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After interviewing 3 candidates for software today, I have officially decided its time to seriously pursue creating a YouTube channel with a complete set of series to learn programming MY WAY... not the short cut way... this will go all the way to beginning and start the person up with a solid foundation to build on... I’m going to pour my knowledge into these series.
The education system has failed too many in the real world... to many people I have interviewed they think they know have a degree but are clueless.. this is unacceptable and a waste... AND way too often I see online “learn programming in 30 days or learn programming in a day”... fuck off it’s all lies .. all wrong.. wrong methods wrong philosophy and I’m done with it...
I’m set on doing it this time, I’ve put it off too long, and longer I put it off the more I see shitty interviews! Time to fix it68 -
I've found sites like Udemy/Khanacademy/Codecademy/Brilliant/Edx to be very useful — possibly more useful than expensive education.
But they still need:
1. Better correction/update mechanisms. Human teachers make mistakes and material gets outdated, and while online teachers are rectified faster than classroom teachers, the procedure is still not optimal. Knowledge should be a bit more like a verified wiki.
2. Some have great interactive coding environments, some have great videos, some have awesome texts, some have helpful communities. None has it all. In the end, I don't want to learn a new language by writing code in my browser. It could all be integrated/synced to the point where IDEs have plugins which are synced to online videos, with tests and exercises built in, up to a social network where you could send snippets for review and add reviews to other people's code.
3. Accreditation. Some platforms offer this against payment, but I think those platforms often feel very old school (pun intended), with fixed schedules, marks and enrollments. Self paced is a must.
4. Depth is important. Current online courses are often a bit introductory. We need more advanced courses about algorithms, theoretical computer science, code design, relational algebra, category theory, etc. I get that it's about supply/demand, but we will eventually need to have those topics covered.
I do believe that for CS, full online education will eventually win from the classroom — it's still in its infancy, but has more potential to grow into correct, modern education.10 -
Here’s one that has been the reason that I’ve not been on devRant for a while.
School counselor decides to come to me saying “Oh hey, it’s your last semester and at this rate you’re not gonna graduate bud” Why the duck couldn’t you tell me earlier?! Fine, fuck you, just give me FOUR extra online classes. ELA, Game Dev, Web Des, and Criminology. Alright, ELA and Game finished with no issue. Then comes Web.
This class is a complete piece of dog shit wrapped in HTML5 memorization hell. I don’t give a single fuck what a scrum is, or that this bitch doesn’t know how to ask her client if she can use their logo, the dumbass. How about you teach me more about actual STRUCTURE AND FUNCTION, HUH? MAYBE SOME EDUCATION THAT DOESN’T INVOLVE MEMORIZING ALL THE FUCKING HTML TAGS EVER?!
I am literally brute forcing my way through the tests. Failed? Open the lesson, close it, test reset and unlocked. Try again until you pass. Fuck this class in its miserably over complicated yet somehow over simplified existence.
Now I’m gonna go get some goddamn sleep. I’ve been at this shit for hours.6 -
You guys work from home because of coronavirus?
Me on the other hand, have to work on weekend on my desk to finish an urgent project, it’s for the ministry of education (who closed all schools and launched an online courses) to monitor the effectiveness of the new platform and fix some bugs on it.1 -
Sooooo ok ok. Started my graduate program in August and thus far I have been having to handle it with working as a manager, missing 2 staff member positions at work, as well as dealing with other personal items in my life. It has been exhausting beyond belief and I would not really recommend it for people working full time always on call jobs with a family, like at a..
But one thing that keeps my hopes up is the amount of great knowledge that the professors pass to us through their lectures. Sometimes I would get upset at how highly theoretical the items are, I was expecting to see tons of code in one of the major languages used in A.I(my graduate program has a focus in AI, that is my concentration) and was really disappointed at not seeing more code really. But getting the high level overview of the concepts has been really helpful in forcing me to do extra research in order to reconnect with some of the items that I had never thought of before.
If you follow, for example, different articles or online tutorials representing doing something simple like generating a simple neural network, it sometimes escapes our mind how some of the internal concepts of the activity in question are generated, how and why and the mathematical notions that led researchers reach the conclusions they did. As developers, we are sometimes used to just not caring about how sometimes a thing would work, just as long as it works "we will get back to this later" is a common thing in most tutorials, such as when I started with Java "don't worry about what public static main means, just write it up for now, oh and don't worry about what System.out.println() is, just know that its used to output something into bla bla bla" <---- shit like that is too common and it does not escape ML tutorials.
