!rant

I've always wanted to son to enjoy the the same feeling I get when I'm developing. Today my son pulled up a chair next to me and started asking questions about my code, it's safe to say I got those proud dad feels.

Feels good man, feels real good.

Really want to get shit done today.

Lets browse Spotify for 3 hours to find good focus music.

Spend 2 hours designing a new IDE color theme and inspections which should really help me do code reviews faster

Oh, lunch time!

Maybe after lunch I should read some random clickbait blog posts on organizational paradigms.

...

And now I'm stranded on devRant. 😫

Customer: I don't see why you cant just make me something like Facebook for $300 this is ridiculous

Me: ...

OH: “We can just launch it at midnight, the devs can be on-call”

Reading your code from years back is one of the most painful experiences a developer has to go through.

#UnpopularOpinion

PHP isn't inherently a bad language. Bad developers give PHP a bad name.

Still trying to get good.

The requirements are forever shifting, and so do the applied paradigms.

I think the first layer is learning about each paradigm.

You learn 5-10 languages/technologies, get a feeling for procedural/functional/OOP programming. You mess around with some electronics engineering, write a bit of assembly. You write an ugly GTK program, an Android todo app, check how OpenGL works. You learn about relational models, about graph databases, time series storage and key value caches. You learn about networking and protocols. You void the warranty of all the devices in your house at some point. You develop preferences for languages and systems. For certain periods of time, you even become an insufferable fanboy who claims that all databases should be replaced by MongoDB, or all applications should be written in C# -- no exceptions in your mind are possible, because you found the Perfect Thing. Temporarily.

Eventually, you get to the second layer: Instead of being a champion for a single cause, you start to see patterns of applicability.

You might have grown to prefer serverless microservice architectures driven by pub/sub event busses, but realize that some MVC framework is probably more suitable for a 5-employee company. You realize that development is not just about picking the best language and best architecture -- It's about pros and cons for every situation. You start to value consistency over hard rules. You realize that even respected books about computer science can sometimes contain lies -- or represent solutions which are only applicable to "spherical cows in a vacuum".

Then you get to the third layer: Which is about orchestrating migrations between paradigms without creating a bigger mess.

Your company started with a tiny MVC webshop written in PHP. There are now 300 employees and a few million lines of code, the framework more often gets in the way than it helps, the database is terribly strained. Big rewrite? Gradual refactor? Introduce new languages within the company or stick with what people know? Educate people about paradigms which might be more suitable, but which will feel unfamiliar? What leads to a better product, someone who is experienced with PHP, or someone just learning to use Typescript?

All that theoretical knowledge about superior paradigms won't help you now -- No clean slates! You have to build a skyscraper city to replace a swamp village while keeping the economy running, together with builders who have no clue what concrete even looks like. You might think "I'll throw my superior engineering against this, no harm done if it doesn't stick", but 9 out of 10 times that will just end in a mix of concrete rubble, corpses and mud.

I think I'm somewhere between 2 and 3.

I think I have most of the important knowledge about a wide array of languages, technologies and architectures.

I think I know how to come to a conclusion about what to use in which scenario -- most of the time.

But dealing with a giant legacy mess, transforming things into something better, without creating an ugly amalgamation of old and new systems blended together into an even bigger abomination? Nah, I don't think I'm fully there yet.

I'm in that weird spot where the more I study programming, the more I realize I know next to nothing. I get pretty demotivated at times because it can be so overwhelming to study for hours, finally understand a topic... only to find out the next thing is even worse and there's literally thousands of things to learn, from languages themselves, to rules, best practices, paradigms and so on and so forth.

How do you guys deal with this? Do you even have the same problem?

Reading other people's code

If it works walk away slowly and never touch the code again.

I seear man fucking shit php devs make it hard for people to appreciate the language.
To start, i don't think there is anything wrong with php. As a language I know damn near all of its pitfalls and have successfully deployed huge applications with minimal fuss.

The thing is...this shit seems to happen only when I AM THE MOTHERFUCKER THAT DOES IT

In any other scenario i am constantly cursing the original author under my fucking breath hoping that they choke on their own dicks. Fucking cunts.

Really man, some of the fucking code i have seen. This shit is dangerous as fuck and i can't believe that in 2019 motherfuckers would not have the decency to google for best fucking practices or learn it from a fucking book and shit.

Writing proper php code is not that fucking hard people, every fucking update to the language, every fucking tool that comes out is for the betterment of it.
Guess proper oop or functional paradigms are too complex for some dickheads. Hell, not even top to bottom procedural code.

Fuck me. Good thing is, boss is happy, the entire faculty is happy, the board is happy. Everyone is motherfucking happy.

Dez negroids better remember this shit cuz I just asked for a $20k raise.

I got a raise literally every time i ask for one so this one better make the cut.

Fuck shit php developers man. Y'all don't deserve the language, y'all make the language look bad, y'all make the community look bad.

Fuck you, die and eat a dick. Do all that shit in whatever order you prefer.

I dive in head first.

Some existing program annoys me, so I get this itch to write a selfhosted Spotify in Go, or a conky with 3D graphics in Rust.

I check the homepage of the language, download the tools, check which IDE is great for it.

Then I just start writing code, following the error corrections thrown by the IDE, doing web searches for all errors. Then when I run into a wall, I might check the reference docs or a udemy course.

Often I don't finish the project, because time is limited and I still have 4 million other things to do and learn, but at least I've learned a new language/tech.

