Don't need no bootcamps, I already know how to boot.

So I'm coming out of one that has a focus on this stack (JS [JQuery after weeks of Vanilla JS drilling in our heads, React], Java, MySQL, Python [Django, Bottle], HTML/CSS, and a few web security concepts (XSS, SQL injections).

The whole course has been 4 months learning, 3 weeks working on a final project. Next week is the presentation, so I think I can safely comment on the course.

We moved fast, but that's to be expected. Lecture in the mornings, exercises in the afternoons, assignments due at the beginning of each week. Constantly working towards it and improving. I have been working pretty hard. We were given some help, but had to get a lot of answers online (based God StackOverflow), but that's part of it.

We touched on some concepts like inheritance in JS, Python and Java, OOP and to be open to concepts we don't know so we should be thirsty for that knowledge.

In my off time, I've begun texting myself Node and really trying to double down on React because it seems useful. I realized I was more drawn to the backend, but I was comfortable in front end as well. (Just don't ask me to design anything, my eye for aesthetics/CSS sorcery is terrible.)

The overall experience has been pretty mixed, but we were mostly unsatisfied. We weren't given then help we were promised. The explanations weren't exactly crystal clear, so we would have to teach ourselves and each other quite a bit. We worked together a lot. Some people really fell behind, some caught up, some flew ahead and thrived. (I'm somewhere between caught up and thrived, I recognize where I stand.)

I'm happy I did a bootcamp, they aren't miracle programs, but they at least kick you into place that you are learning and need to continue to learn. (Just kinda wish I had done a different one.)

Feel free to ask about anything concerning it!

I'm fucking frustrated.

Almost Every project, almost every task I did in the past 6 months has been a failure or partly done. Even the most trivial of tasks take me hours to complete, after immense googling and copypasting.

I know that I'm a junior with less than a year of dev experience but it feels I'm traversing through hell itself. I truly love to program, have tremendous passion and want to be a professional dev but it seems destiny itself wants me to keep doing what I do best but hate(Sysadmining).

When will this nightmare end? When will I be able to accomplish anything I need with code with so much ease, like my dev friends do? How many more courses, bootcamps should I fucking attend and how many more tutorials to watch? When will be able to work at nights without falling asleep? When will I have a fucking dev job and freelance projects instead of being a goddamn server-managing monkey?

Graduating from a 12 week hacker bootcamp does not make you a "Sr." anything

When your plugins list in your newly "coded" WordPress site could use an infinity loader, that means you are probably​ one of those fucking two weeks fucking coding bootcamps miracles. Fuck, that's not how the website is done...

Why are most developers/software engineers so absolutely fucking shit at their craft?

I understand incompetence exists in every occupation but it seems in development the ratio of bad developers to good developers is like 9:1. There’s a serious lack of quality in this industry and it’s only further exacerbated by coding bootcamps and orgs like general assembly pumping out more dog shit

How are Coding Bootcamps and what are they like?

A little background:

I’ve been going to a University (have a year left for a CS degree) and I am so EXTREMELY frustrated. I thought I would get an education but it’s so underwhelming. 95% of it doesn’t involve programming and the classes that do are so elementary that I know more than the professors. By the end of my web design course we had been taught to center text, insert images, insert links, and how to use tables with a single day on CSS using colors.
The OOP courses are all the same, learn variables, types, conditionals, loops, classes, functions, and so forth. Python, C++, and Java. I taught all this to myself when I was 15, I’m 29 now.

I’ve recently gotten extremely interested into full stack web development. .NET Core, React, Typescript. I’m also working with Electron. I’m basically 100% self taught and spend almost every waking moment trying to learn more and apply it.

There’s only one person at my school who has the same passion as me and he’s the president at the coding club but is going into machine learning and big data (I’m the Secretary) and I just wish I could interact with more people who have the same passion. I would love to be challenged. I feel as if I spend more time trying to learn and diagnose problems then applying my knowledge because web development is so complicated when it comes to connecting everything together and I’m still relatively new to it (started like 4 months ago). I’m an extremely fast learner and extremely dedicated so I’m not worried about that being an issue.

