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Search - "open offices"
Myth: "Open offices leads to massive collaboration"
Reality: 2 people collaborates loudly, 30 others have to wear headphones to get anything done13
Last Friday some company invited my project group (I am studying IT) to visit their offices.
After a little speech, they shew us the open spaces (dont feed the developers ;) ). After a few minutes, someone told me :
- "It's a fake, they are not true devs"
-" Seriously, who uses light theme to code?"7
Whoever thought huge open plan offices were a good idea needs shot in the fucking face with a brick-gun9
I got laid off from my previous position as a Software Engineer at the end of June, and since then it was a struggle to find a new position. I have a good resume, about 4 years of professional dev experience and 5 years of experience in the tech industry all together, and great references.
As soon as I got laid off, I talked to my old manager at my previous company, and he said that he'd love to hire me back, but he just filled his last open spot.
In order to prepare, I had my resume reviewed by a specialist at the Department of Labor, and she said that it was one of the better resumes that she had seen.
There aren't a huge amount of dev jobs in my area, and I got a TON of recruiter emails. But they were all in other states, and I wasn't interested in moving.
I applied to all the remote and local positions I could find (the ones that I was qualified for,) and I just got a bunch of silence and denials from all my applications. I had a few interviews that went great, but of course, those companies decided to put the position on hold so they could use the budget for other things.
The silence and denials were really disconcerting, and make you think that something might be wrong with you or your interviewing abilities.
And then suddenly, as if the floodgates had opened, I started getting a ton of callbacks and interviews for both local and remote opportunities. I don't know if the end-of-year budget surpluses opened up more positions, but I was getting a lot of interest and it felt amazing.
Another dev position opened up at my previous company, and I got a great recommendation for that from my former manager and co-workers. I got a bunch of other interviews, and was moved onto the next rounds in most of them.
And finally, I got reached out to regarding a remote position I applied for a while ago, and the company was great about making the interview process quick and efficient. Within 2 weeks, I went from the screening call, to the tech call, and to the final call with the CTO. The CTO and I just hung out and talked about cars/boats/motorcycles for half the interview, and he was an awesome guy. AND THEN I GOT AN OFFER THE NEXT DAY!
The offer was originally for about the same amount as I made at my previous job, but I counteroffered up a good amount and they accepted my counteroffer!
It's a great company with offices all over the world, and they offer the option to travel to all those offices for visits if you want. So if you're working on a project with the France team and you think that it'd be easier to just work with them face-to-face, then the company will pay to fly you out to Paris for the week. Or you can work completely remotely. They don't mind either way.
I'm super excited to work with them and it feels great to be back in the job world.
Sorry about the long post, but I just wanted to tell my story and help encourage anybody out there who's going through the same thing right now.
Don't get discouraged, because you WILL find an awesome opportunity that's right for you. Get somebody to go over your resume and give you improvement recommendations. Brush up on your interviewing skills. Be sure to talk about all the projects you've worked on and how they positively impacted people and/or companies.
This is what I found interviewers responded the best to: Be sure to emphasize that you love learning new things and that you love passing along that knowledge to other people, and that your goal is to be an approachable and reliable source of knowledge for the company and to be as helpful as possible. It's important to be in a position that encourages both knowledge growth and knowledge sharing, and I think that companies really appreciate that mindset in a team member.
Moral of the story: YOU GOT THIS!16
Got migrated from 3-nerd room to 18 person open office. Even call centers have cubicles, but noooo.
Who the FCK invented open plan offices?
I can see how the morons are rubbing their two cells together:
"Who on earth would like to have some quiet when thinking? Thinking is for nerds! Sales people make money and they like to yell all over the F!#!#! place.
Fck this. Turning in my resignation today.8
I hate open space offices for following reasons
- bright environment (I cannot turn off the light just for my own)
- noises (talking, discussions, chewing)
- requests and questions
But I still cannot afford to be in my own office room yet.
Now I have to wear a cap inside the office like a mad-hatter and plug my ears with earphones even without playing any music.11
(Best read while listening to AEnima by Tool, loudly)
Dear Current Workplace,
Fuck you, for the reasons enumerated below.
Fuck your enterprise grey blue offices, the stifling warm air of a hundreds of bodies and sub par "development laptops".
Fuck your shitty carbonated water machines which were a cost saving measure over decent drinkable water.