Con: For tech which uses unique paradigms like Rust's memory management or Go's Goroutines, it can be frustrating to bash away at a problem using old assumptions.

Pro: By having a real demand for a product with requirements instead of a hello world or todo app, it's much easier to stay motivated, and you learn beyond what courses would teach you.

I'm not sure *why*, but I increasingly see the following pattern:

Challenge a primarily OO / imperative dev by saying OO or imperative styles aren't always a good fit, and that a stateless functional approach can offer advantages, and you often get something akin to:

"Yeah, it's new to me so I'm still working my way around it, but I get that. Makes a lot of sense."

Challenge a functional dev by saying the functional style isn't always best, and in some cases functional isn't a good fit, and you tend to get:

"YOU IMBECILE! YOU ARE SIMPLY CONSTRAINED BY YOUR YEARS OF MINDLESSLY FOLLOWING THE OO HERD! FUNCTIONAL IS ALWAYS SUPERIOR!! ALWAYS, I TELL YOU!!"

I mean geez guys, calm down and learn it's just another tool in the toolbox. I get that popular paradigms emerge and have their die-hard supporters, but I didn't even see this kind of thing when OO became the "new thing everyone needs to use for everything" in the 90's.

Overworked team spends 2 months hacking together a Codecademy clone in record time: avoiding best practices, conflating paradigms, throwing shit at the wall until it stuck.

But today I submit a small UI fix that used a table instead of `display: table`...

First year: intro to programming, basic data structures and algos, parallel programming, databases and a project to finish it. Homework should be kept track of via some version control. Should also be some calculus and linear algebra.

Second year:
Introduce more complex subjects such as programming paradigms, compilers and language theory, low level programming + logic design + basic processor design, logic for system verification, statistics and graph theory. Should also be a project with a company.

Year three:
Advanced algos, datastructures and algorithm analysis. Intro to Computer and data security. Optional courses in graphics programming, machine learning, compilers and automata, embedded systems etc. ends with a big project that goes in depth into a CS subject, not a regular software project in java basically.

Probably the MOST complete software book on a very broad subject.

This is book to read for those of you are near college grad, first job in the industry. But to the level of detail and broad coverage this book has I think it’s actually a great book for everyone in the industry almost as a “baseline”

From requirements, project planning, workflow paradigms. Software Architecture design, variable naming, refactoring, testing, releasing the book covers everything, not only high level but also in reference to C.

Why C ...because in the consumer electronics, automotive industry, medical electronics and other industries creating physical products c is the language of choice, no changing that. BUT it’s not a C book... it contains C and goes into dept into C but it’s not a C book, C is more like a vehicle for the book, because there are long established, successful industry’s built around it. Plenty of examples.

When I say it’s the most complete on a broad subject seriously like example the chapter about the C language is not a brief over like many other books, for example 10 pages alone are dedicated to just pointer! Many C books have only a few paragraphs on the subject. This goes on depth.

Other topics, recursion, how to write documentation for your code.

Lots of detail and philosophy of the construction of software.

Even if you are a veteran software engineer you could probably learn a thing or two from the book.

It’s not book that you can finish in weekend, unless you can read and comprehend over 1000 pages.

Very few books cover such a broad topic ALL while still going into great detail on those subtopics. the second part is what lacks in most “broad topic books” ..

Code Complete.. is definitely “Complete”

So the image doesn’t match the rest of my book images because I tried to make an amage to cover of the book, inception style kinda haha 😂

So, this is probably somewhat esoteric but...

While studying at university I had a "programming paradigms" module, dunno why they called it that, it was more like "introduction to functional programming".

So, it's kinda mind bending, we'd only really started to get our heads around classical object oriented programming and they throw functional programming at us.

It's worse than that though, for do they use an established language, like lisp/scheme, functional Python, or even given Haskell?

No, of course they didn't. They taught us Oz.

You probably won't have heard of it, but this language is burned into the back of my brain, along with a vague understanding of the n-queens problem we had to solve graphically (using qTk, which I dunno if someone took qt and tk and blended them, I stopped asking questions after a while).

To top it off did this language (at the time) have a stand alone interpreter? Did it buggery! It was coupled to the Mozart programming system, which is just Emacs (which has a bloody lisp built into it,so close, yet so far 😭).

It gets worse, though, oh does it get worse, for pause dear reader and consider, have you ever heard of Mozart/oz before, I'd put money on most of you had not heard of it until today.

For, you see, I believe at the time of writing, one, yes, ONE text book exists on this language. When I was doing my assignment there was merely some published conference notes and language design documents.

That's not all, I was not the only one experiencing difficulties with this language, someone in the class ended up pouring through the mailing lists and found the very tutor teaching the class struggling at first to understand the language.

I had to repeat that year. The functional programming class was one semester.

When I retook that year, it was a whole year long. However, halfway through the year, original tutor was fired and a new tutor was hired to teach the language.

He was, understandably, just as confused as we were.

There was a Starbucks and a pub equidistant from the lecture hall, though in opposite directions. From lecture to lecture we had no idea which one we'd end up in.

I have reason to believe Mozart/Oz it some sort of otherworldly abomination designed to give students the occasional nightmare flashback, long after they've left.

My room had post it notes, sheets of paper, print outs, diagrams, doodles and pens, just stuck to the wall, I looked like a raving lunatic three hours away from being institutionalised. There was string connecting one diagram to the next and images of a chess queen all over. As I attempted to solve the n-queens problem.

Madmans knowledge, I call it. I can never unlearn all that, in fact it seeps into much of the code I write. Such information was not meant for the minds of a simple country bumpkin such as myself...

