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Search - "bootcamp"
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Till now I have just heard of these people but always taught those are just marketing or some person who think that just because they here HTML with some other programming language. BUT THIS IS SOME NEXT LEVEL SHIT.82
I recently joined the dark side - an agile consulting company (why and how is a long story). The first client I was assigned to was an international bank. The client wanted a web portal, that was at its core, just a massive web form for their users to perform data entry.
My company pitched and won the project even though they didn't have a single developer on their bench. The entire project team (including myself) was fast tracked through interviews and hired very rapidly so that they could staff the project (a fact I found out months later).
Although I had ~8 years of systems programming experience, my entire web development experience amounted to 12 weeks (a part time web dev course) just before I got hired.
I introduce to you, my team ...
Scrum Master. 12 years experience on paper.
Rote memorised the agile manifesto and scrum textbooks. He constantly went “We should do X instead of (practical thing) Y, because X is the agile way.” Easily pressured by the client to include ridiculous (real time chat in a form filling webpage), and sometimes near impossible features (undo at the keystroke level). He would just nag at the devs until someone mumbled ‘yes' just so that he would stfu and go away.
UX Designer. 3 years experience on paper ... as business analyst.
Zero professional experience in UX. Can’t use design tools like AI / photoshop. All he has is 10 weeks of UX bootcamp and a massive chip on his shoulder. The client wanted a web form, he designed a monstrosity that included several custom components that just HAD to be put in, because UX. When we asked for clarification the reply was a usually condescending “you guys don’t understand UX, just do <insert unhandled edge case>, this is intended."
Developer - PHD in his first job.
Invents programming puzzles to solve where there are none. The user story asked for a upload file button. He implemented a queue system that made use of custom metadata to detect file extensions, file size, and other attributes, so that he could determine which file to synchronously upload first.
Developer - Bootlicker. 5 years experience on paper.
He tried to ingratiate himself with the management from day 1. He also writes code I would fire interns and fail students for. His very first PR corrupted the database. The most recent one didn’t even compile.
Developer - Millennial fratboy with a business degree. 8 years experience on paper.
His entire knowledge of programming amounted to a single data structures class he took on Coursera. Claims that’s all he needs. His PRs was a single 4000+ line files, of which 3500+ failed the linter, had numerous bugs / console warnings / compile warnings, and implemented 60% of functionality requested in the user story. Also forget about getting his attention whenever one of the pretty secretaries walked by. He would leap out of his seat and waltz off to flirt.
Developer - Brooding loner. 6 years experience on paper.
His code works. It runs, in exponential time. Simply ignores you when you attempt to ask.
Developer - Agile fullstack developer extraordinaire. 8 years experience on paper.
Insists on doing the absolute minimum required in the user story, because more would be a waste. Does not believe in thinking ahead for edge conditions because it isn’t in the story. Every single PR is a hack around existing code. Sometimes he hacks a hack that was initially hacked by him. No one understands the components he maintains.
Developer - Team lead. 10 years of programming experience on paper.
Writes spaghetti code with if/else blocks nested 6 levels deep. When asked "how does this work ?”, the answer “I don’t know the details, but hey it works!”. Assigned as the team lead as he had the most experience on paper. Tries organise technical discussions during which he speaks absolute gibberish that either make no sense, or are complete misunderstandings of how our system actually works.
The last 2 guys are actually highly regarded by my company and are several pay grades above me. The rest were hired because my company was desperate to staff the project.
There are a 3 more guys I didn’t mention. The 4 of us literally carried the project. The codebase is ugly as hell because the others merge in each others crap. We have no unit tests, and It’s near impossible to start because of the quality of the code. But this junk works, and was deployed to production. Today is it actually hailed as a success story.
All these 3 guys have quit. 2 of them quit without a job. 1 found a new and better gig.
I’m still here because I need the money. There’s a tsunami of trash code waiting to fail in production, and I’m the only one left holding the fort.
Why am I surrounded by morons?
Why are these retards paid more than me?
Why are they so proud when all they produce is trash?
How on earth are they still hired?
And yeah, FML.8
I'm freaking the fuck out.
After months of learning from bootcamp and on my own, after a month of no resumes replied to, after almost giving up I finally got a job opportunity in front-end web development.
And I feel like garbage who can't understand even the most basic algorithms.
By the power of Grayskull, I don't think I have the power...
Wish me luck.16
Shortest friendship story-
I randomly posted on a group- "Hey can someone lend me Udemy Account if you have bought The Web Developer Bootcamp by Colt Steele, I am a student and really wish to do the course"
Next minute, I got a pm- "Give me your e-mail id pal, I will gift you the course"
This man in his 50s was so generous. We talked about tech, country and exchanged social handles.
By the way the course is really worth it.10
Installing MacOS on Virtualbox running on Windows 10 which is running on MBP Bootcamp partition.
TLDR: Skills and background or dedication for becoming a good programmer?
So I almost finished the bootcamp on my company, there is only 2 people. Me and another guy who is from math major. He wanted to learn programming so he applied for the job. He doen’t know sql, any backend language, and not even html or css when he joined. The only thing he knew is for looping and if condition logic. He survived 1 months or so by learning a lot here. C#, .net mvc, sql, decent css and html. I believe he worked hard by learning it by himself. But the company he can’t continue anymore. I doesn’t know the reason but probably because he is seen as not good enough. Sure he is kinda slow when adding some feature to our small project but we need to find how to do it by ourself mostly. Now I’m alone with another few weeks to continue4
I've been an IT Director for a medium sized company for 11 years...
2 years ago we decided to custom develop an app for online ordering through a third party... This company quoted $36k, I told the team that I think it will be $100k and here is a solution that will do 90% of the needs for $50 a month per location... boss says he doesn't care if it's 200k he wants 100% of what we want and the ability to change it to perfectly fit our needs.... FFW to present... $36k app built by committee of 8 people.. = $400k... and counting for maintenance and adjustments. We now use that $50 a month solution as well to cover another need that would be too costly to code into the original app SMH... and now myself and my team are learning to code to support it internally because.... why would you just hire a qualified person... anyhow, I'm a few months into a self paced online bootcamp and loving it. So ... bright side found! Rant over2
An un-rant on Universities. (UC Irvine)
A lot of my friends and I are about to graduate 👨🎓 from UCI, with Computer Science degrees.
Most of them are complaining that they don't know any current frameworks, and all that we learned is outdated.
