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Search - "desktop environments"
Not sure what Linux Desktop to use? Use this handy guide:
- GNOME: when you want no tray icons, themes that break every minor GTK release, and extensions for basic features (that are buggy.)
- KDE: pretty go-Segmentation Fault
- DWM/Awesome/i3/etc.: when you feel like the time you spent learning Vim wasn't wasteful enough
- XFCE: when you want one update per decade and poor Systemd support.
- LXQt: the biggest positive is that it doesn't use GTK.
- Cinnamon: when you like GNOME 3 but you want a different menu
- Deepin: when you want a desktop with the build quality of an HP laptop.
Aren't sure whether to use Xorg or Wayland?
- Xorg: if you want to absurdly fuck up your touchscreen, pick this one.
- Wayland: if you want to screw up most of your apps, too bad; this won't work with your proprietary drivers. If only it did.
What distro to use?
- Ubuntu: if you want to break your system with PPAs, check out this one.
- Debian: when you want Ubuntu except with more out of date packages
- Redhat: when you want Debian except with more out of date packages
- ElementaryOS: wait, someone actually made a properly designed Linux UI?
- Arch Linux: the only thing that doesn't make me sick anymore.
- Slackware: "that exists still really?"
- Gentoo: when you hate systemd more than waiting 4 days to compile Firefox on every release.
... I love Linux. I do. But it is very taxing to get things comfortable for me anymore. I feel like the Linux Desktop is in a period of flux and it's painful to be a part of right now.24
For fucks sake, just because you don't know anything besides JS, you don't have to constantly complain how it's "so fucked up"!
Yeah there's a lot of frameworks. So what? Python has 50+ wsgi frameworks just for server-side apps, Linux has literary hundreds of desktop environments, C++ has over 30 actively-developed UI frameworks, and let's not even get started on CMSs or game engines. And each language comes with its own dependency management or two, NPM discourages static linking & bundling dependencies until the very end, while some others only recommend dynamically linking widely-available dependencies & always bundling the remaining ones.
Software development is constantly evolving, and for most time there's no right or wrong approach. And when one approach is chosen over another, there's a reason for that. Imagine you just found a perfect library for your use case, but some idiot decided to only offer minified code with bundled jQuery? Or a different idiot made it impossible to have multiple versions of a dependency on your system without resorting to one of various third-party hacks?
Every language has a ton of various frameworks & libraries that ultimately do the same thing, every language has a bunch of design choices you probably don't understand at first, and every language was made with a purpose and the fact that you're using it proves it achieved that.
Last but not least, all devs had to learn about quirks in various languages, and they're fucking tired when someone who barely knows a language tries to act smart going "ahaha how the fuck 0.1 + 0.2 isn't 0.3".10
Some people go to party's on the weekend, some people try new desktop environments. Pantheon this weekend !10
This is real. I Used to hop distros like a mad man and I stopped hopping after installing arch and started hopping between desktop environments and window managers. Source: r/linuxmastrrrace17
For almost twenty years I have sheltered in the protective, safe, warm bosom of Debian. For a long time, it had the largest body of available software of all the distros, and by far when Ubuntu rose to prominence. So I used Ubuntu for years for the depth of package availability, and because if something esoteric was released, it would almost certainly come out first on Ubuntu, and sometimes only on Ubuntu. I was happy. Things were good.
But over time, Ubuntu and even Debian started to lean harder and harder on gnome, which I've always hated, along with all desktop environments, as they obscure the system from the user, and introduce graphical layers of abstraction, so the actual job of getting things done becomes a black art, hidden behind gnome-specific tools. This is my preference, and It's been disheartening in recent years to see the direction the desktop appears to be taking.
Then I joined devrant in 2017, and until then, I had heard peripherally about Arch, but never more than that. I had not heard of Manjaro at all. People started posting success stories and happy screenshots, and I was intrigued.
In 2018 I built a windows machine to use for parsec streaming games that wouldn't run on my linux rig. For not a great deal of money, I built a solid machine that's unequivocally better than any machine I've ever used, and installed windows on it. For a while, I was pleased. I had the best of both worlds: a windows box to stream some games from, and a linux desktop for everything else.
But after a couple months, as proton matured, I found fewer and fewer reasons to use my windows machine. My use of it declined to where I was last week: it had been months since I'd even powered it on. It was the most powerful machine I've ever used, and it was just collecting dust behind the TV in the living room. The full realization came to me while I was fighting a battle in the Gnome Takeover War, and I realized: I don't have to do this.