Mozart/Oz... I wouldn't be the programmer I am today without it, and that's frankly terrifying...

Katie, we get it, you know and like Scala. You mention this often.

It doesn't make you superior to everyone else. And it certainly doesn't mean you have to pretend every language is Scala, ignore any language-specific paradigms and conventions, and bastardise every bit of code you write until it's done in the most weirdly Scala-ish functional way possible even when it makes zero sense to do so.

Stick with the conventions of the existing language & codebase you muppet. Yeah, it's boring and won't turn you on, but it's a hell of a lot more readable than a random bastardised mixin in the middle of another existing inheritance hierarchy.

Main language, do people have such a thing? Some quixotic shit about various languages I use:

C#: Microsoft
F#: never quite committing to 100% functional paradigms while still being one of the most enjoyable langs I use
Java: null handling via optional and maybes are ugly, but better than it was
C++: surprisingly functional in 2020
Haskell: no one else seems to ❤️ it, despite it being fucking beautiful
Kotlin: Ternary warfare, Czech sports opinions on how languages should work
Clojure: parenthetical scoping makes me far happier than it should
Typescript: makes ever more sense as it changes

When I was in college OOP was emerging. A lot of the professors were against teaching it as the core. Some younger professors were adamant about it, and also Java fanatics. So after the bell rang, they'd sometimes teach people that wanted to learn it. I stayed after and the professor said that object oriented programming treated things like reality.

My first thought to this was hold up, modeling reality is hard and complicated, why would you want to add that to your programming that's utter madness.

Then he started with a ball example and how some balls in reality are blue, and they can have a bounce action we can express with a method.

My first thought was that this seems a very niche example. It has very little to do with any problems I have yet solved and I felt thinking about it this way would complicate my programs rather than make them simpler.

I looked around the at remnants of my classmates and saw several sitting forward, their eyes lit up and I felt like I was in a cult meeting where the head is trying to make everyone enamored of their personality. Except he wasn't selling himself, he was selling an idea.

I patiently waited it out, wanting there to be something of value in the after the bell lesson. Something I could use to better my own programming ability. It never came.

This same professor would tell us all to read and buy gang of four it would change our lives. It was an expensive hard cover book with a ribbon attached for a bookmark. It was made to look important. I didn't have much money in college but I gave it a shot I bought the book. I remember wrinkling my nose often, reading at it. Feeling like I was still being sold something. But where was the proof. It was all an argument from authority and I didn't think the argument was very good.

I left college thinking the whole thing was silly and would surely go away with time. And then it grew, and grew. It started to be impossible to avoid it. So I'd just use it when I had to and that became more and more often.

I began to doubt myself. Perhaps I was wrong, surely all these people using and loving this paradigm could not be wrong. I took on a 3 year project to dive deep into OOP later in my career. I was already intimately aware of OOP having to have done so much of it. But I caught up on all the latest ideas and practiced them for a the first year. I thought if OOP is so good I should be able to be more productive in years 2 and 3.

It was the most miserable I had ever been as a programmer. Everything took forever to do. There was boilerplate code everywhere. You didn't so much solve problems as stuff abstract ideas that had nothing to do with the problem everywhere and THEN code the actual part of the code that does a task. Even though I was working with an interpreted language they had added a need to compile, for dependency injection. What's next taking the benefit of dynamic typing and forcing typing into it? Oh I see they managed to do that too. At this point why not just use C or C++. It's going to do everything you wanted if you add compiling and typing and do it way faster at run time.

I talked to the client extensively about everything. We both agreed the project was untenable. We moved everything over another 3 years. His business is doing better than ever before now by several metrics. And I can be productive again. My self doubt was over. OOP is a complicated mess that drags down the software industry, little better than snake oil and full of empty promises. Unfortunately it is all some people know.

Now there is a functional movement, a data oriented movement, and things are looking a little brighter. However, no one seems to care for procedural. Functional and procedural are not that different. Functional just tries to put more constraints on the developer. Data oriented is also a lot more sensible, and again pretty close to procedural a lot of the time. It's just odd to me this need to separate from procedural at all. Procedural was very honest. If you're a bad programmer you make bad code. If you're a good programmer you make good code. It seems a lot of this was meant to enforce bad programmers to make good code. I'll tell you what I think though. I think that has never worked. It's just hidden it away in some abstraction and made identifying it harder. Much like the code methodologies themselves do to the code.

Now I'm left with a choice, keep my own business going to work on what I love, shift gears and do what I hate for more money, or pivot careers entirely. I decided after all this to go into data science because what you all are doing to the software industry sickens me. And that's my story. It's one that makes a lot of people defensive or even passive aggressive, to those people I say, try more things. At least then you can be less defensive about your opinion.

Don't focus too much on learning one specific language. After some coding getting to know a new one is going to be no problem. Focus more on paradigms and maintainable code.
Oh, and don't forget, comments are sometimes way more useful than the actual code.

HTML & CSS.

To me they just feel wrong.

I have been working with them for a little over 20 years now, and it feels like very little has improved. Sure we learned to make things look a bit nicer, we got new tags and properties, but the syntax is still horrible.

The fact that both are replaced by other imperfect languages (haml, jade, less, sass, etc) is just a confirmation that their paradigms are about as fucked up and impossible to exterminate as cobol.

Which points at another problem: browsers, and how slow the web upgrade cycle is — adding native support for nested style definitions in css, or replacing html with a json document seems like a trivial problem, if it weren't for the dozens of browsers and the excruciating pace at which they can adopt standards.