I just really want to be a part of a community where I have people who can answer my questions and I don’t have to spend hours or days on google finding a solution to integrating Webpack or using typescript with react, and more. I want to feel challenged.

Can I get this from a boot camp? I recently listened to a podcast from Syntax and it really excited me but I don’t want to be let down again. Either way I’m finishing my degree to get that bullshit $60000 piece of paper but I wouldn’t mind taking a couple months off for something like this if it’s worth it.

I live in CO so if you have any Bootcamps in CO that you recommend, I’d love to hear it and take a trip to check it out in person.

Thanks a bunch!

When it's the first day of a QA Automation bootcamp and the other students think you should be the teacher.. =_=

I'm not going to lie, the surge of bootcamps really irks me. Not because I'm afraid of competition, or that I'm an elitest. Mainly because a lot of people who attend these bootcamps have no real interest in software engineering. I sometimes attend a meetup, and it's a beginner meetup. I try to help out. And a lot of people clearly have no patience for learning software engineering. I try to be encouraging, but sometimes I just want to be dick and tell them "Why the hell do you want to be a dev, if you're not interested in how computers work".

I'm an 100% myself taught developer. Granted I'm 38 and taught myself programming at 14. But it came out of an earnest desire and love for technology in general. So I never shyed away from learning? C and assembler? Bring it on. Theoretical computer science? I can get with that. For me I loved computer so much, that I was willing to learn about anything in the realm of computing.

This is what annoys me with the adult bootcamp crowd. I feel they're only willing to learn as long as it's easy. If something gets complicated or complex, then they check out. And I a lot of their questions is "tell me how to do this/that". But they don't know why they would do it.

To me it feels like they're trying to fast track themselves to a dev job. Yet you would think if they're trying to do this all professionally, they would be open to learning as much as possible, and not closing themselves off.

My semi-friend who runs the meetup is trying to start a bootcamp himself. So I try I severely hold my tongue when I attend those meetups. And I want to be supportive. I certainly don't want to be the reason why people are turned off by programming. But at the same time, I hate how people are abusing this profession because they think it's fast money and an easy way to earn 6 figure salaries.

Coding Bootcamps are coming to an end. I imagine Lambda School has a few years to live left.

How I feel about bootcamps? I feel like I'll never be able to attend one without moving to another country.

I have never understood why there is so much animosity from seasoned devs in the community.

I see it in a lot of places. Stackoverflow, reddit, even devRant. In so many cases, an inexperienced dev will post to the web, only to be shot down by things like "this question is stupid" or "you all have it too easy and its apparent you never learned basic CS principles" or things of that nature. In a lot of cases, these are generally unhelpful replies and often teach new devs to be wary of seeking help.

Please help me to understand, why this is.

Is it because the community is angry at these devs trying to get a high paying job by going to a bootcamp and shortcutting the hard work it takes to understand core CS principles to become a decent developer? Then why not take a moment to provide resources or insight to these folks so they can learn to be better?

Is it because the community feels that devs from bootcamps are just watering down the pool of talent making our worth decrease? I feel this isnt really valid because seasoned, experienced architects will always be needed to build good software. And at that, why are we not ensuring that the next wave of developers is equipped to handle tasks like that?

There are a lot of good people in this community who want to help and make the net a better place for all developers (after all, many of us consider it home), but there's a lot more people out there with really shitty attitudes, and it frustrates the hell out of me that my juniors now equate arrogant, self-entitled responses and attitudes with "seasoned devs" and discourages them from even bothering to get involved in the community.

full of contradiction.

If u try freelancing nobody would pay you shit coz theres always someone who'd do it for 100$.

If you do get a good budget freelance project, any Dev you'd consider outsourcing to to split the work with will ask for more than the project is worth.