And that pretty much any bootcamper knows more tools that any of us do.
I totally disagree. I don't think it's the university's job to teach you tools (node, tencerflow, ...), rather, I think they made us into programming Swiss Army knifes. I can pick up any framework (I wanna be a web dev) real easy, and when shit breaks down, I can easily figure out the issue.
I think that's the major difference between Computer Scientists and Bootcampers/Programmers. We know "why", while they know "how".
What do you think? Is the current price of a CS degree worth it?22
So I've been applying to jobs. I, purposely, have been putting down that I am female (since they all harp on diversity, I'd like to see if they even bother reaching out to me. Also anything to get my resume past the bots).
Spoiler alert - getting similar ratios to male counterparts, 100+ applications sent, maybe 4 phone interviews. No offers yet. Still made to do code challenges.
Well, I just found out where all that diversity hiring went to. Buddy of mine who works at a mid tier company said that they have a special program that onboards women into tech.
Specifically, women who have literally zero background in computers.
Teachers, social workers, etc. They get a week or so of some coding bootcamp and then get full time positions over more skilled applicants.
This infuriates me. I literally would be in a better situation to be hired had I not have had any technical background, taken this particular bootcamp and finally net the elusive entry level position I need.
And guess what? That move has antagonized the existing male employees who see that they have zero interest and zero competency instead of having an integrated workplace.
10/10 for incredible bullshit.9
We are interviewing for a junior engineer, and I was tasked with writing the coding exercise for a candidate that came from a coding bootcamp.
Most of the exercises are React-focused, but I opted to go vanilla: Here's an HTML document with an unstyled form. Style it to your taste, and write validation logic according to these rules. Simple, low enough barrier for juniors to complete, but with enough wiggle room to let candidates show senior-level thinking.
I did the exercise myself and timed my work. 7m 22s. So, ok, juniors should have plenty of time for it (They get 1 hour).
Candidate comes in. Can't finish it. Did not know how to use `getElementById`. Assumed jQuery was loaded in the page and couldn't figure out why the $ function didn't work. Global variables containing dashes, without understanding that dashes could not appear in a variable name. 10 minutes of Googling how to see if a radio button is checked. Conditionals comparing strings possibly containing a dollar amount to hard-coded numerical literals.
To be fair, the candidate did show good empathy when viewing the page as an end user and thinking of possible improvements. Good curiosity, listening skills, etc. There was also decent reasoning skills in React terms. But without a library or framework to shape their thoughts, the candidate was unable to produce a functional web form.
I shared that the candidate has potential but the training cost would be high given the lack of technical knowledge that would aid troubleshooting even if they never left their comfort zone. I ultimately advised to reject the candidate.
Manager says he would not discount the candidate for the coding problems because if they can "build an application without understanding the underlying concepts", that was enough.
I want to be supportive. I do. But I also kind of want to retire.9
On reccomendation of @chabad360 I made this its own rant.
I switched from marketing to CS (complete with a three year degree, no Bootcamp). I still went to interviews as you'd expect a marketing man to go; in a suit. Commence the weirdest interview.
I: "You're not the typical engineer. Can you talk to real engineers?"
M: "could you elaborate"
I:"you're dressed in a suit. That leads me to think you're a MS user. Do you think you could talk to real, ie. Linux using engineers?"
M: " well, I haven't used windows in about a year soo..
I: "Mac isn't Linux."
M: "I'm aware. I've switched to Ubuntu so I could use KVM-QEMU android emulator with GPU pass through to train Deep Convolution Networks on mobile devices. Also had to compile Google's internal build tool because it had bugs I had to fix so I could compile the APK."
I: "ah, Ubuntu eh? **Insert Smirk** How about a follow-up?"
M: "no, I'm switching to Gentoo this week and would like to talk to real engineers about that."
I thanked him for the coffee and left.2
Me: Man this has been a killer week! Coding bootcamp has been better than I ever could have dreamed. Home life is good. Nothing could kill my good mood.
*opens up Facebook*
*Sees Microsoft is trying to pay billions of dollars to take control of Github*
*Starts cloning repos like crazy*14
I’m waiting visual studio 2015 for 3 hours and another one for this program devexpress because we need to learn it at my bootcamp
2017 doesn’t even took 30 min to finish up5
Never EVER buy a Mac as your primary PC if you're a developer.
Back in 2014 I bought an iMac because I already had an iPhone, and being able to code on xCode and also have a Windows partition seemed perfect. It wasn't.
Soon enough, I started encountering issues. My storage was randomly filling up, my computer started getting slow despite me having a small number of start apps and still a lot of storage available, it was all a mess.
So - I installed Windows 10 using Bootcamp to use it as my main OS. All was great until I wanted a new partition of Windows so I can test some things out without damaging my stuff. I try multiple methods, none of which work because my disk is not in the right partition format, and I don't want to change it because I'd have to format the whole thing.
Whatever - I give up, and try going back to my normal partition, disappointed. Guess fucking what?! My Windows Boot was damaged! Yes, I shit you not!
So - not only was this absolute piece of shit not able to add just one more fucking partition with an OS on it, but it BROKE my main partition, and now I'm trying to recover it.
I've said it once and I'll say it again: Never EVER get a Mac as your primary computer, unless you only work on Mac/iPhone apps.
For paying 1300$, I was expecting a seamless experience with little to no issues - yet all I got is a computer that's fucking broken from it's very core.
Fuck you, Apple.13
It astounds me that people will actually pay thousands of dollars to come to a bootcamp and just fuck around...
Like we will spend an hour going over materials and concept and when it comes time to apply it and build something the kid next to me never knows what's going on! And then always asks me how to do it.
I tried being positive about it and be like hey if I can explain it to him...then that means I really know it!
Fast forward a couple weeks and I'm ready to strangle the kid.
He will sit on his phone playing games the whole time the lesson is going. Then when the lesson is over, put his phone down and immediately ask me how to do it...
The fuck!? Maybe if you'd just listen you'd know wtf you're doing by now you useless vapid brainless twatwaffle!4
I'm a junior ASP.NET programmer who just graduated and currently undergoing a trainee program bootcamp by my company. Got any Visual Studio tips or extensions I should use? (I know some of you hate vs but still)15
Before learning the css grid, I fell asleep so fast everytime at night. After the bootcamp
This is the 3rd day and I still can’t sleep on time, my brain keeps on banging my eyes to wake up and try all of the websites that have been piled up on my brainbfor 3 years
P.S. I start learning grid after using bootstrap layout the first time. Not gonna touch it again. It breaks my brain kinda bad1
So I have attended AWS tech bootcamp yesterday and today.