So technical interview today but woke up (6am) and started thinking about it and it led to this rant about algorithms. This is probably going into a Medium post if I ever get around to finishing it but sort of just wanted to share the rant that literally just went off in my mind.

*The problem with Algorithms Technical Interviews Is They don't test Real skills*

Real world problems are complex and often cross domain combining experience in multiple areas. Often the best way is not obvious unless you're a polymath and familiar with different areas, paradigms, designs. And intuitively can understand, reason, and combine them.

I don't think this is something a specific algorithm problem is designed to show. And the problem is the optimal solution to some of these and to algorithm design itself is that unless you train for it or are an algorithm designer (practice and experience), you can only brute force it in the amount of time given.

And quite frankly the algorithms I think we rely on daily weren't thought of in 30 minutes. The designers did this stuff for a living, thought about these problems for days and several iterations… at least. A lot were mathematicians. The matrix algorithm that had a Big O of 7N required a flash of insight that only someone constantly looking and thinking about the equations could see.

TBA
-system design
-clean readable coding practices
...

TLDR: I could probably go on and on about this stuff for hours jumping from item/example/area to the next and back again... But I don't think you can test these (~20) years of experience in a 1 hr technical interview focused on algorithms...

How ignorant we all are about the world. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just a fact. After a four year degree I've learnt so much, how a computer works from the physical phenomena on the hardware level to the inner workings of an OS to the highest level abstractions of modern web development, a wide array of programming languages covering several different paradigms, mathematics from calculus to statistics to algebra, how to work with databases, how to administrate a server, how to build a website, and much more.

And that's just in a degree. I have knowledge in one domain and I wouldn't even call myself an expert in it. Medicine, physics, biology, the hundreds of branches of engineering from civil to nautical to aerospace to automobile, to geology to meteorology to astronomy, to the practical application of this knowledge in hundreds of trades. There's so much more to know in so much depth and only recently have I realized how little we all know on an individual level.

Finding this out has been a mixed bag, on the one hand it's made me value what I know and what others can teach me a hell of a lot more, on the other, knowing that people haven't realized this and adamantly discuss and impose from a position of ignorance isn't very nice.

tl;dr I know that I know nothing

We need to separate concerns. Too many CS courses skip over theory and teach outdated tools and technologies, often those of a sponsor who is failing in the market.

Computer Science is supposed to be about the science and formalisms of computation. The job of programming is Software Engineering. A few colleges have SE degrees, but too few.

No one understands anymore the likes of Knuth, McCarthy, Dijkstra, and Hoare. I'm willing to bet that most of you have never read any of their work. Few people really understand their impact on the tools we use today or the importance of their work. CS courses should teach that and expand on it so we can get more huge leaps in tools and concepts.

But we also need Software Engineering to teach students current tools and the latest paradigms.

CS, as it is, doesn't do that.

Rails. Fucking rails...

God damn monoliths, built by a cowboy coder.

Every one I have ever worked with becomes (or already is) a house of fucking cards that will blow over at the slightest gust of wind.

The worst part is that you always hear the same justifications from rails developers, then after they convince the higher-ups that “we will build it right, not like those other monoliths” we find ourselves F’ed right in the A a few months later.

It’s this frustration that lead me to MUCH better paradigms like Microservices, Event-Sourcing, CQRS, Domain Driven Design and the like.

When someone says “our backend is in rails” my first response is “so when are you replacing it?”

I like finding "the book" for a particular technology. Be it libraries, languages, concepts etc.

I have many for different languages or paradigms. But I noticed that there is one in particular that I do not have something for: CSS

So, my lads, what would you say is THE book in CSS?

I have tried hard to show my ex boss a better way to build web apps. I really tried.
I understand that some people just don't want to lose their investment, and in my opinion classic ASP was bad but not nearly as bad as a lot of people made it out to be. I enjoyed it, was fascinated by the ammount of shit I had to do by hand when using it and the lack of more modern paradigms as the ones found in more mothern languages, but really believed that it microsoft wanted they could have continue to provide updates to the language and ecosystem rather than dropping everything in favor of .net ( which is awesome really)

But his time is ticking and I really liked him as a person, he was kind and willing to adapt to my schedules and pay considerations. I really don't want him to lose clients because his stack does not conform to the new and shiny.

I guess he is scared of me offering to rewrite portions in newer tech since he does not want me to leave and leave him without a developer that knows that stuff. So i have offered myself a position along him as a partner, not a worker, since that way it will be my product investment and I will not leave it just like that.

Dude is really wealthy so he can afford it and he knows I will not do him any wrong.

I nust wish he would reconsider promptly since it would suck to have me as competition.

You sure get weird looks when you explain code written with functional paradigms😒

rant="""
It's too many features for me to keep up with. And the client just bounces between this matrix of all the possible permutations of them, refusing to admit that he is asking for mutually exclusive behavior in more than one place. I have mentioned to him at least 12 times a year that there is too much going on, not organized, we need to simplify, prioritize, or we will have 100 half baked untested features.

Of course it is more or less made it out to be that this is all my fault, or at least it's hard not to feel that way when I say:

It will be a long time before X will be working, we need 25 other things first.;

Next day he asks:
Have you made any progress on X;

I reply: Now we need 24 things to be done at this rate it will be a month.;

He replies:
Ok but I need this yesterday. How about if you add a new feature Y that does everything X does without those 24 things?;

I reply: That will not work at all like X. Y is just X + 1 more feature.