There's a lot of competition but it's basically made up of

- people from fancy universities who dont know shit coz they think their degree is worth something on its own and expect high salaries off the bat.

- people who figured out the first group are idiots and tried to self learn, so they joined bootcamps that spoon fed them some Laravel and React and now think they are high tier engineers but may not even know their way around a bash terminal

- people who actually know their shit, went through hell to get the skills they have now, could probably spin up a startup on their own

group 3 all left the country tho

I think one point that people often forget is that bootcamps are more of a learning accelerator than a one-stop shop, and the few reputable camps around do quite a good job.

Bootcamps get you up and running in coding quickly. If you are a programmer, companies are only interested on how quickly, error free and cheaply you produce marketable output. Bootcamps enable this.

More or less you are not more than a former assembly line worker putting parts on a car platform. Your value is not very high as you may be exchanged at any time at their will.

Nevertheless, you can earn money quickly. You trade in your youth and time which might be a dead end in the long-term. Trends go to machine learning, artificial intelligence. They will not need Bootcamp people and code workers.

It is better you set up Bootcamps and sell them versus absolving this. Like selling shovels during the gold rush, but not working in the mud of Alaska by yourself.

Your choice is: Making quick money, which fades anyway; or striving for the long-term future proof career.

C/S degrees from Technical Universities of reputation give to you the right direction under a strategic consideration. Companies which pay well, or freelancing with a solid acknowledged background, will always look for top graduates. People from Bootcamps are just OK for hammering assembly line coding. Even worse with SCRUM in one noisy room under enormous team server pressure controls, counting your lines of code per minute, with pale people all around. And groups of controllers never acknowledging nor trusting your work.

To acquire a serious degree, a Bachelor is nothing. Here, in INDIA, Bachelor now is what a former high school grade was. You must carry a diploma or Masters degree combined with internships at big companies with high brand recognition. This will require 4–6 years of your lifetime. You can support this financially by working part-time freelancing as making some projects front- or back-end web, data analysis and else.

Bootcamp people will lose in the long-term. They are the modern cannon fudder of software production.

It is your choice. Personally, I would never do Bootcamps. Quality and sustainability require time, deep studies and devotion.

I don't care about market cap. Stick your hype-driven business practices up your ass. Infinite growth doesn't exist. I won't read your fucking books and attend your fucking bootcamps and MBAs. You don't have a business model. Selling data is not a business model. Fuck your quick-flip venture capital schemes, and especially fuck your “ethics”.

I will be the first alt-tech CEO. I only care about revenue. The real money, not capitalization bubble vaporware. You don't need a huge fleet of engineers if you're smart about your technology, know how to do architecture, and you're not a feature creep. You don't need venture capital if you don't need a huge fleet of engineers. You don't need to sell data if you don't need venture capital. See? See the pattern here?

My experience allows me to build products on entirely my own. I am fully aware of the limitations of being alone, and they only inspire lean thinking and great architectural decisions. If you know throwing capacity at a problem is not an option, you start thinking differently. And if you don't need to hire anyone, it is very easy to turn a profit and make it sustainable.

If you don't follow the path of tech vaporware, you won't have the problems of tech vaporware, namely distrust of your user base, shitty updates that break everything, and of course “oops, they raised capital, time to leave before things go south”.

A friend of mine went the path I'm talking about, developed a product over the course of four years all alone, reached $10k MRR and sold for $0.8M. But I won't sell. I only care about revenue. If I get to $10k MRR, I will most likely stop doing new features and focus on fixing all the bugs there are and improving performance. This and security patches. Maybe an occasional facelift. That's it. Some products are valued because they don't change, like Sublime Text. The utility tool you can rely on. This is my scheme, this is what I want to do in life. A best-kept secret.

Imagine 100 million users that hate my product but use it because there are no alternatives, 100 people in data enrichment department alone, a billion dollars of evaluation (without being profitable), 10 million twitter followers, and ten VC firms telling me what to do and what data to sell.