One thing I notice is everyone either have Mac laptop or other laptops with Win10.
I'm probably the only one with Linux distro. 🤔
I feel special and at the same time, lonely.7
A 12-week coding Bootcamp won't turn you into a full stack web developer.
It's like a diet it takes time, it's not over in a few weeks even if you start intensive and really commit to it.5
What's with all this micro-certification nonsense that seems to plague the industry? Does anyone actually give a shit that I may have passed some vendor's five day bootcamp?
Apparently I can now have a trophy (virtual, of course) if I complete X online MS courses.
Some of these courses seem to focus on stuff that has no use in day-to-day work.
And I have to actually pay because I learned your product and then pay to maintain the cert in some cases. WTF?!
I can see why the vendors do it---I like free money too---but why have we even let this become a thing.
It's like collecting baseball cards.
I despair of what our industry has become...I really do.14
I’m currently learning development thru a remote bootcamp, I spend 80% of free time trying to build stuff and doing challenges. None of my friends understand or care, how do you combat loneliness/make friends when you’re a beginner? I’ve been to a few meetups but everyone’s way ahead of me. Bootcamp classmates are cool but none are in my city.9
I'm from New Zealand, and was working in the business side of things but really wanted to learn more tech. Saw a course in the states I really wanted to do, spoke to the admissions person and they said I can initially do a 4 week course then a 8 week bootcamp. Decided I would go but turns out I needed more "experience" when I spoke to one of the instructors.
Was super disappointed I had travelled all the way to America only to be denied a place, but the same instructor said if I did all the tasks she gave me I could get in. 2 years later I'm a full time dev and will never go back.
Really appreciate my instructors belief in me to go the next step, my life would be so different (and empty) if it weren't for her!3
> Have nothing to do with programming
> Starts shitty coding bootcamp online, possibly for free
> Learns html/css/js course
> Builds to-do app (dont know how to deploy it with anything but github pages, but who cares)
> Takes a week to finish course
> Gets e-certificate and posts it on LinkedIn
> Adds web and front end dev as Professional Skill on LinkedIn
> Complains how bad the tech industry is for 'new entries and beginners'2
I've really struggled to make friends with people who code... and it's been absolutely frustrating. Does everyone in this industry have a god complex or something? Everyone I try to make friends with ends up being super narcissistic and self obsessed it's crazy. One of them wanted to be my mentor a while back, and we still talk occasionally, but after getting to know him I decided I didn't want to learn from him. It turns out he only mentors people to showboat his greatness and claim later that all their success is directly his doing. I decided I wasn't going to be one of those people and I only ever had 2 sessions from him. One of the best choices I've ever made. But I've found a lot of people who are programmers tend to be a lot like him. A lot of them I talk to will hit me up to brag about themselves or what they've done. But none ever ask what's been up with me or how my journey is doing? Is this just a normal thing in this industry or am I just meeting terrible people. It's made me appreciate my slightly dumber friends, cause at least they care about me and it shows.
More a rant than anything, but genuinely curious if anyone else has this issue... I'm starting my bootcamp soon and I'm hoping to make friends but I'm so concerned about this it's kind of giving me anxiety.14
So I'm coming out of one that has a focus on this stack (JS [JQuery after weeks of Vanilla JS drilling in our heads, React], Java, MySQL, Python [Django, Bottle], HTML/CSS, and a few web security concepts (XSS, SQL injections).
The whole course has been 4 months learning, 3 weeks working on a final project. Next week is the presentation, so I think I can safely comment on the course.
We moved fast, but that's to be expected. Lecture in the mornings, exercises in the afternoons, assignments due at the beginning of each week. Constantly working towards it and improving. I have been working pretty hard. We were given some help, but had to get a lot of answers online (based God StackOverflow), but that's part of it.
We touched on some concepts like inheritance in JS, Python and Java, OOP and to be open to concepts we don't know so we should be thirsty for that knowledge.
In my off time, I've begun texting myself Node and really trying to double down on React because it seems useful. I realized I was more drawn to the backend, but I was comfortable in front end as well. (Just don't ask me to design anything, my eye for aesthetics/CSS sorcery is terrible.)
The overall experience has been pretty mixed, but we were mostly unsatisfied. We weren't given then help we were promised. The explanations weren't exactly crystal clear, so we would have to teach ourselves and each other quite a bit. We worked together a lot. Some people really fell behind, some caught up, some flew ahead and thrived. (I'm somewhere between caught up and thrived, I recognize where I stand.)
I'm happy I did a bootcamp, they aren't miracle programs, but they at least kick you into place that you are learning and need to continue to learn. (Just kinda wish I had done a different one.)
Feel free to ask about anything concerning it!
Best part of working in Company:
Getting learning sessions from Seniors and sharing design aspects and their pros and cons.
Had an awesome session on how to focus on making a code testable.
With hands on coding too.
Never expected to have such a great experience.
I worked with guy who was a teacher at bootcamp for 2 years already. He was fired after 2 months of juniorship at software house, because he couldn't do anything properly. I think it tells everything.
I just finished an IT bootcamp focusong on JS and React. I feel like i dont have enough skills and knowledge to land a junior role. Any advice?
- a nurse looking for a career change13
I love how CS universities teach stuff like every student there is going to create a programming language from scratch, but none of the real world stuff. Then people get surprised that bootcamp students get promotions twice as fast.14
Imagine being the kind of officious prick who turns up to a bootcamp graduation evening and goes to each table in turn, condescending the graduate projects and telling them everything that they did wrong?
Imagine proceeding to try and 'break' one of the demonstration projects by 'injecting SQL into the url bar', and smashing the keyboard so fucking hard that the table collapses, beer spills over both demo laptops, and destroys them totally.
Ask me in a few months after my bootcamp! I hope to have my first dev job! Scary and exciting at the same time 😳3
Best: Got my first dev job a month before I graduated my bootcamp. Was hired till rona layoffs started happening. Found another dev job 4 months later, and just received a promotion from said job just before going on holiday leave.