Fuck your fake "flexi time", "you can do home office whenever you want" bullshit. You're still inviting me to mandatory meetings at 09:00 regularly.
Fuck your shitty, in house, third part IT provider sister company. They're the worst of all worlds. If it was in company, we'd get to give out to them, if it was an external company we'd fire them. And yes, when I quit I will quote the dumpster fire that is our corporate VPN as a major factor.
Fuck your cheery, bland, enterprise communication. Words coming under the corporate letterhead seem to lose all association with meaning. Agile, communication, open are things you write and profess to respect, but it seems your totally lack understanding of their meaning.
Fuck your client driven development. Sometime you actually have to fix the foundations before you can actually add new features. And fuck you management who keep on asking "why are there so many bugs and why is it always taking longer to deliver new releases". Because of you, you fucknuts, Because you can't say "NO" to the customer. Because you never listen to your own experienced developers.
Fuck your bullshit "code quality is important to us" line. If it's so important, then let us fix the heap of shit you're selling so that it works like a quasi functional program.
Fuck you development environment which has 250 projects in a single VS solution. Which takes 5mins plus to compile on a quad core i7 with 32 gb of ram.
Fuck this bullshit ball of mud "architecture". I spend most of my time trying to figure out where the logic should go and the rest of the time writing converters between different components. All because 7 years ago some idiot "architect" made a decision that they didn't have to live with.
Actually, fuck that guy in particular. Yeah, that guy who was the responsible architect for the project for 4 years and not once opened the solution to look a the code.
Fuck the manual testing of every business process. Manual setup of the entities takes 10mins plus and then when you run, boom either no message or some bullshit error code.
Fuck the antiquated technology choices which cause loads of bugs and slow down development. Fuck you for forcing me to do manual tests of another developers code at 20:00 on a Friday night because we can't get our act together to do this automatically.
Fuck you for making sure it's very clear I'm never going to be anything but a code monkey in this structure. Managers are brought in from outside.
Fuck you for being surprised that it's hard to hire competent developers in this second rate, overpriced town. It's hard to hire anywhere but this bland shithole would have anyone with half a clue running away at top speed.
Fuck you for valuing long hours and loyalty over actual performance. That one guy who everyone hated and was totally incompetent couldn't even get himself fired. He had to quit.
Fuck you for your mediocrity.
Fuck you for being the only employer for my skill-set in the region; paying just well enough that changing jobs locally doesn't make sense, but badly enough that it's difficult to move.
Fuck you for being the stable "safe" option so that any move is "risky".
Fuck your mediocrity.
Fuck you for being something I think about when I'm not at work. Not only is it shit from 9 to 5 you manage to suck the joy out of everything else in my life as well?
Fuck you for making me feel like a worse developer every day I work here. Fuck you for making every day feel like a personal and professional failure. Fuck you for making me seriously leave a career I love for something, anything else.
Fuck you for making the most I can hope for when I get up in the morning is to just make it until the night.6
God damn manager doesn't allow headphones... She claims it's for "communication" reasons when in reality it's so she can just complain/ask us stuff and get an instant response, but it's fine cos we're never in the middle of something that requires a lot of concentration... :/
(There's also the sales team we have to hear on talking on the phone all day...)
An even worse thing that comes from this is everyone in the office gets a music day and the majority of the music people have on is the shitty chart stuff and rap... (Both of which I can't stand!)8
The exit interview with an ex boss.
While working there, we had regular meetings every other week. Discussing current work, equipment requests, technology, sometimes office politics. At some point we discussed that our team was moved to an open-plan office and how I regarded this as detrimental to our productivity and satisfaction. Of course we sometimes had different opinions, but it was an amicable atmosphere. My boss also always carried a personal organizer and sometimes wrote notes during these meetings.
Later I resigned. Him becoming more and more abusive was a major reason, and I think he knew he had crossed a line. So the day of the exit interview came...
In a professional setting, you'd thank each other for the good collaboration. Maybe laugh about one or two points from the past. And then wish each other success for the future and say farewell.
Not there. Not with him in the exit interview.