Fuck that. I'd rather have one thousand loyal customers and $10k MRR. I'm different, some call it a mental illness, but the bottom line is, my goals are beyond their understanding. They call me crazy. I won't say it was never about the money, of course it was, but inflating your evaluation is not “money”. But the only thing they have is their terrible hustle culture lives and some VC street wisdom, meanwhile I HAVE products, it is on record on my PH. I have POTDs, I have a fucking Golden Kitty nomination on health and fitness for a product I made in one day. Fuck you.

Got the GitHub student developer pack in 10th grade (highschool)

I recently made an application for GitHub student developer pack which got accepted .
If you don't know what this pack is all about , let me tell you this pack gives you free access to various tools that world-class developers use. The pack currently contains 23 tools ranging from Data Science, Gaming, Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, APIs, Integrated Development Environments, Version Control Systems, Cloud Hosting Platforms, Code tutorials, Bootcamps, integration platforms, payment platforms and lots more.

I thought my application wouldn't qualify because after reading the documentation , I thought that It was oriented more towards college and university students but nonetheless I applied and my application got accepted . Turns out all you need is a school -issued verifiable email address or proof of you current academic status (marksheets etc.)

After few minutes of the application I got the "pro" tag on my GitHub profile although I didn't receive any emails .

I tested it out and claimed the Canva Pro subscription for free after signing up with my GitHub account.

I definitely recommend , if you are currently enrolled in a degree or diploma granting course of study such as a high school, secondary school, college, university, homeschool, or similar educational institution
and have a verifiable school-issued email address or documents that prove your current student status, have a GitHub user account
and are at least 13 years old , PLEASE APPLY FOR THE PROGRAM .

Checkout the GitHub docs for more info..

Thanks !

My GitHub GitHub Username :
satvikDesktop

PS. I would have posted links to some sites and documentations for further reading but I can't post url's in a rant yet :(

If anyone can do a 12-week bootcamp to become a ‘developer’, where are the 12-week bootcamps to become a lawyer or doctor? 🤔

Shut down the bootcamps. The market is over saturated. Most are just showing YouTube videos anyways as a big chunk of the curriculum. They make people think anyone can code, but you really need ambition and an ability to accept failure when your code doesn’t work (not just memorization skills or a can-do attitude). Even though some states do have regulations, they rely on the public to report any illegal activity. That’s why a lot of scams persist. They’re also making the debt crisis worse with ISAs.

Just like there are many programming courses, bootcamps etc. there should also include documentation bootcamps and courses

Dev bootcamps? I went to one! Probably the best decision I ever made.

They aren't perfect, they're pricey, and they won't make you an expert, but it's a good way to expedite a new career, gives a good base knowledge to start out.

I'm torn on dev bootcamps.

On one hand, I learn the most in hands-on direct tinkering and bootcamps tend to exude this with well-trained instructors following best practices.

On the other hand, the short timeline means corners are cut and an overwhelming amount of material is dropped all at once leading to a leaky retention vessel at the end.

I prefer ramping up learning over a period of time to gain experience than a fire hose approach.

Tired of seeing people showing off their bootcamp certification on LinkedIn as if they had just climbed Mount Everest, and as if they were about to enter the most glamorous field of work one could imagine.
OK I went through a bootcamp myself but I certainly knew I was still a baby upon completion of the journey and still consider I have a veeery long way to go today after two years of dev work experience. Also I knew working as a developer probably wouldn’t be as awesome as these bootcamps make it out to be. In fact it’s everything but glamorous when you take into account the stress, the dynamics with coworkers, POs, PMs, shitty management, wacky clients, weird demands, deadlines etc.
Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy being a developer and have more or less been able handle the workload and expectations. But for goodness sake stop drilling into bootcampers’ heads that it’s gonna be amazing and that they’re doing incredible things. Congratulate them for their hard work and then wish them good luck because they’re going to need it. Bootcampers, stay humble. Be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best

I personally hate coding bootcamps or their equivalent. They tend to produce poor developers who I have to clean up after or hold the hand of. Business people love them because they are cheap.