He replies: Ok well I need Y so when you're done with X I need a way to do it like Y also. I just thought it'd be easier.

EASIER TO ADD MORE FUCKING FEATURES YEAH SURE THATS EASY AS FUCK YOU FUCK FUCK FUCK. He's a nice enough guy, pretty smart compared to my first few paying gigs, but wtf really? How do I come out and tell you I need 25 days and you ADD more work? This was one example.

IN TWO days he has added 12 features. And during the week has asked for 29 UI interfaces to be COMPLETELY different. This is becoming COMMONPLACE. Every week there is either a huge change, or a conversation like about that finds its way into the entire business flow inside an dout.

The worst thing is: I TOTALLY understand what he needs. I feel that HE doesn't. This weekend I spent literally HALF of his retainer on getting equipment into my hands to bring it back to find out it DOESNT WORK. Why aisn't HE doing this so I can finish the features from NOVEMBER that HE NEEDS in order to PROCESS SALES.

I've tried and tried but I just can't get through to this client what a tremendous waste of time his \"process\" is, for lack of a better word. Constant changes, contsant additions, lack of clarity, needless repetition and contradictions, constantly adding moonshot ideas to compete with every industry in the region, and not beta testing anything until something goes wrong.

Fuck this guy! His business is failing and I felt responsible for the longest time but it is clear to me that if I wanted to save his business I would have to ignore 95% of his feature requests. I ignore 50% now because of the stress in trying to determine which of the 3 different paradigms he is talking about changing. I will lose this client, and I feel like he will sue me to get all of his money back. He holds me to very little honestly - BUT WEEKLY reminds me that he won't be able to pay me next month if feature XY and Z arent ready!

If a developer is CLEARLY overwhelmed, it makes NO sense at all to continue to PILE ON feature after feature
"""
try:
while true:
rant+=", after feature"
except DevHeadExplodes as inevitable:
raise YourDevsRatesOrLookElsewhere(inevitable)

Software engineering doesn't evolving the way you think of it.

There are no new big patterns. There are no new big concepts and ideas to bring that evolution to us. Rob Pike thinks that the concepts he used twenty years ago are the best possible way of implementing everything and he creates Golang.

The evolution of software engineering, and maybe the whole evolution as a concept is a tick-tock. Software engineering had its latest tick at nineties, when the concepts we call modern were developed. And the latest tock was the rise of the internet, and it given the single-computer-centered Von Neumann architecture really hard challenges. I mean ticks are theoretical inventions and patterns and ideas and etc, while tock is more of some practical, business-oriented implementations.

PHP is still in use. We have troubles with scaling and deployment. Banking systems still run old Java, Windows XP and even COBOL. We had persistence really, really long time ago, and now frontenders reinvent it and call it 'immutability'!

We had our tick many, many years ago. It's time for tock. With not only scientific but commercial use of things such as Clojure, CRDTs and maybe Rust lang, we are heading straight to our new big tock, which'll bring us new great problems to solve.

That's how any evolution goes.

Servey Question.

How many you programmers have a working knowledge of how compilers work? The philosophy and mathematics behind them. Different stages. The choices one might have to make at different stages. Reasoning about the said choices. Difference between different paradigms -- philosophically and implementation wise. The tools one might use.

Reason behind I'm asking this is that I got into a debate with a friend where he said 9/10 of people whom we call "developers" have little to no idea how compilers work.

!rant
What use is all my theoretical knowledge of patterns, structures and paradigms when I am too lazy and unconcentrated to actually sit down and get my ideas running?

Am I the only backend Web developer with minimal knowledge of frontend? How can frontend be so hard.

In my experience object oriented is very good for composing high level abstractions into a complete system. Functional is awesome for validation, parsing and massaging data in any way and imperative is tithe most useful paradigm to handle side effect dependent code that either manipulate the computers state ( read/write) or communicate with external systems.

The people acting as if one of them is the one true way are misleading you.

Anyone in here successfully using a pure FP language/ecosystem on their day to day?

I know of one of you that uses Scala, and myself I have an (admittedly) shitty application at work running in Clojure. These last two languages I mentioned are not pure FP.

I am talking about the likes of PureScript, Haskell, etc. Those mfkas.

If so,what is your experience working in said paradigm? I tried to keep my Clojure program as pure as possible, I failed, but enjoyed it.

And I know that FP is not a silver bullet, but in some scenarios when properly applied it can work beautifully. I also have React based applications with pure components, but Javascript itself is neither a functional(pure or otherwise) programming language, it merely supports functional paradigms.

Just wondering, no flamewars or anything like that, I just want to know your pros and cons.

hmmmmmm let me see.

Web based? lets do web based.

Do something simple like a basic crud app on web api format:
Do it with full authorization and authentication.
Start hard. Do it with pure golang using NOTHING but the std libraries.
Now, do it in a magic mvc framework like Rails or Laravel
Now do it on dotnet core
Now do it in django rest.

Watch the differences in all of them, sell your soul to something and now do it in Clojure. If you do it on a Scheme dialect or on Common Lisp my CMS admin will suck your whatever you have. Dude seems to be pretty good at it, we are trying to keep him from pulling tricks on the street but he insists.

Then add a React client with Typescript to get them basic ass endpoints to display nicely.

It should give you a fuckload of perspective amongst the different tools and way we do things and might make you appreciate the differences in paradigms required(pro points for doing modular in c# dotnetcore using different classlibs for the major points of the application using some crazy pattern like the mediator pattern)

I would hire a mfker that throws all this shit at me on a portfolio on the spot.