Instead, he apparently went through a list in his personal organizer. A list of every single thing we ever disagreed at. And roasted me for each. single. item. "Back when you said x... you can't really say it like that". Or "remember that time when you were against open-plan offices? Let me tell you, that's just your opinion. There are no actual arguments against them, it's just a matter of taste". And that went on and on and on. Like a final reckoning. Like he needed to get revenge. I hope that carnage made him happy, because it made *me* happy to have had resigned.
And it was fucking unprofessinal, because this is the management equivalent of stomping your foot in rage and anger, shouting "no no nooo I'm right! I! am! Riiiiiiight! *stomp*".6
So, now that companies are used to "WFH", maybe we can agree upon a better office for tech companies?
I do actually think the more "ideal" tech company office wouldn't have to be expensive.
It can be smaller. Any tech company worth it's salt should have discovered in the last few months that it's not just devs who can work from home. Sales, support, management — you really don't need to fight your way through highway traffic or cram yourself into a sweaty subway every day.
There's value in having an office. Not everyone can fit a good workspace in their apartment.
But we could at least center it around:
1. A bunch of small, completely soundproof isolation booths, for those who need a focus space, and can't find a silent spot at home.
2. A social lounge space, a communal living room with couches, a bar, creative relaxing stuff, whiteboards, etc. WFH can become depressing even for the most antisocial employees, chilling on a couch with some coworkers to brainstorm ideas or chat about random tech is valuable for building good relationships with your team.
The "open plan office" with rows of desks and monitors, no matter how luxuriously decorated with vertical gardens and hipster desks from reclaimed wood, can go die a fiery painful death.
I either want to work, or socialize.
Open plan offices (and it's even more dystopian suicide-inducing cousin, the cubicle) are like being unable to choose between fucking and a blowjob, so you end up humping a navel.
Oh, and conference rooms, go fuck yourself as well. I want to be able to minimize your ugly face if you plan to talk about company financial reports for 2 hours.2
> Worst work culture you've experienced?
It's a tie between my first to employers.
First: A career's dead end.
Bosses hardly ever said the truth, suger-coated everything and told you just about anything to get what they wanted. E.g. a coworker of mine was sent on a business trip to another company. They had told him this is his big chance! He'd attend a project kick-off meeting, maybe become its lead permanently. When he got there, the other company was like "So you're the temporary first-level supporter? Great! Here's your headset".
And well, devs were worth nothing anyway. For every dev there were 2-3 "consultants" that wrote detailed specifications, including SQL statements and pseudocode. The dev's job was just to translate that to working code. Except for the two highest senior devs, who had perfect job security. They had cooked up a custom Ant-based build system, had forked several high-profile Java projects (e.g. Hibernate) and their code was purposely cryptic and convoluted.
You had no chance to make changes to their projects without involuntarily breaking half of it. And then you'd have to beg for a bit of their time. And doing something they didn't like? Forget it. After I suggested to introduce automated testing I was treated like a heretic. Well of course, that would have threatened their job security. Even managers had no power against them. If these two would quit half a dozen projects would simply be dead.
And finally, the pecking order. Juniors, like me back then, didn't get taught shit. We were just there for the work the seniors didn't want to do. When one of the senior devs had implemented a patch on the master branch, it was the junior's job to apply it to the other branches.
Second: A massive sweatshop, almost like a real-life caricature.
It was a big corporation. Managers acted like kings, always taking the best for themselves while leaving crumbs for the plebs (=devs, operators, etc). They had the spacious single offices, we had the open plan (so awesome for communication and teamwork! synergy effects!). When they got bored, they left meetings just like that. We... well don't even think about being late.
And of course most managers followed the "kiss up, kick down" principle. Boy, was I getting kicked because I dared to question a decision of my boss. He made my life so hard I got sick for a month, being close to burnout. The best part? I gave notice a month later, and _he_still_was_surprised_!
Plebs weren't allowed anything below perfection, bosses on the other hand... so, I got yelled at by some manager. Twice. For essentially nothing, things just bruised his fragile ego. My bosses response? "Oh he's just human". No, the plebs was expected to obey the powers that be. Something you didn't like? That just means your attitude needs adjustment. Like with the open plan offices: I criticized the noise and distraction. Well that's just my _opinion_, right? Anyone else is happily enjoying it! Why can't I just be like the others? And most people really had given up, working like on a production line.