The only bootcamps I have seen are the ones in companies that hire virtually everybody and think they can all train them on their own. Most of these companies do not exist anymore. So: I don't like bootcamps. The name alone is misleading and makes me wanna ....

I think it really depends on the person attending (why they want to be a developer, how they learn, their ability to apply what they learn etc) I think these bootcamps serve a good purpose by making helping people achieve their goals. I will say that pop culture has set some pretty unrealistic standards for what it is like being a developer, and a lot of the bootcamps are propagating that misconception

Because of a previous post today I looked up the cost for these bootcamps. Is really someone out there paying 15.000$ for something you could learn for free ? Why do people do this ?

Do bootcamps include online sites like Coursera and Treehouse? Cause when I graduated from a CS degree I still couldn't code properly. I learnt from sites like these and got my first job. But the thing is what they teach you isn't even the tip of the iceberg let alone helping you master the technology. For that you gotta go out on your own.

How do you guys feel about bootcamps? I feel like they are flooding the market now

There isn't many Dev bootcamps where i am from but i think they are a great idea for anyone that codes as you can get new ideas and learn new skills no matter what your ability

Well, after almost a year of doing self study and what not... I decided to enroll in a bootcamp. Partially to help keep me accountable, mostly to help with networking and making contacts in the industry around me. I'm really stoked for it in spite of skepticism. They do offer guaranteed job placement if you finish the course, which was a major selling point for me. I'm curious if anyone on here has attended one? Thoughts? Success stories? Horror stories? From the research I've done, seems like you get what you put into it.

I knew programming was for me, MUCH later in life.

I loved playing with computers growing up but it wasn't until college that I tried programming ... and failed...

At the college I was at the first class you took was a class about C. It was taught by someone who 'just gets it', read from a old dusty book about C, that assumes you already know C... programming concepts and a ton more. It was horrible. He read from the book, then gave you your assignment and off you went.

This was before the age when the internet had a lot of good data available on programming. And it didn't help that I was a terrible student. I wasn't mature enough, I had no attention span.

So I decide programming is not for me and i drop out of school and through some lucky events I went on to make a good career in the tech world in networking. Good income and working with good people and all that.

Then after age 40... I'm at a company who is acquired (approved by the Trump administration ... who said there would be lots of great jobs) and they laid most people off.

I wasn't too sad about the layoffs that we knew were comming, it was a good career but I was tiring on the network / tech support world. If you think tech debt is bad, try working in networking land where every protocols shortcomings are 40+ years in the making and they can't be fixed ... without another layer of 20 year old bad ideas... and there's just no way out.

It was also an area where at most companies even where those staff are valued, eventually they decide you're just 'maintenance'.

I had worked really closely with the developers at this company, and I found they got along with me, and I got along with them to the point that they asked some issues be assigned to me. I could spot patterns in bugs and provide engineering data they wanted (accurate / logical troubleshooting, clear documentation, no guessing, tell them "i don't know" when I really don't ... surprising how few people do that).

We had such a good relationship that the directors in my department couldn't get a hold of engineering resources when they wanted ... but engineering would always answer my "Bro, you're going to want to be ready for this one, here's the details..." calls.

I hadn't seen their code ever (it was closely guarded) ... but I felt like I 'knew' it.

But no matter how valuable I was to the engineering teams I was in support... not engineering and thus I was expendable / our department was seen / treated as a cost center.

So as layoff time drew near I knew I liked working with the engineering team and I wondered what to do and I thought maybe I'd take a shot at programming while I had time at work. I read a bunch on the internet and played with some JavaScript as it was super accessible and ... found a whole community that was a hell of a lot more helpful than in my college years and all sorts of info on the internet.

So I do a bunch of stuff online and I'm enjoying it, but I also want a classroom experience to get questions answered and etc.