Its hard man, to focus on understanding the inner details of such a massive field all the time, but truly worth it. And if you do find yourself considering the need for higher education or not, well its more of a personal choice really. There are some very talented people that learn a lot on their own, but having the proper guidance of a body of highly trained industry professionals is always nice, my professors take the time to deal with the students on such a personal level that concepts get acquired faster, everyone in class is an engineer with years of experience, thus having people talk to us at that level is much appreciated and accelerates the process of being educated.
Basically what I am trying to say is that being exposed to different methodologies and theoretical concepts helps a lot for building intuition, specially when you literally have no other option but to git gud. And school is what you make of it, but certainly never a waste.2 -
One of the online education tools my high school used had client-side validation for test answers
As if that wasn't bad enough, the correct answers were literally marked by the CSS class 'correct', meaning that any idiot who could figure out how to open the devtools could see the correct answers
Thankfully, this program was ditched before it was used for anything major2 -
If taking notes is an art, then I am definitely not an artist.
It gets more difficult when trying to take notes while watching a video.
How the fuck to go about it? I have yet to strike a balance between “listening to learn” and “listening to take notes”.
Both are very different things and can’t be done at the same time. What happens then is that I end up watching a video twice, or end up without any notes.7 -
I'm curious...
I ended up in a job in which I'm the sole developer (state education databases). Good, well paying job. No complaints there, but I haven't been part of a Dev team since my college days almost 15 years ago. I keep up my skills in personal projects.
I use git, like most developers these days, to track my code and move it between my desktop and laptop. However, while I have a GitHub account, I tend to be very"shy" with my code. I usually won't start putting the repository online until the application I'm working on has its intended cute functionality at least... Functional.
That said, I've read articles that suggest developers should almost start their project repositories online right from the start.
My question is... Are there any others like me, holding back their code until it's functional, or do most of you code completely in public (for open source projects, anyway)?3 -
Take the bitter truth @bittersweet told so sweetly.
Add this: If you want great software developers, don't put them into a dark room and teach them the theory of software development. Teach them the longing for the wide and endless space of possibilities.
> Quote after Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
So basically give them practical problems which them to desire the theory. Provide an integration of open source contributions into education. Online and offline. -
This is why we can never have enough software developers
It's true. No matter how many people learn to program, there will never be enough people who know how to program. They don't have to be very good at it either. It is now a required skill.
Minimum wage in first world countries is way above 5$ per hour. A Raspberry PI 3B costs 40$, or at most 1 day of work for the worst paid jobs. And it will run for years, and do routine tasks up to thousands of times faster than any employee. With that, the only excuse that people still do routine tasks, is the inaccessibility of coder time.
Solution: everybody should know how to write code, even at the simplest level.
Blue-collar jobs: they will be obsolete. Many of them already are. The rest are waiting for their turn.
Marketing people - marketing is online. They need to know how to set up proper tracking in JS, how to get atomic data in some form of SQL, how to script some automated adjustments via APIs for ad budgets, etc. Right now they're asking for developers to do that. If they learn to do that, they'll be an independent, valued asset. Employers WILL ask for this as a bonus.
Project Managers - to manage developers, they need to know what they do. They need to know code, they have to know their way around repositories.
QA staff - scripted tests are the best, most efficient tests.
Finance - dropping Excel in favor of R with Markdown, Jupyter Notebooks or whatever, is much more efficient. Customizing / integrating their ERP with external systems is also something they could do if they knew how to code.
Operations / Category Management - most of it would go obsolete with more companies adopting APIs as a way to exchange important information, rather than phone calls and e-mails.
Who would not be replaced or who wouldn't benefit from programming? Innovative artists.
A lot of it might not be now now, but the current generation will see it already in their career.
If we educate people today, without advanced computer skills and some coding, then we are educating future deadbeats.
With all this, all education should include CS. And not just as a mandatory field or something. Make it more accessible, more interesting, more superficial if needed. Go straight to use cases, show its effectiveness in the easiest way possible. Inquisitive minds will fill in the blanks, and everyone else will at least know how to automate a part of their work. -
A bit late.. and not much about how to learn to code..but more of a figuring out if the kid has a right mind set to do so..
If the kid is not the type to question everything, not resourceful, not a logical/critical thinker, gives up easily and especially if not interested in how things work then being a dev is most probably not for them.. they can still persue coding, but it will end badly..
From my experience, people who have a better education than me, but lack those skills turned out to be a crappy dev.. not interested in the best tool to complete the tasks, just making 'something', adding more shit to the already shitty stack.. and being happy with that.. which of course is not the best way to do things around here..or in life!!