I pulled the newer machine out from behind the TV and installed Manjaro architect edition on it. The flexibility in the install was staggering. I am using nilfs2 for my /boot and / partitions: an option that Ubuntu has never offered. Normally they just default you into the garbage ext4 filesystem, and if you can dig deep enough, you can install with something else, though you have to really want it, in my opinion.
But Manjaro has been a dream-come-true. Pacman is easily the best package manager I have ever used, and pamac's intuitive and easy commands are a great view into AUR. Booting into the virtual console instead of a display manager has been wonderful too. On Ubuntu, I had to disable systemd's version of runlevel 5 to even get it working. But I just popped my xrandr script into my .xinitrc, and X opens with startx in less than a second. On Ubuntu, it takes about 5-10 seconds.
This has nothing to do with Manjaro, but I also switched to Radeon for this install, and I couldn't be happier about that. No more "installing" nvidia's drivers.
No more gnome. No more PPAs. No more settling. I am a Manjaro user now. Full stop. Thank you, devrant, for bringing it to my attention.11
The DE life cycle of every Linux hobbyist:
1. Let's work with Unity.... it's so blah
2. Let's check out XFCE.... it does its job, but it needs more zing
3. Let's check out KDE...aah, my poor battery.
4. Let's check out LXDE.... Can you be any more boring?
5. Let's check out Pantheon.... This is perfect, but I'm tired of using a tweak tool to even enable minimize and maximize
6. Let's go to Gnome 3...Ah never mind
7. Let's go to Cinnamon... Blurgh, It reminds me of Windows
8. Let's go to MATE....Hmm, Mutiny layout?!! It reminds me of Unity. Wonder if Unity 8 has made any progress!
9. Go back to Step 1.16
How many of you uses Linux? I personally used for the first time Antergos (that discontinued, memed, arch based distros) with kde, then I started using Manjaro with gnome, as Manjaro was unsupported by most of the communities because it was arch based, I decided to move to Ubuntu, I sticked around on Ubuntu with gnome and then I installed i3, omg I loved i3 so much, after months of Ubuntu with i3 I decided to try new desktop environments/distros, so I installed xubuntu, xfce was boring, but efficient, just perfect! Then I installed kde neon, just to try it out! Now I still have kde neon and I'm thinking about trying Debian!
What about you?15
So this was going to be a comment but damn!!!!
Windows is seriously about making life harder for power users now, every fucking update lately is moving more easy to change things and fucking hiding them inside hidden menus or stupid links that don’t make sense. I mean fuck I just want to turn on dual screen with my laptop (because for some bizarre reason, just showing the desktop on the plugged in monitor is so hard to do automatically, especially since I just plugged a hdmi cable in) and the fucker was gone with nothing but a “detect screens” button before it would use an external screen.
Fuck I’m so close to pulling the plug on windows, but Linux just doesn’t sell me for daily use (yet... it’s getting there though)
The fucking forced updates (yes I consider a random bsod due to a system interrupt, then as it reboots magically has updates awaiting... a forced update) are starting to get to me, the fucking thing half crashing and not responding due to a network transfer of files (the fucker was 5GB)
If it wasn’t for my gaming needs and someone can show me a very good alternative to MS Visio (I haven’t really found one yet) then I would swap over and just adjust to the not so great (imo) desktop environments.7
What's the dystopian future you fear in software and development?
Personally, I already see all the desktop environments implemented on top of a HTML engine.17
It kills me that a lot of people on here choose Linux distros based solely on desktop environments. Its Linux guys, you can make it whatever you want. You should decide between distros because of package managers or frequent updates or active communities, not because of how pretty it is out of the box. You can make it as pretty as you want.5
More often than not, I hear that the mission-critical stuff in Linux is done by paid people, the folks that work from 9 to 5 with a fixed time/resource schedule. Is software in Linux all like that? Say for example, Linux (kernel), systemd, Xorg, all the desktop environments, LibreOffice, Mozilla, Chromium and such.
The reason why I'm asking is because I kind of feel like the premise behind Linux "free, libre, *philanthropic*" and such is kinda wrong. Especially the latter. Do the people in the mission-critical stuff really care about its stability any more than commercial software devs do? Sure the projects driven by personal needs that are published are philanthropic in their nature, I'm having some of those too. But those are all non-critical and maintained as such. The stuff that's behind the steering wheel however? I'm not sure...
In essence, is the mission-critical part of the Linux ecosystem - however open-source it is - any different from other commercial software products QA-wise?5
Inspired by @NoMad. My philosophy is that technology is a means to and ends. We’re a tool oriented species. As it relates to software and hardware, they should be your means to achieve your ends without you needing to think. Think of riding a bicycle or driving a car. You aren’t particularly conscious of them - you just adjust input based on heuristics and reflex - while your doing the activity.