Worst: Being laid off for those 4 months. Sure unemployment + stimulus got me through financially, but mentally and emotionally I was starting to crack. I had thought I broke through the barrier with that first job and was going to be set. That layoff threw a wrench in my whole plan. In those 4 months unemployed I developed some imposter syndrome. Regardless, I plugged along with my side projects. One company was really impressed with one of them and was using a similar stack for an upcoming project, so luckily they ended up hiring me. Confidence restored.2
I have never understood why there is so much animosity from seasoned devs in the community.
I see it in a lot of places. Stackoverflow, reddit, even devRant. In so many cases, an inexperienced dev will post to the web, only to be shot down by things like "this question is stupid" or "you all have it too easy and its apparent you never learned basic CS principles" or things of that nature. In a lot of cases, these are generally unhelpful replies and often teach new devs to be wary of seeking help.
Please help me to understand, why this is.
Is it because the community is angry at these devs trying to get a high paying job by going to a bootcamp and shortcutting the hard work it takes to understand core CS principles to become a decent developer? Then why not take a moment to provide resources or insight to these folks so they can learn to be better?
Is it because the community feels that devs from bootcamps are just watering down the pool of talent making our worth decrease? I feel this isnt really valid because seasoned, experienced architects will always be needed to build good software. And at that, why are we not ensuring that the next wave of developers is equipped to handle tasks like that?
There are a lot of good people in this community who want to help and make the net a better place for all developers (after all, many of us consider it home), but there's a lot more people out there with really shitty attitudes, and it frustrates the hell out of me that my juniors now equate arrogant, self-entitled responses and attitudes with "seasoned devs" and discourages them from even bothering to get involved in the community.23
I'm not going to lie, the surge of bootcamps really irks me. Not because I'm afraid of competition, or that I'm an elitest. Mainly because a lot of people who attend these bootcamps have no real interest in software engineering. I sometimes attend a meetup, and it's a beginner meetup. I try to help out. And a lot of people clearly have no patience for learning software engineering. I try to be encouraging, but sometimes I just want to be dick and tell them "Why the hell do you want to be a dev, if you're not interested in how computers work".
I'm an 100% myself taught developer. Granted I'm 38 and taught myself programming at 14. But it came out of an earnest desire and love for technology in general. So I never shyed away from learning? C and assembler? Bring it on. Theoretical computer science? I can get with that. For me I loved computer so much, that I was willing to learn about anything in the realm of computing.
This is what annoys me with the adult bootcamp crowd. I feel they're only willing to learn as long as it's easy. If something gets complicated or complex, then they check out. And I a lot of their questions is "tell me how to do this/that". But they don't know why they would do it.
To me it feels like they're trying to fast track themselves to a dev job. Yet you would think if they're trying to do this all professionally, they would be open to learning as much as possible, and not closing themselves off.
My semi-friend who runs the meetup is trying to start a bootcamp himself. So I try I severely hold my tongue when I attend those meetups. And I want to be supportive. I certainly don't want to be the reason why people are turned off by programming. But at the same time, I hate how people are abusing this profession because they think it's fast money and an easy way to earn 6 figure salaries.5
I have an idea on how to structure it but I worry it'll be too weird for most people to follow (starting from binary theory and then teaching machine code and then working upwards to C and beyond) explaining how a computer works along the way, showing the real errors with annotations explaining things, etc.
I've always wanted to teach in this format but I feel as though it's too.. idk, "useless" to most people? But I've never had a friend go through e.g. CodeAcademy and come out knowing how to actually make applications from start to finish without just hacking together random React components and hoping the frankenstein project works well enough.
The target demographic would be those either completely new to programming or just have a fundamental or web-centric preexisting knowledge, or maybe those who simply want to understand computers better.
Am I barking up a shitty tree?28
I took two years of CS then switched degrees. I've been working in technology since 2007 with those two years, a bunch of O'Reilly books, and some awesome mentors. I guess that is a dev bootcamp. We didn't have those in my day.
While I do have a degree, I don't recommend people to get one unless you are legally bound to get one; barber, hairdresser, doctor, lawyer.7
I'm loving the bootcamp I'm in so far. I know I won't be a whiz kid once I'm done, but it gives me a great start for my career change! You'll only be as successful as the work you put into coding. Practice makes better as time goes on!2
I'm not a dev, but I want to be. There's a lot of ways to become a developer from what I can tell, but the one I chose was a coding bootcamp.
I was accepted to Thinkful with an Income Share Agreement and a Living Stipend.
I'll be in the full time Engineering Immersion cohort starting this upcoming February.
So I just wanted to share my small accomplishment. Wish me luck, fam.1
Apple, next time you want to get me to upgrade my file system, please FUCKING TELL ME IT WONT LET ME INSTALL WINDOWS USING BOOTCAMP, 9 hours and I’ve only just found the file system that will let me run Adobe Cloud and Windows
It has been a while since my last tale. I think it was about me starting a bootcamp...
Well, a lot of things happen since that:
• I did the bootcamp: three months of code-sleep-code, but now I know a bunch of new stuff.
• I gained my passion/love for develop again.
• Made new friends.
• IDK how became the CTO of a startup (which failed, shame, but I did learn a lot of new stuff again. Plus it wont failed because of the tech side (damn business not doing his business part...)) for about 6 months.
• And next week I will start at a new job (yaaay, income again!): they give me a nice 2k laptop, work from home if I want, nice salary...
So, I think I am ok.
PD: Sry if something I write is wrong, english is not my native language.
Reinstalled my Mac using recovery mode.
Enabled FileVault through the setup.
Now I can't log in to my Mac :/
Screamed like hell :|
Scratched my head for three hours.
Realized that the genius who invented FileVault imagined that no one would ever use bootcamp assistant and FileVault in the same time, cuz when you're encrypting the disk you won't be able to partition it.
I just got one question...
Why the fuu$@("/)@" didn't Apple mentioned that anywhere😐
Was it that much obvious?! :/4
I think I need to go to a bootcamp, so I can go through everything I need to learn: how to pair program, how to explain your code to someone else, how to prepare for a technical interview, etc.11
So I'm a junior in University for Computer Science and software engineering and while I'm a decent coder, I've noticed that I'm not as interested in the Coding aspect of it as others. I don't really think about doing projects of my own and tend to just focus on the schoolwork. I feel like I recognize patterns rather than fully understanding what's going on. I did extremely well in the Coding bootcamp I went to, better than most. But I'm worried that I'm not as into being an engineer as I think I should be. I love working with computers and the process of making something, but I'm always second guessing being an engineer.