The company itself, while big, was a big ball of small, isolated groups, sticking together by office politics. In your software you'd need to call a service made by a different team, sooner or later. Not documented, noone was ever willing to help. To actually get help, you needed to get your boss to talk to their boss. Then you'd have a chance at all.
Oh, and the red tape. Say you needed a simple cable. You know, like those for $2 on Amazon. You'd open a support ticket and a week later everyone involved had signed it off. Probably. Like your boss, the support's boss, the internal IT services' boss, and maybe some other poor sap who felt important. Or maybe not, because the justification for needing that cable wasn't specific enough. I mean, just imagine the potential damage if our employees owned a cable they shouldn't!
You know, after these two employers I actually needed therapy. Looking back now, hooooly shit... that's why I can't repeat often enough that we devs put up with way too much bullshit.3
Update on the noisy office situation.
I resigned today.
Not entirely sure what to do next but can't take another day at that place. :-)5
So they took away our offices in favour of an open layout. This would have been fine if it was just us 3 devs and the manager, but we're sharing a space with network techs, help desk, the manager's secretary and an Accounts department all with little to no separation.
I'm now in the midst of incessant ringing of phones, idle chatter and raucous laughter with nowhere to retreat to for silence; I have no idea how/when I'm going to get any work done now. 😥😞
The organisation I work for is a f**king joke when it comes to management making any kind of logical decision.12
After googling "fuck whoever thought of open plan offices" out of pure rage, I found this gem of a website, now I'm happily surprised I'm not alone. :)11
How do you deal with open space offices?
I find it quite difficult to focus, the constant chatting, the constant questions, phone ringing, surprise meeting, more question, arrays of interruptions and questions again. I believe I would be a lot more productive if left alone in the total, undiscontinued silence.
Have you found your escape, your zen, your inner focus? Please share, I need some ideas16
Sometimes I wish I could work in an anechoic chamber, alone.
Big open offices can be a fucking pain in the butthole.
Phone ringing here, stupid chatter there, clattering keys and noisy Intel™ stock coolers.
Even 9 hours with over ear headphones, blasting a fresh breeze of technical death metal, can't cover up those distacting noisy cunts.
How do you cope with that?10
I have seen in a lot of forums (here, Imgur, reddit, LinkedIn etc) that there are a lot of developers without a job.
And most of them live in USA. I have not seen a person who is struggling to find a job in EU or some other place.
Why is this the case? In USA where the demand for developers is very high.
I read a post on LinkedIn: "40 INTERVIEWS and no one HIRED! Yet another friend telling me she can not find good talent. My thinking - If you interviewed 40 people and did not hire someone, then it's time to look in the mirror. The problem is recruiters and hiring managers are looking for the 'PERFECT" candidate. NEWSFLASH! There is no 'perfect' candidate. If you have someone with the right attitude and skill set, and they fit in with the team, why not HIRE them? There are so many qualified individuals still job searching. Yet I see the same jobs re-posted, over and over again, being left vacant for months. Who took a chance on you? Maybe it's time you a took chance on someone."
I don't think it is the "competition" because I see everywhere. I have seen entry-level or JR. open positions that are not filled for months.
It took me 1 month, sending nearly 20 applications every day to find a job in USA.
And the second one I got lucky. I applied in Europe and after some month I got transferred in offices in USA.
I do not know how true this is, but seriously, what's wrong with companies in USA that require the PERFECT candidate. Or is it something else?25
Just visited my new office! Tech offices are the best IMO. Open office plan, fully stocked pantry, bean bags, and a lot of cool stuff. Wayyy better than my previous job where we literally had desks and a coffee machine.5
Company with CULTURE
Company who doesnt allow tech team to WFH but editorial team is fine (or sales)
Sonos playing ALL DAY, and sales team talking all day, next to tech team desk
Dont u love open space offices?
I won a competition called “Google Code-In” and I’ll be in San Francisco this June. We’ll be visiting Google’s office is San Francisco & Mountain View. I would also like to visit other offices. Are there any which are open for public visit ?4
Open-plan offices are amazing. Fuck you developer who sometimes really needs some quiet time to be able to THINK.
Anyone have success dealing with nondevs and explaining the “zone” and to not interrupt if I’m programming and would like to share their techniques? I’m the only developer in the company I work for and all my coworkers/bosses don’t get it and even give me grief about using headphones in the office. I’ve actually gone into vacant offices off the open floor plan to try and program uninterrupted, but I don’t know how long I can keep that up without catching flak.3
You know, I sort of hope that open-plan offices become illegal after this Corona crisis.