For a long time Software has been horrendously bad at this. There is almost always some setup involved; you need to front-load a plan to get to your ends. Funny enough we’re in the good days now. In the early days of GUI you did have to switch modes to achieve different things until input peripherals got better.
I’ve been using windows from 95 and to this day, though it’s gotten better it’s not trivial to setup an all in one printer and scan a document - just yesterday I had to walk my mother through it and she’s somewhat proficient. Also when things break it’s usually nightmare to fix, which is why fresh installing it periodically is s meme to this day. MS still goes to great lengths with their UI so that most people can still get most of their daily stuff done without a manual.
I started Linux in University when I was offered an intro course on the shell. I’ve been using it professionally ever since. While it’s good at making you feel powerful, it requires intricate knowledge to achieve most things. Things almost never go smoothly no matter how much practice you have, especially if you need to compile tools from source. It also has very little in the ways of safe guards to prevent you from hurting yourself. Sure you might be able to fix it if you press harder but it’s less stress to just fresh install. There is also nothing, NOTHING more frustrating than following documentation to the T and it just doesn’t work! It is my day job to help companies with exactly this. Can’t really give an honest impression of the GUI ux as the distros have varying schools of thoughts with their desktop environments. Even The popular one Ubuntu did weird things for a while. In my humble opinion, *nix is better at powering the internet than being a home computer your grandma can use.
Now after being in the thick of things, priorities change and you really just want to get things done. In 2015 I made the choice to go Mac. It has been one of my more interesting experiences. Honestly, I wish more distros would adopt its philosophy. Elementary only adopted the dock. It’s just so intuitive. How do you install an application? You tap the installer, a box will pop up then you drag the icon to the application folder (in the same box) boom you are done. No setup wizards. How to uninstall? Drag icon from app folder to trash can. Boom done. How to open your app? Tap launch pad and you see all your apps alphabetically just click the one you want. You can keep your frequent ones on the dock. Settings is just another app in launchpad and everything is well labeled. You can even use your printers scanner without digging through menus. You might have issues with finder if your used to windows though and the approach to maximizing and minimizing windows will also get you for a while.
When my Galaxy 4 died I gave iPhone a chance with the SE. I can tell you that for most use cases, there is no discernible difference between iOS and modern android outside of a few fringe features. What struck me though was the power of an ecosystem. My Mac and iPhone just work well together. If they are on the same network they just sync in the background - you need to opt in. My internet went down, my iMac saw that my iPhone had 4g and gave me the option to connect. One click your up. Similar process with s droid would be multi step. You have airdrop which just allows you to send files to another Apple device near you with a tap without you even caring what mechanism it’s using. After google bricked my onHub router I opted to get Apples airport series. They are mostly interchangeable and your Mac and iOS device have a native way to configure it without you needing to mess with connecting to it yourself and blah. Setup WiFi on one device, all your other Apple devices have it. Lots of other cool stuff happen as you add more Apple devices. My wife now as a MacBook, an IPad s d the IPhone 8. She’s been windows android her life but the transition has been sublime. With family sharing any software purchase works for all of us, and not just apples stuff like iCloud and music, everything.
Hate Apple all you want but they get the core tenet that technology should just work without you thinking. That’s why they are the most valued company in the world14
I'm a fan of Linux, and have used many distros (arch, ubuntu, debian, fedora, mint, centos, rhl) and many desktop environments (KDE, Gnome, Cinnamon, xfce, Enlightenment) before asking this question.
But every single one of these desktop environments always have felt slow to respond in some cases, where I click something and it doesn't open/close immediately, or i double click something but it fails to open or select something. basically I'm not confident my actions on the GUI will have guaranteed, quick responses within reasonable time. I've never ever had this issue with Microsoft OSes (keeping aside the many badly coded softwares which hang or crash). I'm not talking about specific softwares, this is just general usage of opening settings and using the file manager, window menus.
I'm pretty sure my hardware is not the issue. I've run everything on the same rig. And this has always kept me from fully committing myself to a Linux distro. But I can never be sure about display drivers, as they're not identical. But the issues in Linux has been noted by me for many years. So I doubt it's the drivers either.