Soo.. if the kid shows all that and most importantly shows interest in learning to code.. throw him the java ultimate edition book and see what happens.. joke!
There are plenty of apps thath can get you started (tried mimo, but being devs yourself it's probably not so hard to check some out and weed out the bad ones) that explain simple logic and syntax.. there is w3schools that explains basics quite well and lets you tinker online with js and python..
so maybe show them these and see what happens.. If it will pick their interest, they will soon start to ask the right questions.. and you can go from there..
If the kids are not the 'evil spawns' of already dev parents or don't have crazy dev aunties and uncles, then they will have to work things out themselves or ask friends... or seek help online (the resourceful part comes here).. so google or any flavour of search engines is their friend..
Just hope they don't venture to stack overflow too soon or they will want to kill themselves /* a little joke, but also a bit true.. */
Anyhow, if the kid is exhibiting 'dev traits' it is not even a question how to introduce it to the coding.. they will find a way.. if not, do not force them to learn coding "because it's in and makes you a lot of moneyz"..
As with other things in life, do not force kids to do anything that you think will be best for them.. Point them in direction, show them how it might be fun and usefull, a little nudge in the right direction.. but do not force.. ever!!!
And also another thing to consider.. most of the documentation and code is written in english.. If they are not proficient, they will have a hard time learning, checking docs, finding answers.. so make sure they learn english first!!
Not just for coding, knowing english will help them in life in general. So maaaaybe force them to learn this a bit..
One day my husband came to me and asked me how he can learn.. and if it's too late for him to learn coding.. that he found some app and if I can take a look and tell him what I think, if it is an ok app to learn..
I was both flattered and stumped at the same time..
Explained to him that in my view, he is a bit old to start now, at least to be competitive on the market and to do this for a living, but if it interests him for som personal projects, why not.. you're never too old to start learning and finding a new hobby..
Anyhow, I've pointed out to him that he will have to better his english in order to be able to find the answers to questions and potential problems.. and that I'm happy to help where and when I can, but most of the job will be on him.
So yeah, showed him some tutorials, explained things a bit.. he soon lost interest after a week and was mindblown how I can do this every day..
And I think this is really how you should introduce coding to kids.. show them some easy tutorials, explain simple logic to them.. see how they react.. if they pick it up easily, show them something more advanced.. if they lose interest, let them be.
To sum up:
- check first if they really want to learn this or this is something they're forced to do (if latter everything you say is a waste of everybodys time)
- english is important
- asking questions (& questioning the code) is mandatory so don't be afraid to ask for help
- admitting not knowing something is the first step to learning
- learn to 'google' & weed out the crap
- documentation is your friend
- comments & docs sometimes lie, so use the force (go check the source)
- once you learn the basics its just a matter of language flavour..adjust some logic here, some sintax there..
- if you're stuck with a problem, try to see it from a different angle
- debugging is part of coder life, learn to 'love' it4 -
We here in India are going through a nightmare. We have our CS syllabus from 1990s, we still write lab records, and solve 10 pineapples problem for placement training. Nobody really bothers about actual skill or knowledge, are like sheep behind feed. Passion is taken for granted and overruled by the “experts”.
A good education in CS starts from the hunger to solve problems that would matter to people. Future of CS education is in online courses that give out ideas to generate more ideas and inspire programming not as a subject but as a basic need of the hour. People should love the fact that CS is queer in many ways but is very powerful. Basics are important but the education must hold on to what is currently happening in the world.
World will be doomed when we start making students study the same thing what we did, except it is called Math. A subject has to be dynamic. If anybody agrees what I say, spread it so that world will understand what learning means... -
My dream project is to revamp education, be it through an app of some sort or by any other mean.
Can't justify spending a quarter of your life in a place you usually don't want to be, listening to stuff you can't relate, being taught by people who wasn't born to teach and being tested for things you will never use and couldn't care less.
Come on, there has to be a better way! And this goes beyond online courses.1 -
Senile Web login services from 2009 grind my gears, and tertiary education administration snorts the powder.
Trying to apply online at a local university. They didn't have place for me 3 years ago so I went elsewhere but for my 4th year I have to go to them.
Because of my previous application I still have a student number. Online application says I have to log in to another portal and apply there. Then that portal now requests a Pin that I was never sent, and the "request new pin" function doesn't work because apparently my email is not in the database for my ID. My email was 100000% sure on my application, but some dingus never inserted it into the system.