Let's focus/master computer architectures, coding paradigms, datastructures. Everything comes after that...the problem with todays academics is that they are more focused on immediately deploying students to industry; theyre more focused on teaching specific frameworks and specific language instead of teaching how things work...i bet most students (at least in my country) are having troubles with endianess or encoding or even byte manipulation or what a thread is....If im going to be the teacher for example of an oop subject, ill let the student choose the language they want as long as the oop paradigm is intact ,it will be fine.. i dont friggin care whether you know vue or angular or swing if you dont even know what a callback is..

One problem for CS education is that the salaries for academia are so low compared to industry that if someone is even vaguely competent, they can at least double their income by working a 'real' job. Now this may be different at higher levels of colleges but generally those folks are such bullshitters they wouldn't last outside of academia.

As what to improve?
Depends if it's a research or vocational course.

For vocational; heavy on group projects, common tools, methodologies and architectures. All demonstrated in something like c#/java/python. And one project must have a web app (db, app layer and JavaScript from end)
Basic knowledge of algorithms, runtime analysis (O notation) and some data structures and you're an instahire.

For research, go wild. Deep dive into the math, algorithmic side. Read up lots of research papers. Try out different programming paradigms. You would aim for a career in academia, AI, quant finance etc...

I need to stop treating an OO language as if it were a procedural language.

I have the tendency to turn my code into GOTO spaghetti even though I'm semi-aware that objects exist and that they are distinct.
I still have to get used to this paradigm.

My Java professor always swore by the Plato paradigm, i.e.:
""Platonism" and its theory of Forms (or theory of Ideas) denies the reality of the material world, considering it only an image or copy of the real world.
According to this theory of Forms there are at least two worlds: the apparent world of concrete objects, grasped by the senses, which constantly changes, and an unchanging and unseen world of Forms or abstract objects, grasped by pure reason (λογική). which ground what is apparent." (wikipedia)

Thinking in objects, abstractions and metaphysics is not something I haven't done before (I've practiced it during Sociology and Ethics with the whole Pascal Leibniz, Newton and DesCartes approach) but it's certainly not easy.

Then there was my cool Programming 201 professor who said: "Don't worry man, just read those great UML, Program Design and GOF books and it will all become easy, like a story. It'll all make sense.
I mean, I've graduated, I've passed my Software Engineering I, II and III (hard as hell) but since I haven't focused on those theories and practices anymore, I've lost my touch.

It's definitely not easy for a novice programmer to transition between paradigms..

Lua has made my life simpler! 👐

This was initially a reply to a rant about politics ruining the industry. Most of it is subjective, but this is how I see the situation.

It's not gonna ruin the industry. It's gonna corrupt it completely and fatally, and it will continue developing as a toxic sticky goo of selfishness and a mandatory lack of security until it chokes itself.

Because if something can get corrupted, it will get corrupted. The only way for us as a species to make IT into a worthy industry is to screw it up countless times over the course of a hundred years until it's as stable and reliable as it can possibly be and there are as many paradigms and individually reasonable standards as there can possibly be.

Look around, see the ridiculus amount of stupid javascript frameworks, most of which is just shitcode upon vulnerabilities upon untested dependencies. Does this look to you like an uncorrupted industry?

The entire tech is rotting from the hundreds of thousands of lines of proprietary firmware and drivers through the overgrown startup scene to fucking Node.js, and how technologies created just a few decades ago are unacceptable from a security standpoint. Check your drivers and firmware if you can, I bet you can't even see the build dates of most firmware you run. You can't even know if it was built after any vulnerability regarding that specific microcontroller or whatever.

Would something like this work in chemical engineering? Hell no! This is how fucking garage meth labs work, not factories or research labs. You don't fucking sell people things without mandatory independent testing. That's how a proper industry works. Not today's IT.

Of course it's gonna go down in flames. Greed had corrupted the industry, and there's nothing to be done about it now but working as much as we can, because the faster we move the sooner we'll get stuck and the sooner we can start over on a more reasonable foundation.

Or rely on layers of abstraction and expect our code to be compilable on anything the future holds for us.

My apologize to everyone I told that functional programming is declarative.

It's actually imperative. Thank you @AndSoWeCode for figuring that out. I spent the whole day thinking about it.

Lisp is imperative. It's just different way to define the exact data transformations, and that's quite imperative.

On the other hand, HTML, CSS, config files and markup languages are declarative.

But writing the imperative program which is configured with declarative configs seems like great idea. Consider Apache web server and others.

My colleague sucks in all programming languages known to mankind, and he's one the best programmer I know.
Stop thinking "programming = programming language", languages are nothing ! Programming is about logic, architecture, paradigms, and that's about it.

Programming languages are the front-end of programming.

The worst thing about Java is, that it created a generation of coders, that think OOP is the opposite of FP.

aagh fuck college subjects. over my last 4 years and 7 sems in college, i must have said this many times : fuck college subjects. But Later i realize that if not anything, they are useful in government/private exams and interviews.

But Human computer Interaction? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS SUBJECT???
This has a human in it, a comp in it, and interaction in it: sounds like a cool subject to gain some robotics/ai designing info. But its syllabus, and the info available on the net , is worse than that weird alienoid hentai porn you watched one night( I know you did).