Am I just worrying too much? Imposter syndrome?6
When it's the first day of a QA Automation bootcamp and the other students think you should be the teacher.. =_=3
Hi guys some advice would be appreciated.
I’m new here but have followed for a long time. I enjoy coding in my spare time, particularly web development but I am looking to make it my career.
Currently I work in mental health as a social worker, but ultimately the stress of the job and life in general has led to me being detained in a psychiatric hospital. So I’ve decided I need change.
I want to start a career I want to be in and that is as a developer. In terms of education, I started a degree in maths/cs a long time ago but stopped due to life events at the time. All the rest of my qualifications are around social work.
Are there any self made developers out there who have any advice for me? I’m looking at doing a bootcamp but dunno if that will help at all.
Any help or advice would be really welcome. Cheers guys :)23
Yesterday, I received an email from the boot-camp that my contract was terminated because of HARASSMENT. They kicked me out from Slack and Github. They're treating me like a sh*t! I haven't done anything bad against them. In fact, they treated me poorly and unjustly. They didn't have an explanation about the HARASSMENT that I've done. Where is the justice about this?25
about six months ago i posted that i was accepted into and starting at a coding bootcamp. next week is the last week of curriculum for me before i can choose to be a teachers assistant or finish my capstone project and graduate!
some basic info about the course i took:
- 6 months (3 months web dev 2 months CS 1 month capstone project )
- starts by learning the MERN stack
- includes noSQL and SQL dbs
- transitions into C and then python for computer science
- includes basic security info
- lots and lots of algorithm practice
- lots of job readiness stuff (resume writing, linkedin, etc, but i havent done that yet)
- lots of portfolio-able projects throughout the schooling experience
- previous cohorts have something like 40% (after 1month) and 70% (after two) job placement rates (rough estimate)
let me know if anyone is curious about anything related and id be happy to answer what questions i can! :)6
What's up with recent Bootcamp grads putting themselves as "full stack engineer"s or "software engineer"s on LinkedIn when they haven't even had their first job yet? They build two projects and they think they are already engineers with zero relative job experience?
I don't get it.19
In the last module of my bootcamp(make all the jokes you want about bootcamp I have thick skin and a degree 😬) and just started applying for jobs. First job I applied for was a big company asking for 5+ years experience.
Might as well get used to rejection early 😂3
Its good and practical but those who aim to fill gaps in the programming industry by trying to produce "programmers on demand" via a several month long bootcamp are complete idiots. Nobody can learn to develop a well structured application that's easy to maintain in a couple of months, either that is frontend or back end. We are trying to be engineers , not just solve problems.
So I keep receiving emails from these dumbass positivity addicted folks who I believe work for the ministry of social development or some shit. I got my first job (an internship) from them through my school during senior year, they had me work "tech support" at elementary schools, where the government had recently given away shitty laptops for the kids.
Well that job sucked, I couldn't actually help the brats fix their machines because we weren't allowed (or given tools) to fuck with the hardware so nine out of ten times all they had me do is fill out forms and send those broken piles of garbage straight to the manufacturer. How thrilling. I got paid a laughable sum after about six months and spent the whole fucking check on tickets to see Robert Plant. No regrets.
Now either I left a good impression or they were extremely short on personel because they offered me an actual job the following year, but the experience left such a bad taste in my mouth I never sent a response. But they've just kept emailing me about "opportunities for skilled young labourers" and dubious shit like that, and honestly since I'm both unemployed and curious I just felt the need to fill out their stupid google form and sign up for what I'm fairly certain is the dumbest fucking bootcamp in the history of bullshit guidance groups.
Do I do this because I'm desperate or bored? I think it's a little bit of both. I don't expect anything but let's see what comes out of this, I really, really need some fucking money and no one's hiring dumbass selftaught retro-graphics wankers like me right now. I might at least get a few laughs out of it.2
I got accepted into the University of Washington BS Computer Science & Software Engineering program today! It's been a long road since starting ITT Tech 3 years agofor a BAS in SDEV, it closing on me, starting all the way over at community college, maintaining a 4.0, and now a bootcamper at Coding Dojo. Now only at least 2 more years to go! 😁🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃😩1
Bootcamp fked up during partition and macos disk utility disk utility simply sucks.
Now i have unaccessible 44gb space on this system. Also TIL, online help related to issues on Mac is terrible. Lol even stackexchange has no replies.
Apparently it seems i have to reinstall whole OS to recover it..
Or is there any other way?..8
I graduated from a bootcamp this February, moved to London and I was certain someone will hire me in the first two weeks. I have never been this wrong4
Bootcamps get you up and running in coding quickly. If you are a programmer, companies are only interested on how quickly, error free and cheaply you produce marketable output. Bootcamps enable this.
More or less you are not more than a former assembly line worker putting parts on a car platform. Your value is not very high as you may be exchanged at any time at their will.
Nevertheless, you can earn money quickly. You trade in your youth and time which might be a dead end in the long-term. Trends go to machine learning, artificial intelligence. They will not need Bootcamp people and code workers.
It is better you set up Bootcamps and sell them versus absolving this. Like selling shovels during the gold rush, but not working in the mud of Alaska by yourself.
Your choice is: Making quick money, which fades anyway; or striving for the long-term future proof career.
C/S degrees from Technical Universities of reputation give to you the right direction under a strategic consideration. Companies which pay well, or freelancing with a solid acknowledged background, will always look for top graduates. People from Bootcamps are just OK for hammering assembly line coding. Even worse with SCRUM in one noisy room under enormous team server pressure controls, counting your lines of code per minute, with pale people all around. And groups of controllers never acknowledging nor trusting your work.
To acquire a serious degree, a Bachelor is nothing. Here, in INDIA, Bachelor now is what a former high school grade was. You must carry a diploma or Masters degree combined with internships at big companies with high brand recognition. This will require 4–6 years of your lifetime. You can support this financially by working part-time freelancing as making some projects front- or back-end web, data analysis and else.
Bootcamp people will lose in the long-term. They are the modern cannon fudder of software production.
It is your choice. Personally, I would never do Bootcamps. Quality and sustainability require time, deep studies and devotion.
Hello other devRanters! I have a question for all of the lady developers out there. Guys chime in too if you feel like it.
My girlfriend is a practicing doctor - and she loves what she's doing. But the other day, she casually mentioned something that really surprised me. "I kind of wish I learned to write code".
