan from the 14th floor when they get a call about legacy software
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Such disrespect for toolbars! Just kidding :D Nicely done. Being a junior dev I’ve been exposed to similar situations (although not that bad) and would appreciate a senior stepping in like that but unfortunately don’t really have someone like that in my company as they’ve pretty much hired only juniors. I’m thankful they hired me as a junior but am missing that experience from a more seasoned dev :-/
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Very well done, you big, bold, handsome senior developer. Kudos!
Many times a client comes up with unrealistic expectations that leave the team baffled. The juniors are obviously scared to fight back because they think they will lose the client but losing a client who is not ready to listen to the team's feedback is not really a loss.
Even at tecHindustan, we value our employees just like we value our clients.
Keep up the great work, Peaam! -
@whatsgaming have you joined yesterday?
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@binarybaba Yupp, im stuck in giant spaghetti where everything breaks down like a domino when you add a fuckin checkbox, i found pile of hidden bugs of previous dev, and i have feature request where every bug is revealing now and im stuck at weekend fixing not mine business. Noone stands by me to say that it needs giant refactor before proceeding to develop new feature, or that new feature will take 2 times longer than expected. Instead im having calls with client and i need to eat ton of shit from them.
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@abishekg Pta nahi kya hua hoga
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I don't know who you are, or which company you work for. But trust me you have my greatest respect. In today's times where these big IT companies demotivate and demoralize people by saying that they're replaceable and are treated like sh!t, the IT world needs more people like you who would stand up to these morons and show who's the real boss - us developers who work day and night to complete the whimsical demands of the clients.
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@peaam Having been on devRant just a few weeks, finally reading this, and having already been a true believer in the power of complain/support/overcome, I’m gonna add a “Wow”. Just freaking awesome. Worker solidarity and human decency. I just might have to allow my hardened steel case of cynicism to fissure just a scoach. Thanks for putting this out there. Huzzahs all around.
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@peaam fun fact:
this has been the first rant I've read here.
you made my day that time. and you still do. -
I feel for that guy because even after years I feel like that guy put there in front of idiots.
I explicitly asked to wherever I work to not make me do public relationship/consulting/PM because I don't tolerate people.
But they seems to keep putting me to it.
I don't understand people.
You explicitly tell them you're shit at doing PR and they put you back to it.
The bright side is that this will make up his bones for future idiots.
A young guy I work with burst into tears today, I had no idea what happened so I tried to comfort him and ask what was up.
It appears his main client had gone nuts with him because they wanted him to make an internet toolbar (think Ask.com) and he politely informed them toolbars doesn't really exist anymore and it wouldn't work on things like modern browsers or mobile devices.
Being given a polite but honest opinion was obviously something the client wasn't used to and knowing the guy was a young and fairly inexperienced, they started throwing very personal insults and asking him exactly what he knows about things (a lot more than them).
So being the big, bold, handsome senior developer I am, I immediately phoned the client back and told them to either come speak to me face-to-face and apologise to him in person or we'd terminate there contract with immediate effect. They're coming down tomorrow...
So part my rant, part a rant on behalf of a young developer who did nothing wrong and was treated like shit, I think we've all been there.
We'll see how this goes! Who the hell wants a toolbar anyway?!
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