We all know most companies don't give a flying fuck about the productivity, opinion or wellbeing of their "lowly work force". OTOH maybe, just maybe, do politicians care about lowering the risk of such a pandemic repeating. Pass some laws for reasonable working conditions already!7
My company just pulled the trigger on wfh. They just sent out an email saying tomorrow's the last day any of the offices in the region are open. Come in and get your shit. See you on teams.
Most of us have been working from home for a while anyway but there's been a few holdouts wondering why no one's coming in. It'll be interesting to see their reaction. On teams.
I always hated handshakes, being an in crowed and public places where a lot of people wandering around so no problem for people like me but i see people are idiots.
BTW i am staying home today. I called in sick (I am not sick actually, just taking care of myself)
Shaking hands, kissing, working together and private offices staying open.
and some company owners including mine are like :2
Worst part of being dev :
Open plan offices and people pulling you out of the "Zone" - Manager, PMs, QA , other devs. There is such thing as ' momentum ' ! :/
Have u ever had a "interview assignment"? If so, how did it go? Just had my first one. Waiting on results. It was using open weather API pulling weather from the (4) states where their offices are located.12
Open layout offices promotes collaboration, just look at the roommate full of people with headphones on.1
I started a new job in engineering at CenturyLink a few weeks ago - before this I was doing IT for dental offices in the greater Seattle area. Anyway, I wanted a registry tweak to make Excel open files in separate windows, instead of putting them in one. Today I was told by our IT that you need 16GB of RAM to open multiple Excel spreadsheets in separate windows. Suffice to say I told him he was insane and ended the chat.
And yes, I know there are ways to do it anyway, like opening new instances of Excel and then opening the file inside of Excel, but that's unnecessary clicks, dammit.
I'm stuck in a really difficult spot in my office and I'm not sure if I should start looking elsewhere. Tldr; there's no defined hierarchy or career path in the web department leaving no position to be promoted to.
We've got 2 offices with now 150+ employees and for the last 2 years I've basically inherited the responsibilities of an IT manager. Planning and deploying our networks, firewall config, VPN setup, keeping users' systems functional, track equipment, order/setup systems for new employees. All of this in addition to my original job description of web developer, which has basically turned into maintaining client WordPress sites while the other developer builds sites.
I've spoken to our CTO (my supervisor) about how much time the IT stuff actually takes and some of my suggestions for the future to make sure we protect ourselves and future proof our systems the best we can and one of my suggestions was that we needed to create the IT manager position because he is usually in meetings or building out API integrations. He's behind the idea, or at least says so to me, but leadership doesn't believe it's needed because we "manage just fine as it is" (this does require 60 hours a week of work along with much automation that I wrote/built). But we're trying to open a 3rd office which means another 50+ employees and systems to manage as well as more websites as we sign more clients.
My pay has never been satisfactory where I am and based on the maximum raise each year it would take me another 10 years to make what I would like (that's calculating without cost of living increase) but they claim this is because I lack a formal degree (self taught). I love most of the people I work with, don't really have an issue with any of them (outside that they're stupid but that I can let that slide if they're trying), and they work with me and my health issues which cause me to miss significantly more office time than I would like. I've been here for 4 years and I've learned a lot but I don't feel like there's any upward mobility here. The only position I see in my department above me is the CTO (or possibly the new PM but that's not a position I want) and he's not going anywhere, and I firmly believe we need someone who can full-time stay on top of our infrastructure before we expand further.
I fantasize occasionally about leaving and finding something else, and there are plenty of opportunities online that I appear qualified for which pay more, but I worry that I'd be trading in something that really isn't all that bad for something that sucks and the only real perk is more money. I'd hate to go somewhere else and start back at the bottom again and have to prove myself yet again.5
I don't know maybe it's just me, but Mac asking if i want to update softwares just distracts me so much.
Also you can only disable it for a day, so after that it will ask you again... :/
Also chances are that I'm just dumb and couldn't find a way to disable it. :D Also open offices, no idea who though that it's a good idea1
Incompetent bosses, open offices, stupid outfitting rules, ie compatibility mode, "fix me this", "explain me how does it work this app you've never used"