I'm kind of a horrible mentor, and I tend to figure things out on my own after hours and hours of digging around / experimenting.
I guess my question is, how did you guys get started as dev's, and what language? Was it a curiosity thing? Did you have a mentor? Self taught? I don't want to start off somewhere that risks discouraging her from pursuing it.
I'd like to provide her somewhere to start, just to see if it peaks her interest.
Any thoughts would be appreciated :)10
First time ranter here;
I'm an aspiring developer, undergoing a bootcamp right now. But to pay the bills I recently started working in accounting in an insurance company, registering payments from ~10 years ago (my first office job, retail and restaurants were all my previous experience). The job is boring, I feel like nobody gives a shit about it, most of the time I have no idea what I'm doing, I don't get ANY feedback about my work... I just have to survive a few more months until I get a developer job or an internship, but good grief, it feels like such a distant future...1
The near future is in IOT and device programming...
In ten years most of us will have some kind of central control and more and more stuff connected to IOT, security will be even a bigger problem with all the Firmware bugs and 0-day exploits, and In 10 years IOT programmers will be like today's plumbers... You need one to make a custom build and you must pay an excessive hour salary.
My country is already getting Ready, I'm starting next month a 1-year course on automation and electronics programming paid by the government.
On the other hand, most users will use fewer computers and more tablets and phones, meaning jobs in the backend and device apps programming and less in general computer programs for the general public.
Programmers jobs will increase as general jobs decrease, as many jobs will be replaced by machines, but such machines still need to be programmed, meaning trading 10 low-level jobs for 1 or 2 programming jobs.
Unlike most job areas, self-tough and Bootcamp programmers will have a chance for a job, as experience and knowledge will be more important than a "canudo" (Portuguese expression for the paper you get at the end of a university course). And we will see an increase of Programmer jobs class, with lower paid jobs for less experienced and more well-paid jobs for engineers.
In 10 years the market will be flooded with programmers and computer engineers, as many countries are investing in computer classes in the first years of the kids, So most kids will know at least one programming language at the end of their school and more about computers than most people these days.
Ok. I got it. I need a portfolio. That will speak for you. I’m working on it. I’m building great stuff. In the meantime. How the heck do I get a job as a junior web developer with no experience. I only have a coding bootcamp and a 4 month internship. All companies want people with experience. You won’t even have an interview without experience. So what’s the strategy then? Looking out for some words of wisdom from fellow devs.7
Alright guys question time, I have been given a coding challenge by a company for a junior dev position and as someone who is new to programming I was not able to figure it out on my own and turned to stack. So I found the answer and its acctually for the exact same company & challenge. They literally named dropped the company. I am slowly figuring out what the person has done, but its in php which is a langauge I have never used and I am entirely certain I would not have figured it out on my own. Also, I am a n00b. I am obviously going to modify the code and like see if I can change/improve it - but should I even bother freaking sending it, if I had no clue how to figure it out myself. I am at a loss. I don't know if I would be able to keep up there or if I would be cheating or overselling my abilities. I am from a bootcamp and it seems they typically prefer people with computer programming backgrounds but I do have some of the skills mentioned in the ad and their big thing is culture and cover letters which I slay at. Idk. Fuck me.26
Not really a rant but a question:
I just got accepted into a coding bootcamp. Have any of you been involved in one? How was it? What would you do to make it a better experience throughout? Any advice or suggestions?
It's full time, six months long and I start in October and I want to make sure I make the most of the experience and absorb as much as possible.
Found this coding bootcamp advertisement while I was scrolling through Reddit:
“... we provide a better way to learn, free of tuition AND TEACHERS...”
- I learn my code in da streets, yo5
are there any linux/unix classes and if so what field/major do you come across them in?
so many times at my job i hear over the cubes, "oh you can use this `sed` command," or other generic command line tools: awk, grep, find...yesterday i heard, "ya i knew about `kill`, but i didn't know about `kill -9` "
also, i've seen here (and heard happens elsewhere) a wave of college hires that immediately all go to special 'bootcamp' type classes for a month or more.
so...the company knows the degree doesn't mean all that much then, right?
you have to learn new things in every job, but it seems linux isn't taught and yet it's used everywhere.
now i'm thinking too much into society complexity, could go off on how k-12 doesn't teach enough or the right things, so i'ma stfu
is college useful?
does anyone find themselves having to teach the same things over and over?
teach surprising things?
anyone else who didn't go to college who feels they piss others off because they don't have a degree?9
If anyone can do a 12-week bootcamp to become a ‘developer’, where are the 12-week bootcamps to become a lawyer or doctor? 🤔6
Best code review experience was when I was mentor in a bootcamp and I had to review code from scholars, they were surprised by how their code could be written in less lines.
Maybe I should quit my job already, drive for Uber for a while and self-study until I get into a coding bootcamp, and find a better job.1
Is it a good idea to go to a coding bootcamp and shell out thousands of dollars? How about a college? I know some devs think it’s best to self learn and pay no one. I’m currently trying to make a big decision and looking for pointers.4
TDD is the bane of my existence right now. When I first put the cash down for this bootcamp I never thought writing tests would be the hardest part. The extra layer of abstract thinking is really slowing me down!
Tired of seeing people showing off their bootcamp certification on LinkedIn as if they had just climbed Mount Everest, and as if they were about to enter the most glamorous field of work one could imagine.
OK I went through a bootcamp myself but I certainly knew I was still a baby upon completion of the journey and still consider I have a veeery long way to go today after two years of dev work experience. Also I knew working as a developer probably wouldn’t be as awesome as these bootcamps make it out to be. In fact it’s everything but glamorous when you take into account the stress, the dynamics with coworkers, POs, PMs, shitty management, wacky clients, weird demands, deadlines etc.
Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy being a developer and have more or less been able handle the workload and expectations. But for goodness sake stop drilling into bootcampers’ heads that it’s gonna be amazing and that they’re doing incredible things. Congratulate them for their hard work and then wish them good luck because they’re going to need it. Bootcampers, stay humble. Be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best3
Looking for an online Bootcamp to learn front end development and eventually full-stack. I was looking at a combo of Free coding camp and Udemy Complete web developer Bootcamp. Any suggestions?1
I started my coding journey with JAVA ! I l grasped the basic concepts like LOOPS TYPECASTING ARRAYS etc. pretty well but failed to cope up with stacks , queues . So I switched to python and completed the Python Bootcamp from Udemy and now I am pretty confident in python . So should I try to learn Java again ?2
A little more than a year ago I attended to this coding bootcamp where the leading instructor made us open up Vim and told a joke about "those guys who can't quit Vim". It still hurts, but it's getting better every time I get the chance to do the same with others.1
When can you call yourself a web developer? Is it when you start making money off of it, or can do a project successfully? I'm still in my bootcamp, but was just pondering thus with my other classmates. We were very proud that one day we'll call ourselves devs!4
One thing I realized about my workplace: when you're given a new template to be used for an existing website project, do NOT use the included CSS files. Seems like it would be better to just manually change the looks of the website to make it similar to that template, lest you want some alignment stuff to break.