Like, here is a para from the research paper am reading, try to figure out even if its english is correct or not:
============================
Looking back over the history of HCI publications, we can see how our community has broadened intellectually from its original roots in engineering research and, later, cognitive science. The official title of
the central conference in HCI is “Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems” even though we usually call it “CHI”. Human factors for interaction originated in the desire to evaluate whether pilots
could make error-free use of the increasingly complex control systems of their planes under normal conditions and under conditions of stress. It was, in origin, a-theoretic and entirely pragmatic. The conference and field still reflects these roots not only in its name but also in the occasional use of simple performance metrics.

However, as Grudin (2005) documents, CHI is more dominated by a second wave brought by the cognitive revolution. HCI adopted its own amalgam of cognitive science ideas centrally captured in Card, Moran & Newell (1983), oriented around the idea that human information processing is deeply analogous to computational signal processing, and that the primary computer-human interaction task is enabling communication between the machine and the person. This cognitive-revolution-influenced approach to humans and technology is what we usually think of when we refer to the HCI field, and particularly that represented at the CHI conference. As we will argue below, this central idea has deeply informed the ways our field conceives of design and evaluation.

The value of the space opened up by these two paradigms is undeniable. Yet one consequence of the dominance of these two paradigms is the difficulty of addressing the phenomena that these paradigms mark as marginal.

=============================

I kind of don’t like OOP. There I said it.
Don’t get me wrong there are times I like using it. I don’t mind some of the features but I can rarely find times I want to use them.

It can be useful depending on the project but I mostly don’t use it and when I’m using Python I always feel like I have to? I know Python offers multiple types paradigms of programming to use but everyone’s making a big deal about OOP and I can rarely ever find uses for it. What I said for Python also goes for C++ I feel like I’m forced to do it. And I especially hate it in C++ fuck that.

I’d just like to use Python, and C++ without using it or if I do not have to use all the fancy features. And kinda wish Java and C# didn’t force OOP on you but I just don’t use all the fancy features in those languages (I don’t even use java but I’m mostly talking about C# for that one).

It’s not that I don’t know how to use it it’s that I can never find a use for any of the features or just don’t want to actually do it. Personally I only really see it shining in Game development, GUI development, and MAYBE network programming??

By all means I’m not trying to flame on OOP, I just wanted to throw my OOPinion (HA) on the matter. in fact you can tell me why you like it or dislike it. I’d like to discuss the topic with anyone.

Don’t fall for the “language A is better than language B” -it’s all just syntax (within the same paradigm). Learn higher concepts such as: data structures, abstraction, loops, variables, conditionals, functions.

Only then can you decide that your favourite language is better than anyone else’s...

Is it weird that I hold a high degree of respect for every sector in programming. When we talk about front-end, back-end in websites to the GUI support and logical end in desktop applications to cloud-based microservices, I respect clean, swift, and agile developers who who a structural mindset. For the founding fathers of assembly to high-programming languages like c all the way to high-high level programming languages like C#, JavaScript, Python, I respect them and thank them for their time and dedication in relatively stable libraries. I also thank the creators of OOP and FP as well as the developers that make great use of these paradigms. I come to realization that no one wants to fuck shit up; the great engineers of our past wanted to build some legit, non-trash programming tools, and we can't bash them for that. Respect, courteously critique, and build applications and programming tools to a standard that someone in the future would admire and be grateful for.

My programming paradigms unit has decided to explore different teaching/learning environments by creating lecture/workshops. Imagine a massive room with big projector screens at the front and smaller screens lined up against the wall at the back. The lecture room seats are designed around tables that are gradually elevated so it’s similar to a lecture hall but you’re sitting at discussion tables.

There’s the usual lecture with all the slides up around everywhere, there’s nice wheelie chairs and dimmer lighting... can’t tell if we’re at a conference or some awards night. Then all of a sudden, we’re coding in teams (tables) and uploading our work on to forums to discuss with the rest of the lecture hall. WHAAAAAAAT

Really different and quite enjoyable experience, there’s more than one tutor walking around to help, there’s mics for people to present.

Just sharing my new experience of forward learning environments that didn’t cause feelings of anxiousness for once or boredom. It was kind of mind blowing, wish it was always like this.

There is so much confusion in the world of programming right now, at least for me. I bet there’s only so many concepts going on and that these concepts are realized in certain ways. E.g. programming following certain paradigms and practices, also different workflows, containerization, agile, devops etc.

When searching for tutorials in different subjects it’s horribly aggravating to learn to use the tools. Not because they are inherently hard or bad in any way. There’s just so many different tutorials, some badly given, some that are great but which bring up to many foundations you already know so you find yourself getting bored to the point that you just stop listening. Many tools are used for so many use cases, sometimes overlapping each other, they use concepts to that you’ve heard hundreds of times before. Many times they want to do things in a special way so even if the concepts are the same you still need to fucking listen to the same old thing while learning how to write a command a slightly different way or how some tool is supposedly better than another.

I’m realizing that what I’m so sick of is the lack of TLDR information about new tools with some short description of how to use. Where you didn’t have to re-hear stuff you already knew or had heard so many times unless for a very good purpose, such as to show exactly how it’s done differently than another relevant tool. In a dream world the TLDR information could also remember my skills and remove the parts I didn’t need to know about any new tool.

Sitting and waiting for my programming paradigms lab... feeling really anxious...

How long does it take until you’re more confident with coding?

About to start writing a report for my programming languages course, I’m writing it over GoLang, If anybody has any good resources for any information on Go, let me know!

The report extends into the history, paradigms, features, memory management system, and anything else I can possibly find on this language. I can find some pretty decent references on the footer of Wikipedia, but I wanted to see if anybody who actually used Go had anything they’d like to share.