Unfortunately, as far as in person options are it felt like me it was:

- Go back to college for years ---- un no I've got fam and kids.

- Bootcamps, who have pretty mixed (i'm being nice) reputations.

So layoff time comes, I was really fortunate to get a good severance so I've got time ... but not go back to college time.

So I sign up for the canned bootcamp at my local university.

I could go on for ages about how everyone who hates boot camps is wrong ... and right about them. But I'll skip that for now and say that ... I actually had a great time.

I (and the handful of capable folks in the class) found that while we weren't great students in the past ... we were suddenly super excited about going to class every day and having someone drop knowledge on us each day was ultra motivating.

After that I picked up my first job and it has been fun since then. I like fixing stuff, I like making it 'better' and easier to use (for me, coworkers, and the customer) and it's fun learning / trying new things all the time.

Started by viewing the source of basic sites to learn html. Told the IT director of the company I was working at that I wanted to get into programming and he handed me a ColdFusion programming book. By the 4th chapter I was full time in the IT department and subsequently the last one to leave when the doors shut on that business.

That was almost 18 years ago long before YouTube and Treehouse and all these coding bootcamps.

Best path depends on where you are in life and what you can afford.

Used to be the case that formal college/uni for K-12 graduates was a great path, provided you had the tenacity to stick with the program.

I had almost dropped out of my bachelor of programming systems 4year programme because it was too strict for my lazy ass, but it was totally on me to not be giving it my best.

Now, fast forward to today's age we have a lot of accelerated paths a person can take to get the foot in - bootcamps are successful option for many, but you need to immerse yourself and give it your all to start getting a feel for software dev mindset.

Self-teaching is and was a viable option, but you run a risk of embeddding a lot of potential mistakes to your thinking/process which can make it hard to work in real scenarios with other people.

In short, college and bootcamps are still king, I think

Garbage; learn with research and a good project or something.
..although so far, the bootcamps I've attended have been under a big corp and labelled as "training"..

My best friend (a consultant in salesforce) told me that he feels that software development is becoming like a blue collar casual job that anyone who has enough IQ can just pickup and start working. Have in mind that, he doesn't even have coding basics so I take his opinion with a grain of salt (since his work is just knowing the salesforce framework and teaching his clients what button to click where. He spends 80% of his day in business calls or meetings).

Personally I think that anyone can learn coding basics, but only certain people can stay in this field because you need to constantly grow, change, learn new things, have a huge treshold for failure and also somehow motivate yourself. Only 20% of my unversity peers are actually coding nowadays. Also only around 2-3 people out of 10 people in coding bootcamps actually become devs. So for me dev job is clearly not a casual job.

What are your thoughts on this?

Is looking up the answers a good way to learn?

I started with free code camp a while back and always just looked up the answers and reverse engineered them when running into trouble. If I didn’t get it I’d look up a few videos on the idea.

But recently I started at a boot camp and after I asked they greatly discouraged me from doing this but I don’t see an alternative. I could just spent hours trying to guess the right answer and maybe eventually get the right one, but then my head is full of wrong answers and it takes forever. It feels like reinventing the wheel every time. I’m scared when I get further on in the bootcamp I won’t be able to find the answers online and I’ll be directionless.

Is this just imposter syndrome or am I cheating? Everyone I’ve asked said looking up what to do is part of the job.

Bootcamps? They make sense, but only for highly specialized topics for which there's barely a good tutorial. Otherwise I'll just stick to Google "mytopic tutorial"

Did you go to a coding boot camp? Which one? Was it a success? In what ways specifically? Can we see your portfolio? Are you happy?

Thoughts on coding bootcamps...?

Are their any code bootcamp sorta deals that are actually worth the time and money? I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on them

Why is there even a clz when I learn most of the thing required for the job from online or bootcamps

What's one the best free courses on Flutter Development? Really looking forward to learning it but can't afford bootcamps😐