Is there anybody who agrees with me and know why Linux is the way it is like that, or is this just me facing this annoyance?13
Just installed Arch for my first time. Using lxde right now but sadly theres now way I can rotate my 2nd monitor (since I have it vertical). What desktop environments do you guys use? Should be lightweight/fast/not many animations and shit.14
My laptop is 14 inch 1080p resolution display. None of the desktop environments scales correctly. Most of the time the font will ne too small or webpages on chrome looks weird.I want the display to look when on windows 10. I really want to switch to linux(gnome) but this is hogging me.13
I have been testing out Manjaro and I have to say I'm impressed! Im currently running it on a 2009 hp pavillion(1.8Ghz CPU 2GB ram) and it is super responsive and even ran intellij! Gradle took a while but that's to be expected!
Should I switch my main os from Ubuntu to Manjaro? I need reasons for and against!12
Finally did it, finally installed Ubuntu on my fucking desktop and the transition is not as bad as I thought. I just have to install my dev environments now. C, PHP, SQL, C# (.NET Core)6
Spent all day testing different desktop environments and themes/icons. Finally settled for Vanilla Ubuntu with the Budgie-Desktop environment, arc-theme dark and paper icons. What are you running?3
Thinking about installing a Linux distro on my home computer as the second OS. Any recommendations on which distro to use? I'm not a total beginner, I just haven't used any desktop environments for Linux yet. I'm currently having a look at Arch + Budgie - any previous experiences?4
It's really strange to me that display servers/window managers (Xorg, Wayland, etc) aren't locked to given desktop environments (GNOME, KDE, Unity, Cinnamon, etc). It doesn't make sense to me that they are separate and not optimized together.2
Just bought a Chromebook Pixel. Love the hardware - Chromebooks in general are a great way to get a Linux laptop with guaranteed driver support.
But why is it still so hard to get decent HiDPI support in Linux (or for that matter Windows) desktop environments?
I realise Apple had an advantage in using vector-based Display Postscript, but massively divergent screen sizes and resolutions have been around for YEARS now, so why is it still such a faff?1
Since there are so many Arch users, what kind of desktop environments are you running? I've been running Gnome3/Wayland and it's awesome, although I get a bit of screen tear, but it's tolerable.4
It's always a matter of much is there to do and in what language...
There is the IDE-Zone, which is dominated by IntelliJ (CLion be praised when you do Rust or C++) for large stuff and heavy refactorings.
Always disputted by VS Code with synced settings. It's nice and comfy and has every imaginable language supported good enough, especially when its smaller change in native code or web/scripting stuff.
Then there is the "small changes" space, where Vim and VS Code struggle whos faster or which way sticks better in my brain...
might be you SCP stuff down from a box and edit it to re-upload, or you use the ever-present vi (no "m" unfortunately)
sometimes things are more easy for multi-caret editing (Ctrl-D or Alt-J), and sometimes you just want to ":%s/foo/bar/g" in vim.
I am sure that each of these things are perfectly possible in each of the editors, but there is just reflexes in my editor choices.
I try to stay flexible and discover strenghts of each one of my weapon of choice and did change the favorites. (Atom, Brackets, Eclipse, Netbeans, ...)
However there are some things I tried often and they are simply not working for me...
might for you. I don't care. and I'll just use some space to piss people off, because this is supposed to be a rant:
nano just feels wrong, emacs is pestilence from satan that was meant for tentacles instead of fingers, sublime does cost money but should not, gives me a constant guilty feeling (and I don't like that) that, and all the editors from various desktop environments are wasted developer ressources.
When debugging/troubleshooting, what does your desktop look like?
I have a total of 8 production environments to look after, each of which have their appropriate dev environments. Troubleshooting for me typically starts with VisualVM, 6-8 Putty sessions across the environments, at least one dbms session, WinSCP with at least 4 sessions, text editor with minimum of five open files and at least thirty tabs open in Chrome. Oh yeah, forgot outlook and Skype (typically with at least three team mates and usually a group chat).
All is well when I'm in the zone, but good forbid for someone to ask me to show them the article/bug report I just read that sent me down the rabbit hole.1
Having some issues with my laptop seizing up in graphical linux desktop environments, probably due to some peripheral power management. I saw there was a bios setting for "make linux work" but I couldn't find mention of it in the manual (why is this usually so hard to find, anyway?), so I googled a bit before I messed with it.
Worst case I guess I'd just reset the bios, but it always blows my mind seeing issues like these go seemingly unaddressed. That's a 12 page discussion from 2018 where you brick your laptop - a fairly high end one at that - by flipping a bool and the latest response is "Same issue here".
Is it just PR practice to not acknowledge these things or is it likely that they are legitimately unaware? Does it not get escalated properly or do they reckon there's not enough benefit to address it?
Whatever the case, my faith in Lenovo is certainly starting to show cracks. I used to see it as the "correct" laptop brand, but nowadays I'm equally iffy about all of them.3