Thanks :)

If at first you don't succeed, try `rm -rf node_modules && npm install`

How do you guys learn? As we all know, we have a lot of stuff to learn in our field and it's growing and growing and growing. Other than the programming itself, we also have to learn the other stuff like algorithm designs, programming paradigms, big o notations, git, etc. And if you are working, you also need to learn the business rules your clients might have. And if you're unlucky with your job, your boss might even assign you to tasks with a programming language you have zero knowledge about.

So I was wondering, how do you guys balance your life, your family, your studying and your job? And how do you keep your head from exploding with information?

“so i know you folks are up against it with this deadline, but i made a burndown chart i’d like to go through” - every project manager

For those with hiring experience, or just informed opinions.

Candidate A:
1.5 years self-taught web development, primarily Javascript, but also Ruby & Golang
6 months commercial front end experience
Brucey Bonus: a significant fullstack personal project (deployed), plus lots of smaller projects. Has focused a lot on learning OOP and functional paradigm principles.

Candidate B:
As candidate A, but instead of a personal project, has made a couple dozen PRs on a big open source project (ie Mozilla’s debugger). They seem to have eschewed really dialling down into algorithms/paradigms, preferring to learn “in the wild”.

They both perform equally well in interview tests, and appear to be engaging, hardworking and approachable.

Which one do you pick, and why?

My boss can barely speak the native language (Spanish) he keeps using grammatical errors and whenever he’s got an idea of how stupid he is he tries to reach us with explaining SOLID and programming paradigms…
I’m so stuck in this 8h, it pays well, but 90% of the time is just acting to admire someone who barely knows how to declare a variable

I hate when people compare programming languages without understanding much, e.g. "Do they have semicolon or not?" "Lol there are lots of parentheses in Lisp". I even hear someone said "Haskell and PHP are alike because they both use the $ sign"

Come on, don't be that shallow, programming languages are much more then syntax and their logos. Learn more about their paradigms, ideologies, the reasons behind those designs.

I'm working at a big furniture store on the weekends to earn a little bit of extra money during my computer science bachelors.
The only annoyance is that the job has absolutely nothing to do with programming...
Should I quit to try get an internship as a developer? What holds me back is a real lack of confidence & experience. I wanna get more into programming but I'm also scared I would suck ass in a real company, although I have already worked with a lot of differnt languages & paradigms during my studies.
What to do devrant?

Any functional-first developers here? Any hate functional paradigms? Why?

Over the last week I've slowly grown to fucking hate IMAP and SMTP. You'd think after so many years we'd have come up with better servers to manage email but no we still rely on fucking decades old protocols that can't even batch requests.

To make things worse I need to attach to IMAP through node and that has been a nightmare. All the libraries suck ass and even the ones tailored towards Gmail don't work for Gmail because Google decided one day to fucking out the header at the bottom of some emails and split into mimeparts. Also why the fuck is fetching email asynchronous? There's no point at all since we requests are processed line by line in IMAP, and if the library actually supported sending asynchronous requests it wouldn't require a new object to be created for each request and allow only a single listener.

Also callbacks are antiquated for a while and it pisses me off that node hasn't updated their libraries i.e. TLS to support async/await. I've taken to "return await new Promise" where the resolve of the promise is passed as the callback, which let's me go from callback to promise to async/await. If anyone has any other ideas I'm all ears otherwise I might just rewrite their TLS library altogether...

And this is just IMAP. I wish browsers supported TLS sockets because I can already see a server struggling with several endpoints and users, it would be much easier to open a connection from the client since the relationship is essentially:

Client [N] --- [1] Server [1] --- [1] IMAP

And to make the legs of that N : N which would fix a lot of issues, I would have to open a new IMAP connection for every client, which is cool cause it could be serverless, but horrifying because that's so inefficient.

Honestly we need a new, unifying email protocol with modern paradigms...

.einstein .time{
position: relative;
}

I can run DSP on 4K raw video, but it’s Slack that’s eating up most of my CPU cores. I understand the practical reasons for Electron desktop apps, but it brings fast workstations to their knees and destroys UX paradigms. Run Slack, Discord and Gitter at the same time if you’re a true glutton for punishment. It’s out of control.

Week 2 of learning Scala in my Programming Paradigms class. Is it just me or is Scala plus IntelliJ the best thing ever?

So, I'm an engineer who believes that there isn't one solution that fits all (feel free to change my mind). I believe 100%, that a great engineer is someone who also encompasses the ability to make decisions appropriately on tools, paradigms, etc to solve any problem.

But, this rant is going out to the TDD fanatics.

I assume every piece or lines of code you write is/are towards solving a problem and it includes the code you write to test the "main" code you are about to write 😑

Question: Do you write a test to test the test you write to test the code you about to write? 😏

Since I started web dev work almost everything changed. Very paradigms of writing the code, structuring it. CSS is a totally different beast from what it used to be, vue made everything so much simpler in terms of state/view control. Alas, there's been no progress whatsoever on the most annoying part of development: Clients.
"But why it's not like in wordpress?" "How do I click buttons that are clearly labelled?" "We need to make it pop!" "But in wireframes it was a bit bigger!" "Why doesn't the preview show the exact view?"

Why do Haskell/Scala/Lisp/Clojure develops do crossfit?

Because they like their fitness how they like their programming paradigms: functional!

So what type of language is ABAP ? Is it procedural, with support for object-oriented paradigms ?