Plus, it seems that I don't even need to meet all the design requirements, because whenever I try to do that, clients tend to forget the design they originally gave and request for all these changes.
One more month... One more month and I'm off to bootcamp to properly learn.1
I'd like to build my own, I've helped many friends complete them, not because the teaching was bad, but because I helped them apply for the bootcamp.
I enjoy teaching what I know and I didn't really learn how to program until my final few months of university anyway, so if these had existed prior to me going to university... I might have gone to one of those instead and saved me some money. Admittedly no degree, but I've never been asked to produce my degree and many people who graduated couldn't program anyway...
Is looking up the answers a good way to learn?
I started with free code camp a while back and always just looked up the answers and reverse engineered them when running into trouble. If I didn’t get it I’d look up a few videos on the idea.
But recently I started at a boot camp and after I asked they greatly discouraged me from doing this but I don’t see an alternative. I could just spent hours trying to guess the right answer and maybe eventually get the right one, but then my head is full of wrong answers and it takes forever. It feels like reinventing the wheel every time. I’m scared when I get further on in the bootcamp I won’t be able to find the answers online and I’ll be directionless.
Is this just imposter syndrome or am I cheating? Everyone I’ve asked said looking up what to do is part of the job.2
Windows is a software form of cancer.
I just wanted to play Doom 2016 while having an MacBook 12 as my only computer. It didn't worked through Wine, so I decided to go for Bootcamp.
So i've installed windows 10, and after booting back to OSX, I found out that my Bluetooth doesn't work anymore.
I actually got a Mac just to run away from Windows and Windows-ness in all its forms. Speaking ideologically, I by mistake given it a chance to leak through the barriers I build especially to prevent it. Given this kind of chance, it leaked through and spilled over my gorgeous, cute, innocent MacOS, destroying it.
Windows is like aids. Software form of merciless alien pathogen that uses the tiniest kind of chance to leak and serves it's only purpose — destroying everything we call "good", everything we proud of, everything that's valuable to us.
Windows is worse than cancer. It's the software form of pure evil.12
I knew programming was for me, MUCH later in life.
I loved playing with computers growing up but it wasn't until college that I tried programming ... and failed...
At the college I was at the first class you took was a class about C. It was taught by someone who 'just gets it', read from a old dusty book about C, that assumes you already know C... programming concepts and a ton more. It was horrible. He read from the book, then gave you your assignment and off you went.
This was before the age when the internet had a lot of good data available on programming. And it didn't help that I was a terrible student. I wasn't mature enough, I had no attention span.
So I decide programming is not for me and i drop out of school and through some lucky events I went on to make a good career in the tech world in networking. Good income and working with good people and all that.
Then after age 40... I'm at a company who is acquired (approved by the Trump administration ... who said there would be lots of great jobs) and they laid most people off.
I wasn't too sad about the layoffs that we knew were comming, it was a good career but I was tiring on the network / tech support world. If you think tech debt is bad, try working in networking land where every protocols shortcomings are 40+ years in the making and they can't be fixed ... without another layer of 20 year old bad ideas... and there's just no way out.
It was also an area where at most companies even where those staff are valued, eventually they decide you're just 'maintenance'.
I had worked really closely with the developers at this company, and I found they got along with me, and I got along with them to the point that they asked some issues be assigned to me. I could spot patterns in bugs and provide engineering data they wanted (accurate / logical troubleshooting, clear documentation, no guessing, tell them "i don't know" when I really don't ... surprising how few people do that).
We had such a good relationship that the directors in my department couldn't get a hold of engineering resources when they wanted ... but engineering would always answer my "Bro, you're going to want to be ready for this one, here's the details..." calls.
I hadn't seen their code ever (it was closely guarded) ... but I felt like I 'knew' it.
But no matter how valuable I was to the engineering teams I was in support... not engineering and thus I was expendable / our department was seen / treated as a cost center.
So I do a bunch of stuff online and I'm enjoying it, but I also want a classroom experience to get questions answered and etc.
Unfortunately, as far as in person options are it felt like me it was:
- Go back to college for years ---- un no I've got fam and kids.
- Bootcamps, who have pretty mixed (i'm being nice) reputations.
So layoff time comes, I was really fortunate to get a good severance so I've got time ... but not go back to college time.
So I sign up for the canned bootcamp at my local university.
I could go on for ages about how everyone who hates boot camps is wrong ... and right about them. But I'll skip that for now and say that ... I actually had a great time.
I (and the handful of capable folks in the class) found that while we weren't great students in the past ... we were suddenly super excited about going to class every day and having someone drop knowledge on us each day was ultra motivating.
After that I picked up my first job and it has been fun since then. I like fixing stuff, I like making it 'better' and easier to use (for me, coworkers, and the customer) and it's fun learning / trying new things all the time.
Has anyone managed to install a Linux Distro over the Boot camp partition on a newer MacBook pro with touch bar? My old 2012 MBP had a tri-boot on it because it had Mint, Win10 and macOS living together in almost harmony. Now I have a 2017 MBP and I can't even get it to live boot from a USB (a type-C one at that! Because of the Nexus 5X I have lots of type-C accessories).3
Well, after almost a year of doing self study and what not... I decided to enroll in a bootcamp. Partially to help keep me accountable, mostly to help with networking and making contacts in the industry around me. I'm really stoked for it in spite of skepticism. They do offer guaranteed job placement if you finish the course, which was a major selling point for me. I'm curious if anyone on here has attended one? Thoughts? Success stories? Horror stories? From the research I've done, seems like you get what you put into it.
I'm starting from today a bootcamp for improve my skills as developer.