Why not just start a "new" application you ask? Because the New Applications portal won't allow it for my ID number since it has a student number already. Now I either have to apply manually and pay the fee or wrangle Uni staff to reset my account.
I'm calling you, your slapdash JavaScript 1.2 code and your unhelpful staff out, Cape Peninsula University of Technology. -
!rant but a question...
I know that with the vast examples/tutorials online this may not be necessary, but I wanted to ask the community if you guys/gals would recommend going back to school to get a formal CS education or if it would be a waste of time, money, and resources compared to just using web based sources? I've tried the college thing 3 times when I was younger but couldn't concentrate and lacked the discipline to focus and finish classes. But I'm a bit older now and wanted to know if you would recommend going back to school or if time would be better spent performing self-study and learning from home?
I'm still extremely new to coding and programming and only have basic knowledge of actual coding and a lot of the theoretical stuff in programming is completely foreign to me. Like for example, how to optimize code. I know that refactoring code to have a smaller more efficient footprint is always desirable, when it doesn't interfere with readability, but I'm unaware of where/how to modify code to run efficiently. Of course that may be wayyy to advanced for my use cases anyway 😂.
I'm trying to teach myself python as it seems like a great language for starting out and getting to understand the concepts of programing. Plus, it can be used directly in my line of work as well as side projects that I wanted to try my hand at.
Thank you in advance for your recommendations everyone!2 -
Learned almost entirely from online tutorials, and this was starting 12+ years ago.
What little official education I had was barely any practical programming. -
I'll have to make some tough choices over the next 6 months. With my tech career beginning and my college education ramping up, time is of the essence, and the skills I develop now will be at the forefront of my future. So what does this have to do with Microsoft?
Well, the story begins in the Spring of 2016. Social Forums was about to turn a year old, Trump's campaign was ramping up, and I had just found my love for technology. With all my friends having phones, I had to get a phone and get working on development. The year before, Windows 10 was launched, and I was psyched. I found Microsoft's products to be underrated with potential. That day, I purchased a Lumia 640, upgraded it to Windows 10, and immediately began working. After another year-and-a-half gone by, I went from loving Microsoft, to defending Microsoft, to tolerating Microsoft. I could go on and on about the lousy structure, the privacy issues, the forced upgrades, the redundant developer platform, and other such issues that is leading me away from them. But if there is one thing they have proven over the years, is that the they are completely out of touch with its developers and its customers. They spent years ramping up their phones. They failed. They spend years ramping up their phones. They failed. They spend years ramping up their semi-annual OS updates. They failed. So why did they fail? It's not that they made the wrong prediction out of chance. They legitimately don't care about feedback. It's their way or the highway. This sounds vaguely familiar. They have been spending a decade ignoring feedback from the community because they want to become just like Apple. Right now, Apple LIVES off of brand loyalty and its stable, useful ecosystem. This cannot work for Microsoft as they don't have a lot of brand loyalty. But most of all, they don't have a working ecosystem. They have Windows Insiders, which provides them with hundreds of feedback messages per day. These include suggestions, bug reports, and constructive criticism. The feedback is public. You can have several pages of the same complaint, and they still won't do anything about it. They say they have a good relationship with their community, and that this Beta program helps Windows become better for all. But in the end, we are nothing more than a glorified unpaid labor force. They fired hundreds of professional debuggers just before the Insider Program took off. We are only here to provide bug reports for free. Now that their phones, AR headsets, browser, online services, and VR headsets are failing for all these reasons, I see little reason to develop for Windows anymore. I don't just mean their UWP and App Store platforms, I mean Windows as a whole. I'm definitely not a Mac guy either. I never see myself going to Mac either, as they are really no different in terms of how they treat their Developers and PC users. If things continue down this route, I will leave the platform all together. I've always wanted to be a Systems Programmer, so I don't really need an established paid platform to be successful. Even now, I'm not certain about leaving Windows altogether but as a developer, I need to find my place. Time is of the essence in my life, and I need to find out my place in the software world. Now I think it isn't on the Windows platform like I had dreamed it would be. But where do I go?10 -
Big ass company paying me fat stacks to remake their 3 important legacy projects (hospitals, gov, big companies) into another stack.
Will require me to no-life.
Or chill local medium sized company which creates apps to help museums, education and other wholesome shit.
Feels like i need to choose the big one because "carreer" but i am haunted by all the burn-out horror stories online.
Currently on my way to the latter for my last interview with them.3 -
I can't be the only person who feel that public/online education courses for programming is terrible. As far as I've seen it just teaches people bad practices. You're better off reading on your own.7
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