Wish me luck, or time for the tasks...3
I've been doing a bootcamp in my country, learned the basics with c#, did some small projects but nothing too impressive. I started also web I'm that bootcamp, learned the basics of html css and js.. then all this corona madness started and yes, we still have classes online but less times a week and it's way harder. I'm feeling a little lost with what to learn, how and scared I might never be able to get a job. Ps. First rant and it does feel better even tho no one will read the whole thing :p2
The only issue is I was going to start school for a 2 year associates of applied science (programming specialist ) degree. If I do the bootcamp it would postpone school. So my decision comes down to doing the bootcamp and postponing school, or finish school then possibly see if there is an opening in 2 years for bootcamp. What do y'all think?15
So i guess Zoom and other video conferencing applications are feeling the pressure! I am currently taking an online class for my bootcamp, and the audio and video are both so glitchy!1
WTF is happening to macbook speakers on bootcamp. Win10 is sucking all the good beats and bass from every sound wave that tries to find it's way out. and the volume is too fucking low.
Anyone here was able to find a fix?5
Today I talked to a recent full stack developer bootcamp graduate who decided to change careers when she was having a hard time finding a job as a UX designer.
I can't help but judge her by her website. It is beautifully made. The CSS transitions are clean, the details are fine and it had an amazing feel. However, when I took a peak at the console I found out it was made with a SquareSpace template.
With UX background and being a recent fullstack bootcamp graduate, why make it with SquareSpace? It just feels really off. With that background you should at least be able to make a static Gatsby React page and host it on Heroku or Github.
Am I overreacting?1
Apple really should post a link someplace for the latest Bootcamp drivers. Why is life so difficult?2
Tested the windows linux subsystem. Thought windows did something good by implementing a complete Linux bash. Then I recognized that they just piped it into the win kernel. Lol they broke it again XD
Next steps are removing windows, burn that m2 ssd in some gasoline, throw the ashes in a deep hole next to my old bootcamp 40GB HDD (Mac OS X) and finally setting up a new fresh and clean system which won't get in touch with any Windows forever.
My first CS class is a basic introductory C++ course. Won't even be going into OOP.
So I want to use my own laptop for the course, but I have a Mac. Thought I could use Visual Studio for Mac for the class, but turns out Visual Studio for Mac is really only for Multiplatform development with C#. Ok, then, screw that. Just wasted 20GB and an evening installing that just to uninstall it.
I'm using JetBrain's CLion for now, but apparently we'll be doing some graphics work later this semester so I'm going to need to install Windows via Bootcamp and Visual Studio there... but my SSD is too small...
I currently have Windows/Bootcamp installed on a 1TB external hard disk but that is slow af. My SSD is only 250GB and I've already used half of it for various programs I need (Adobe crap plus Logic crap cuz I make videos and music).
My only option here is to buy a new SSD but only one manufacturer sells those (OWC), and a 1TB SSD is stupid expensive, $700 almost as much as I paid for this laptop used.
So, I guess I'm just kinda deciding right now whether upgrading storage is really worth it...6
I can't even concentrate anymore. I am dying to tell my boss that I'm quitting to go to a bootcamp. But I'm not quite sure if it's the right time. I have to be 100% first about my alternative source of income, which is ridesharing.
What's up guys any devs from San Diego? I'm currently looking for a job or projects to work on. I'm fresh out of code bootcamp at LEARN Academy. Any Ruby devs out there?2
Anyone playing Star Trek Online via Wine, PlayOnMac, CrossOver, or WineBottler? They yanked the official Mac installer in February and I refuse to allocate space for bootcamp or my Macbook Pro or a dual boot on my hackintosh. I got it working momentarily on crossover but something went wrong.
Damn you Cryptic Studios!
So I need some advice... I've been applying for jobs as a web dev for a while now but not so much as a bite. I think a large part of this is a lack of formal education. Do you think it's worth attending a class just for the certificate? Maybe do a bootcamp? If you got hired while being self taught how did you do it?1
The only person I've met that went to a bootcamp was an ok dev. Didn' really know jack about anything besides simple crud applications though.
I was out of work for 6 months...I applied at a company that takes in devs and trains them. There was a test, then a personal interview, then a bootcamp process...it was hard. But I pulled through.
I want to learn front-end and i have offers of two bootcamps.please tell me which is better one-month or frontend-masters.
Note: i don't know anything about front-end1
Made some basic static sites in early 2010’s, started getting bootcamp ads frequently.
Eventually joined one & saw what I’ve been missing out on...actually tried in bootcamp and now I’m almost a real deal dev guy 👌🏿
...actually extremely happy but don’t wanna be that guy
the me who started learning at first felt proud that i gained skills all alone by watching tutorials, reading docs and making projects for fun. He would have said boot camps are for lazy and unmotivated people
the present me would say, i wish i could be spoon-fed everything i need in a bootcamp rather than spending hours on learning new tech
First time pithing about startup concept in startup bootcamp, 2 fucking dead air (fuck....)
but I'm able to finish my pitch in time.
(Feeling relief now)
So im about to finish a mean stack bootcamp in 2 weeks. Im working on my final project and its nothing too fancy im just doing a simple inventory app (i have future plans for it to bundle it into an entire suite for a specific subset of retail). So i take my live coding exam and fork it (simple app with crud finished) and im trying to add an edit feature that populates tge fields with the prior data. Spent the whole of yesterday working on it from 12a-midnight. Just this one feature to bring previous values into an edit page. Seems simple enough. But it wasnt working right. So im looking all over posted on SO even got a friend of mine thats been programming for 20 years to help me and we cant figure out why it thinks a variable is undefined when it clearly has a value dorectly before the save method fires. (Console.logged that shit)
At about midnight i realize its because i needed to write a router.put in the api because i was just using the regular save originally :/
Did you go to a coding boot camp? Which one? Was it a success? In what ways specifically? Can we see your portfolio? Are you happy?14
I'm about to be a Web Developer. Our bootcamp is about to end tomorrow. More sleepless nights for me then.
Are their any code bootcamp sorta deals that are actually worth the time and money? I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on them
So I have a MEAN app that is super simple just basic CRUD operations.
Man SO is so frustrating.
While I'm absolutely enjoying my bootcamp so far. There has been at least 3 or so days of getting people to install and configure the stuff we are working with...
Which sometimes takes hours...
Which sucks because I'm the only one using Linux in my class so it always comes down to 2 situations...
1- I already had it installed
2- install it super fast
Which leaves me with hours of free time... which feels silly in a classroom setting... irritating even...
At least I have time for my own stuff I guess....